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Californian law change means pet shops can sell only rescued animals

Unfortunately the "wide brush" is just the right size for this problem and I don't mean to BLAME all pet shops either. Most probably have no idea about the conditions that their puppies were raised in or even where they come from. That does not absolve them of being a part of the puppy mill "cycle". If you think you know a better way to stop the cycle have at it but enforcement of cruelty laws has not and will not work. The truth is nearly all puppies sold at pet shops are from puppy mills. Not a few, not some, and not half....nearly ALL pet shop puppies are from places like this......

What is so wrong with puppy mills?**



https://www.thepuppymillproject.org/about-puppy-mills/
That's your opinion.

But like you, I don't want dogs in the street, bred badly, or euthanazed, so I'm going to withhold further debating this point and wish you a happy & prosperous new year.

BTW - Your Voltaire quote is great!
 
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My first poodle was a French Moyen (medium). It came with French papers (I was told my parents). It was given to me by a relative when I was a young boy. At that time I lived in a rough & tumble working-class immigrant neighborhood, deep in a very large American city. This also was a long time ago, when guys like Archie Bunker were popular. Most of our fathers & uncles worked on the docks or in factories or the railroad yards, proudly carrying their union cards in their wallet, swilling Old Style in the corner bar on Friday pay-days after work. Most of the dogs were guard dogs or other large breeds. In a neighborhood where we liked to fight to prove how tough we were, and some of my less socialized friends were in street gangs, I ended-up with this poodle puppy! And on top of it, my parents gave it a very feminine French name!

I'll tell you, I was besides myself. I didn't know how I'd ever save face walking it down the street. But within days, the thing really grew-on me and my friends. He was tough, fearless, athletic as hell, smart, and became part of my crowd. He was one of the guys. We never gave him a poodle-cut. I was way to proud & macho for that. We just puppy-cut him his entire life. I took him everywhere with me and my friends. As I went through high school, I had him hang-out with me at parties! Seriously, house parties, yard parties, parties in the park, I took him everywhere. And everyone liked him. They loved him!

I had him well into my twenties. And only then did I realize how much that dog meant to my friends in the neighborhood. As we left our teens and went our often separate ways in our twenties, I would occasionally run into one of my old friends from the neighborhood after not seeing them for a year or three. One of the first things they would say? How was "xxxx"? They wanted to know how "our dog" was. And they never said "dog" They always asked by his name! The damn feminine name!

Since then, I've always had at least one poodle. I've had others, in addition. But I can't live without a poodle.

Hah! In my city they made 5 as the delineation for being classified as a "puppy mill". That's 5 pups a year. God forbid your dame has a litter of 6! You can't sell them or give them away in the city limits. Maybe we should ship the 6th pup to Cali, where it's still legal (today)? It seems clear to me my city wanted to outlaw breeding.

I really appreciate your poodle story, can totally relate. We always kept ours in a puppy cut, but clean face, feet, and tail. People either love it or hate it. Always wondered how she would look in one of the show cuts, but never did it.

I would never classify 5 pups a year a puppy mill. That's crazy. Outlaw breeding? Wow.
 
I really appreciate your poodle story, can totally relate. We always kept ours in a puppy cut, but clean face, feet, and tail. People either love it or hate it. Always wondered how she would look in one of the show cuts, but never did it.

I would never classify 5 pups a year a puppy mill. That's crazy. Outlaw breeding? Wow.
Thanks!

Does your poodle have a full tail? Mine always have been docked by the breeder, but I will not accept that with my next.

It seems like a horrendous and stupid thing to do to the poor pup, and I'm at a loss to understand the rationale. Though I must admit the speed at which a docked tail "wags" is pretty darn amazing! My dog looks like she's vibrating the stubby little thing! :mrgreen:

BTW - I now prefer female dogs.
 
