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Calling for Tax Increases from Those Who Aren't Paying for Them

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Is it really "fair" (in the liberal usage) for those who aren't paying the taxes or even worse, those who aren't even paying income taxes to call on tax increases?
 

Regicollis

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Is it fair for those who don't use social security to call for cuts or even abolishment of it?
 

washunut

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Is it fair for those who don't use social security to call for cuts or even abolishment of it?
Social Security is like paying intoan annuity. So I guess you have a point for those people who are promising not to live to the age of 65.
 

Aunt Spiker

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Is it fair for those who don't use social security to call for cuts or even abolishment of it?
Hunh?
Social Security is an option available for everyone. If someone dies - their surviving family can be given their SS benefits that they 'saved up'

Since those who are employed are the ones to pay into it - then they all have a say.

The government will never end it, though, because they depend on it too much - instead - they will just institute lengthier return notes that extend out how long they can wait before they have to pay someone back.
 
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liblady

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Is it really "fair" (in the liberal usage) for those who aren't paying the taxes or even worse, those who aren't even paying income taxes to call on tax increases?
everyone is fully entitled to their opinions, fairness is not an issue here.
 

Kushinator

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The government will never end it, though, because they depend on it too much - instead - they will just institute lengthier return notes that extend out how long they can wait before they have to pay someone back.

The government does not depend on SS, the people do.

Can you clarify the bold?
 

Aunt Spiker

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The government does not depend on SS, the people do.

Can you clarify the bold?
Yes - the government depends on any surplus from SS to buy up Government Holdings (it's required to, the SSA cannot keep any surplus, it must buy government holdings with it) the government then sells those holdings to fund whatever they see fit with an IOU type of a deal. . . and the government must pay that money back with interest.
(This actually becomes calculated into the intra-government debt portion of our national debt)

So is the government interest in the Social Security trust and other funds and trusts. It's not purely an interest to the people, it serves a 'government-loan' type of purpose.
 

Kushinator

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Yes - the government depends on any surplus from SS to buy up Government Holdings (it's required to, the SSA cannot keep any surplus, it must buy government holdings with it) the government then sells those holdings to fund whatever they see fit with an IOU type of a deal. . . and the government must pay that money back with interest.
(This actually becomes calculated into the intra-government debt portion of our national debt)
While FICA surpluses are converted into sovereign debt instruments, the reason/benefit of doing so is not strictly to "pay for government spending". All developed financial entities convert "cash" into safe assets to hedge against inflation.

So is the government interest in the Social Security trust and other funds and trusts. It's not purely an interest to the people, it serves a 'government-loan' type of purpose.
Do you have a source that confirms the cost of financing via FICA is less than issuing debt via auction? If not, you are merely speculating.
 

country

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everyone is fully entitled to their opinions, fairness is not an issue here.
Opinions are not the point. Is it fair for my neighbor down the street who does not work {could if he would] who pays no taxes to call for a tax increase? When he is called by a polster and asked if taxes should be raised, he will be the first to say YES. Doesn't affect him so why not? May get more food stamps or larger welfare check.
 

Lord Tammerlain

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Opinions are not the point. Is it fair for my neighbor down the street who does not work {could if he would] who pays no taxes to call for a tax increase? When he is called by a polster and asked if taxes should be raised, he will be the first to say YES. Doesn't affect him so why not? May get more food stamps or larger welfare check.
I bet he/she pays taxes

Property taxes, gasoline taxes, sales taxes, payroll taxes are all direct taxes that people pay. Federal income taxes are only portion of the possible taxes people will pay throughout their life
 

rathi

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If it fair for anyone who isn't a soldier to call for war if they don't have to fight? It is fair for me to complain about the BP oil spill if I live in California? We live in a inter-connected society, and our government reflects that. There is nothing wrong with calling for what you think is best for the nation, regardless of its personal effect on you.
 

I'm Supposn

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Is it really "fair" (in the liberal usage) for those who aren't paying the taxes or even worse, those who aren't even paying income taxes to call on tax increases?
CSC, taxpayers whose major income sources are described as due to investments predominate among our nation's greater income earners. The meaning of the commonly used word “investment” has a narrower meaning as it is used by economists. Economists describe most of the transactions involving but not limited to stocks, bonds or real-estate as all being transfers of wealth rather than investing. Transfers of wealth do not contribute to a nation’s gross domestic product, (GDP) because they do not themselves cause contributions the nation’s production of goods and services.

Most of the incomes that are derived from what is commonly described as investments were actually income derived from the transfer of wealth that did not substantially contribute to the nation’s GDP. Markets that promote the liquidity of wealth being transferred are an economic asset to the nation. To further describe such transactions as promoting a nation’s GDP is analogous to describing the fleas on a dog’s tail as causing the dog itself to wag back and forth.

Lower income earners do not have the benefit of the vast tax loop holes available only o wealthier “investors”. The maximum income tax rate is 35% and a good portion of the wealth spent by those upper income earners were not taxed due to special strokes for special folks or were imbedded within business expense account deductions.

Wage earners directly pay 7.65% beginning with the first dollar they earn. There are No exceptions. In addition we and our all our families pay for all taxes imbedded within everything we all purchase. Lower income earners are forced by necessity to spend everything they earn.

The people you describe as paying no taxes actually pay a great portion of their income for taxes. When median wage increases, all boats rise with the rising tide. It’s been clearly demonstrated that increasing stock market indexes do not cause increasing median wage.

I’m a proponent of free enterprise and a populist. The two concepts are not contradictory. Simply because capitalism makes common sense does not mean that what your message seems to imply is sensible.

Respectfully, Supposn
 

I'm Supposn

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While FICA surpluses are converted into sovereign debt instruments, the reason/benefit of doing so is not strictly to "pay for government spending". All developed financial entities convert "cash" into safe assets to hedge against inflation.

Do you have a source that confirms the cost of financing via FICA is less than issuing debt via auction? If not, you are merely speculating.
Golden boy, If FICA receipts set aside for the Social Security Administration are earning insufficient interest because the U.S. Treasury’s short changing them, then the “profit” must be going into our general federal budget. If they’re paying too much, than SSA is being credited with excessive reserves. All of this makes no effective difference to taxpayers. It doesn’t materially change our overall federal budget. It doesn’t cause our federal spending to increase.

The simple fact is that excessive revenue due to more than 12% payroll tax that’s dedicated to social security retirement is transferred to the U.S. Treasury in exchange for Treasury bonds and notes. What’s the problem with that? This is similar to discussions as to how many angels can dance upon the point of a pin? What’s the point of determining the answer?

Respectfully, Supposn
 
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