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California, Our Very own Third World Country

falcata said:
Well isn't all of America a class society?

I know California is a big and rich place, but is it really much different than anywhere else here?
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In San Antonio you can buy a McMansion for 250K, for 350K you can get land, a nice house... and be within 30 min of the City as a whole.
 
truthatallcost said:
And median still isn't average, like another poster told you multiple times.
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try to keep up and try to be honest. doesnt matter median or average (mentioned once) Cali numbers are well ahead the rest of the country. in other words the OP didnt do any homework.
 
katzgar said:
try to keep up and try to be honest. doesnt matter median or average (mentioned once) Cali numbers are well ahead the rest of the country. in other words the OP didnt do any homework.
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And the cost of living in Cali is, in relation to the rest of the country? Unemployment? Illegal immigration? All key factors. Why? If a significant percent of the population is undocumented, then they don't factor into these numbers, thus allowing them to be artificially inflated. While pay is higher than the rest of the country by, let's say, 20%, it doesn't matter is the cost of living is higher, as a percent, than the rest of the country.
 
calamity said:
We have million dollar homes in my area, but you can tell they are million dollar homes. This million dollar bungalow in San Jose

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would sell for about $150K in So Ohio, $200K tops if it's here by the woods.
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So California's market caters to richer rich people.

My issue is that you bring up the example of great disparity in the society of California, which is notably extravagant, but seem to imply that other areas of the U.S are considerably different in the nature of their economic disparity.

Housing and property is a massive component of this and is well emphasized in your article, but I think your characterization of it as a "third world country" ignores that there are disadvantaged people all over the United States. I guess situations like this make it more obvious, but it seems disingenuous when in full consideration.

Sorry if this is too much of a digression.
 
falcata said:
So California's market caters to richer rich people.

My issue is that you bring up the example of great disparity in the society of California, which is notably extravagant, but seem to imply that other areas of the U.S are considerably different in the nature of their economic disparity.

Housing and property is a massive component of this and is well emphasized in your article, but I think your characterization of it as a "third world country" ignores that there are disadvantaged people all over the United States. I guess situations like this make it more obvious, but it seems disingenuous when in full consideration.

Sorry if this is too much of a digression.
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No worries.

I've been to all the states except Alaska, lived in 6 and worked for extended periods of time in 12. No state is as bizarrely third-world like California. It's a whole state that best resembles Manhattan of the 80's. Super rich surrounded by dirt poor. I don't know any other state that is like that. Sure there are poor people in other states, but usually not right at the door step of the super rich.
 
falcata said:
Well isn't all of America a class society?

I know California is a big and rich place, but is it really much different than anywhere else here?
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Tremendously so. California is incredibly expensive to live there.
I read once in the Army Times where a young boy hanged himself in the 80's because his Dad was stationed at Ft. Ord and Dad could barely afford food. His military Cost Of Living Allowance (COLA) did not do much at all. So one day the kid wrote a note and hanged himself. saying with out me around, there will be more food top feed his two small sisters. It was completely tragic. his Dad was not a senior NCO, but an E-4, I believe.

I had to bribe the housing office ladies to get into base housing when I was stationed in San Diego. Until then i had to have my family live in Tucson with my wife's parents.

A one bedroom apartment, GENERALLY costs about $700 to $900 in most places I have lived in this country (AZ, TX, NE, SD, VA, NC, TN). In Frisco it will run you a bout $1200 to $1500. In San Diego it will be about $1000 to $1200.
 
katzgar said:
I know family income average in Cali is $61,320 and the national average is $53,291. $61,320 is bigger than $53,290. did you know that?
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A very deceptive number. California has a very high number of multimillionaires and billionaires that skew the average by quite a bit.

Plus you have all the migrant workers that nobody knows how little they are paid because they do not pay taxes and are most likely not included in those averages. Plus you have to add in all the millions of servants (slaves) doing the yard work, cooking, cleaning, and tending to the rich that work for less than minimum wage and pay no taxes who are here illegally and are not a part of those averages. Plus what about the millions of illegals who live 10 to a house have no job and survive on drugs, guns, stolen property, or working for cash no receipt. Nobody knows how much they make or do not make since every transaction is cash. Sure if you look at all the legitimate workers tax returns and come up with an average it looks great on paper but in reality millions are on welfare and average 63,000 a year when added in with all the rich. Are the millions of illegals working for less than minimum wage getting paid cash and not filling out any tax forms being averaged into that $61,320.
 
KevinKohler said:
And the cost of living in Cali is, in relation to the rest of the country? Unemployment? Illegal immigration? All key factors. Why? If a significant percent of the population is undocumented, then they don't factor into these numbers, thus allowing them to be artificially inflated. While pay is higher than the rest of the country by, let's say, 20%, it doesn't matter is the cost of living is higher, as a percent, than the rest of the country.
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your post is totally void of facts
 
PIPEWRENCH said:
A very deceptive number. California has a very high number of multimillionaires and billionaires that skew the average by quite a bit.