As usual for right wingers, you missed the entire point and began ranting about meat.:lol: This has nothing to with affluence it has to do with ridding ourselves of cruel greedy breeders who view our beloved dogs as products, undeserving of humane treatment or care. They use pet shops as "fronts" to market their "products" and cannot stay in business without them. Their animals are products of poor breeding and are often sick and pawning them off on unsuspecting consumers is a racket we can do without. These scum brought this on themselves and only someone like you would shed a tear for them. I look forward to all States following California's lead and ridding ourselves of this scourge once and for all.

Thank you for the emotive soap box speech, were you shaking your fist in the air about "the scourge" and "the scum" vexing our pet owners? Didn't you forget to rail about being crucified on "a cross of gold" (oh wait, that was another blowhard).

To the contrary, the "point" you and a few others have made cannot be missed, so naturally my expose' of the intellectually challenged was quite easy. However, that you are intellectually unable to grasp the brutal dissection of these points by analogous principle is as unfortunate as it is pitied.

No one is disputing that part of this is about punishing something called "cruel greedy breeders" , or that sometimes their animals are poorly bred or cared for. No one is disputing that breeders who commit fraud ("a racket") is a supplier we can do without. But what some of us, including myself, are objecting too is how this law goes about it. For many reasons it is both unjust and dumb as dirt.

First, you have not shown that it is morally wrong to breed animals for sale (among those who have not been in a coma for their lifetime, that is called "animal husbandry", "ranching", "farming", etc.)

Second, you have not shown there is anything morally wrong in purchasing animal products for sale; be it for food consumption, pets, furs, recreation, or labor.

Third, the only general moral prohibition often (but not universally) recognized is that people who breed and sell unbutchered animals, should treat them humanely before they are sold.

Four, if they don't, the just way to deal with people who treat animals inhumanely an otherwise moral pursuit, is to regulate them, and for specific transgressions, fine or prosecute them. The principle of justice that the guilty, not the innocent, are eligible for punishment is likely as old as the bible, if not older.

Five, it should not be a surprise that is how other animal products businesses, when regulated, are treated: licenses, inspections, fines, and if sufficiently egregious, prosecution.

Six, "Inconveniencing buyers" makes as little sense as banning all meat and poultry sales in retail food outlets in order to punish inhumane mid-western cattle or poultry producers. It is NOT moral or just ban all retail consumers (who did nothing) from purchases for the sin acts of some product suppliers.

Seven, it's difficult to see how such blanket bans will change the behavior of breeders - what incentive is there to change IF they are going to lose some market share anyway. If anything, it will encourage further "cost-cutting" inhumane treatment.

Eight, in the meantime, the market for consumers of modest means for pet shop animals will be reduced to rescue mutts, most of whom in our local shelters are pit bull hybrids. Those of greater means, on the other hand, will buy from local specialty breeders that the majority cannot afford.

Finally, as is usual, the law of unintended consequences will help the affluent, restrict the choice of the non-affluent, and solve nothing in securing humane treatment.

The WHOLE LAW is a testimony to the usual thoughtless virtue-posturing in Sacramento, utterly oblivious to justice, moral means, or consequences.
 
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Oh no, not you too? It seems I'm fighting a losing battle here ...

I have never regretted one rescue or pound puppy we have had...

One plus I don't think anyone has noted is normally the rescue people will disclose any issues with the animal since they tend to be foster parents for a while.

Our rescues included a psycho Dalmatian raised in too small a space. Two runt Dalmatians throw out of a car. One three legged Tiajuna mix. An over the hill Husky mix. One ugly but sweet SharPei hound mix and others.

All quirks were known before we took them in.
 
I have never regretted one rescue or pound puppy we have had...

One plus I don't think anyone has noted is normally the rescue people will disclose any issues with the animal since they tend to be foster parents for a while.

Our rescues included a psycho Dalmatian raised in too small a space. Two runt Dalmatians throw out of a car. One three legged Tiajuna mix. An over the hill Husky mix. One ugly but sweet SharPei hound mix and others.

All quirks were known before we took them in.
Well I'm surely not going to do anything but praise adopters. You're doing a good & noble thing, and you have my thanks & respect. :thumbs:

BTW, I have fostered, which turned into my keeping the animal. I don't see how foster families can handle loving and raising the dog, then seeing it go. I couldn't do it!
 
Well I'm surely not going to do anything but praise adopters. You're doing a good & noble thing, and you have my thanks & respect. :thumbs:

BTW, I have fostered, which turned into my keeping the animal. I don't see how foster families can handle loving and raising the dog, then seeing it go. I couldn't do it!

Some must. They run the risk of overcrowding their conditions.

Sad story. There was a woman in the San Diego area running a Rottweiler rescue. She died and suddenly her Rottweilers and others had to be farmed out to other fosters...

Silver lining. Ends up we adopted one of her non-Rottweiller dogs...

I always felt good about that.
 
Legitimate breeders do not sell their animals through pet shops. This has been noted several times in this thread.

Nor will they ever under this new law.
 
Why are inventory transfers not financially viable in the pet industry?

You think a pet shop is going to spend hundreds of dollars to move an animal to make a lot less than that?
 
There’s a group called Project Freedom Ride that transfers dogs from high kill shelters in Texas to the Pacific Northwest. It was started by a 6 year old boy and his mom. They’ve transferred over 1300 dogs over the last few years and they’ve recently moved to Georgia and are trying to start transfers from there. Some of the rescue organizations around the Seattle are have also received animals from San Bernadino, but I don’t know how often they do that.

I think this would be a different thing. These are for profit businesses and I don't think they will spend money to move animals hundreds of miles to another state just to sell them.
 
Some must. They run the risk of overcrowding their conditions.

Sad story. There was a woman in the San Diego area running a Rottweiler rescue. She died and suddenly her Rottweilers and others had to be farmed out to other fosters...

Silver lining. Ends up we adopted one of her non-Rottweiller dogs...

I always felt good about that.
And you should! :thumbs:
 
Nor will they ever under this new law.

Which is besides the point of the law. Legitimate breeders would not be fine with placing their valuable pups in cages in retail outlets and there is no reason to think that would change in the future.
 
Which is a good thing. Legitimate breeders would not be fine with placing their valuable pups in cages in retail outlets.

It's a good thing that "legitimate breeders" will never be legally able to sell to a retail store? LOL... there goes the excuse for your crusade against illegitimate breeders. My advice, when you pull the trigger make sure when aiming the barrel is pointed forward.

PS - What "legitimate breeders" might do under changed circumstances is up to them, what we do know they CANT do is supply humanely raised puppies to retail outlets.

By the way, are you aware that the American Kennel Club opposed this legislation? That should at least give you pause.
 
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It's a good thing that "legitimate breeders" will never be legally able to sell to a retail store? LOL... there goes the excuse for your crusade against illegitimate breeders. My advice, when you pull the trigger make sure when aiming the barrel is pointed forward.

My "crusade" has lost no credibility. You are so enamored of your own opinions you rarely see daylight. You did respond prior to my editing...which changed "it's a good thing" to "It's besides the point." Legitimate breeders sell privately, and with the help of breed associations and the AKC. They do not put their animals in the hands of others for retail purposes.
They're concerned with the home the animal will move on to, and most will take back (and in some cases demand to take back) any puppy and/or grown dog that cannot be cared for by the new owner. That is how "legitimate" breeders behave.

And guess where you can aim that barrel? ;)
 
I think this would be a different thing. These are for profit businesses and I don't think they will spend money to move animals hundreds of miles to another state just to sell them.

I agree. PFR gets their animals from shelters and as far as I know they don't work with any retail pet stores.
 
This is how I see it: Every quality day for a dog or a cat is a win, every not quality day is a loss, and very often putting an end to the loses by killing them is the right call....it is the humane thing to do.
 
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