Plus you have all the migrant workers that nobody knows how little they are paid because they do not pay taxes and are most likely not included in those averages. Plus you have to add in all the millions of servants (slaves) doing the yard work, cooking, cleaning, and tending to the rich that work for less than minimum wage and pay no taxes who are here illegally and are not a part of those averages. Plus what about the millions of illegals who live 10 to a house have no job and survive on drugs, guns, stolen property, or working for cash no receipt. Nobody knows how much they make or do not make since every transaction is cash. Sure if you look at all the legitimate workers tax returns and come up with an average it looks great on paper but in reality millions are on welfare and average 63,000 a year when added in with all the rich. Are the millions of illegals working for less than minimum wage getting paid cash and not filling out any tax forms being averaged into that $61,320.
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do you have any facts?
 
katzgar said:
do you have any facts?
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First hand information from the servants who have never filled out a tax form or census form for fear of being deported. It is a fact that California has the most millionaires and billionaires of the 50 states. That amount of money will skew any average wage comparison. California also has millions of undocumented illegal aliens that nobody can accurately say how much they earn each year. Those millions undocumented added to the highest number of millionaires and billionaires clearly skew any average wages. The reason their servants are illegal aliens is because the wealthy in California won't even pay minimum wage to people doing work for them. Nobody knows for sure how many there are or how poorly they are paid but the people who actually see the travesty first hand. As a contractor who actually worked in these homes I do have first hand knowledge that no bean counter sitting in an office in another state has looking at tax returns and census forms. The poor are never properly counted or acknowledged when these incomes are presented. If everyone in California is making so much money why is the welfare so high as well as the homeless?
 
OpportunityCost said:
Go look around the area in and near the coast. 850K for 1400 square feet 2bdr is not uncommon at all, if you can even find a footprint that low. 1M for 3bdr is a lot more the norm and 3000 sq feet? 1.5 mill as a minimum.

California and the bay area in particular, is unreal on real estate.
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Thats called supply and demand.
 
California also has millions of undocumented illegal aliens that nobody can accurately say how much they earn each year. Those millions undocumented added to the highest number of millionaires and billionaires clearly skew any average wages.

Judging by the latest San Fransisco homeless problem news,, Not a whole lot of them illegal's are working,,

Large amounts of disposed needles on the street..

Legal to urinate just about anyplace you want..

the list goes on and on..

And the man on the street want's it fixed,, Just as long as he doe not have to help...

djl
 
katzgar said:
try to keep up
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:lamo

Some people are so terribly behind in a race they actually think they're ahead. You're dismissive of facts, you do not address counter arguments, you don't even seem to understand why average is a bad metric rather than median. Then you presume to (wrongly) tell people they haven't done their homework? What a terrible debater...
 
PIPEWRENCH said:
First hand information from the servants who have never filled out a tax form or census form for fear of being deported. It is a fact that California has the most millionaires and billionaires of the 50 states. That amount of money will skew any average wage comparison. California also has millions of undocumented illegal aliens that nobody can accurately say how much they earn each year. Those millions undocumented added to the highest number of millionaires and billionaires clearly skew any average wages. The reason their servants are illegal aliens is because the wealthy in California won't even pay minimum wage to people doing work for them. Nobody knows for sure how many there are or how poorly they are paid but the people who actually see the travesty first hand. As a contractor who actually worked in these homes I do have first hand knowledge that no bean counter sitting in an office in another state has looking at tax returns and census forms. The poor are never properly counted or acknowledged when these incomes are presented. If everyone in California is making so much money why is the welfare so high as well as the homeless?
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welfare isnt high
 
Lachean said:
:lamo

Some people are so terribly behind in a race they actually think they're ahead. You're dismissive of facts, you do not address counter arguments, you don't even seem to understand why average is a bad metric rather than median. Then you presume to (wrongly) tell people they haven't done their homework? What a terrible debater...
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you are a foolish debater. you make assertions with no facts and dont get that when the results are the same median vs average doesnt matter. try to use reason and not name calling.
 
bmr528 said:
California also has millions of undocumented illegal aliens that nobody can accurately say how much they earn each year. Those millions undocumented added to the highest number of millionaires and billionaires clearly skew any average wages.

Judging by the latest San Fransisco homeless problem news,, Not a whole lot of them illegal's are working,,

Large amounts of disposed needles on the street..

Legal to urinate just about anyplace you want..

the list goes on and on..

And the man on the street want's it fixed,, Just as long as he doe not have to help...

djl
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a bunch of anecdotal stuff is meaningless
 
I've got a great liberal idea for California that will solve all of it's problems. Let's take from the rich in California and give it to the poor in California.
 
katzgar said:
a bunch of anecdotal stuff is meaningless
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Call it what you want,, It's not doctors and lawyers p%^$ing in the streets,,, Well actually it IS San Fran.. so maybe they are..

djl
 
bmr528 said:
Call it what you want,, It's not doctors and lawyers p%^$ing in the streets,,, Well actually it IS San Fran.. so maybe they are..

djl
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there are about 6,600 homeless in SF last count. you are trying to make something out of nothing. this entire thread is a non issue.
 
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