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But I Thought The Government Was Shut Down?

ChezC3

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So, the government is shut down and in Obama's and the Dems rabid fury, they somehow find it logical to close the national parks which require maybe a handful of custodial staff, as it is just land that people walk on and look at the pretty monuments and other vistas.

In replacement of those few custodians, what do they do? They spend money, which they don't have, remember the government is shutdown, to place guards, fences, and various other barricades up keeping the American people, the PUBLIC off of public land..


Park Service Workers Erect WWII Barricade | The Weekly Standard


Obama and the Dems should really be ashamed of themselves.
 

Velvet Elvis

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Obama and the Dems should really be ashamed of themselves.

Why would they be ashamed? Do you really think they care what their servants think? Do you really think the "citizens" are in their best interests? This is nothing but a power struggle among elites.
 

ChezC3

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Why would they be ashamed? Do you really think they care what their servants think? Do you really think the "citizens" are in their best interests? This is nothing but a power struggle among elites.

I try not to let my cynicism get the better of me...
 

Republic Now!

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They did shut down and it can be felt everywhere. For example, in Colorado, 8 roads and bridges have crumbled since the shutdown, killing hundreds.
 

ChezC3

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Why would they be ashamed? Do you really think they care what their servants think? Do you really think the "citizens" are in their best interests? This is nothing but a power struggle among elites.

I will concede though, after deeper reflection that this is a shining example that there are two separate entities taking up the space of this country

You have the People of the United States and you have the United States Government.

The US government as is shown by what Obama has done here is separate from the American People, the public. For how could the government of the US deny access to public lands, which in no way jeopardizes the safety or security of the US, if those lands where indeed public and the members of government truly public servants.

This means they are not publicly owned they are owned by the government and the government is not a public institution because it is controlling the accessibility of this land and preventing the public's use. See?

A clear and distinct line is drawn between what is public and what is government.

Therefore, the people of the United States are being held as subjects to the United States Government.
 

penn1954

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I will concede though, after deeper reflection that this is a shining example that there are two separate entities taking up the space of this country

You have the People of the United States and you have the United States Government.

The US government as is shown by what Obama has done here is separate from the American People, the public. For how could the government of the US deny access to public lands, which in no way jeopardizes the safety or security of the US, if those lands where indeed public and the members of government truly public servants.

This means they are not publicly owned they are owned by the government and the government is not a public institution because it is controlling the accessibility of this land and preventing the public's use. See?

A clear and distinct line is drawn between what is public and what is government.

Therefore, the people of the United States are being held as subjects to the United States Government.

Sad but I'm afraid you're right !!:cry:
 

specklebang

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I will concede though, after deeper reflection that this is a shining example that there are two separate entities taking up the space of this country

You have the People of the United States and you have the United States Government.

The US government as is shown by what Obama has done here is separate from the American People, the public. For how could the government of the US deny access to public lands, which in no way jeopardizes the safety or security of the US, if those lands where indeed public and the members of government truly public servants.

This means they are not publicly owned they are owned by the government and the government is not a public institution because it is controlling the accessibility of this land and preventing the public's use. See?

A clear and distinct line is drawn between what is public and what is government.

Therefore, the people of the United States are being held as subjects to the United States Government.

"Therefore, the people of the United States are being held as subjects to the United States Government." - you mean to say you didn't realize this before? You though that as a citizen you had the same rights and powers as the government? Try spying on the NSA and let me know how that works out:)
 

ChezC3

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"Therefore, the people of the United States are being held as subjects to the United States Government." - you mean to say you didn't realize this before? You though that as a citizen you had the same rights and powers as the government? Try spying on the NSA and let me know how that works out:)

Well, the NSA is a bit out of my scope, but I do always have one eye on the CPD...;)
 

Deuce

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So, the government is shut down and in Obama's and the Dems rabid fury, they somehow find it logical to close the national parks which require maybe a handful of custodial staff, as it is just land that people walk on and look at the pretty monuments and other vistas.

In replacement of those few custodians, what do they do? They spend money, which they don't have, remember the government is shutdown, to place guards, fences, and various other barricades up keeping the American people, the PUBLIC off of public land..


Park Service Workers Erect WWII Barricade | The Weekly Standard


Obama and the Dems should really be ashamed of themselves.

Funny how you place no blame on the people who actually caused the shutdown.
 

Cyrylek

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They did shut down and it can be felt everywhere. For example, in Colorado, 8 roads and bridges have crumbled since the shutdown, killing hundreds.

Here around Seattle, cedar trees are falling, most salmon is floating down the river belly up, and people on the streets keep walking into walls, deprived of the federal guidance.

A special UN commission is about to release a rigorously scientific report that confirms what most of our friends on the Left knew all along: there's a 50:50 chance that the government shutdown will result in irreversible unraveling of the very Fabric of the Universe.
 

ChezC3

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Funny how you place no blame on the people who actually caused the shutdown.

I did, see the part where I pointed out Obama and the dems?
 

Visbek

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So, the government is shut down and in Obama's and the Dems rabid fury, they somehow find it logical to close the national parks which require maybe a handful of custodial staff....
The National Parks Service has around 22,000 employees, and around 220,000 volunteers. Keeping the parks closed requires a fraction of that staff.

Thanks for taking an entire department for granted. I'm sure that never happens.

Oh, and despite the shutdown, there are a small handful of government employees who are either being paid or are working anyway.


how could the government of the US deny access to public lands, which in no way jeopardizes the safety or security of the US, if those lands where indeed public and the members of government truly public servants.
Because the government, particularly the National Park Service, are stewards of the lands held in trust by the government, for the people.

Sadly, left to their own devices, the public would wreck the national parks. At a minimum, the average person has no training in proper land management, and do not always consider how their actions can damage the often fragile ecosystems of those parks. The NPS provides critical guidance for public access to park lands.

The constituents of the park, by the way, are not just the people who are alive right now. It's also being protected for future generations.

Oh, and park management does not invert the relationship between the public and the government, any more than any other regulation or law. The public still has the rights to change the laws and/or the NPS as we see fit.
 

ChezC3

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The National Parks Service has around 22,000 employees, and around 220,000 volunteers. Keeping the parks closed requires a fraction of that staff.

Thanks for taking an entire department for granted. I'm sure that never happens.

Oh, and despite the shutdown, there are a small handful of government employees who are either being paid or are working anyway.

Being paid to prevent public use.


Because the government, particularly the National Park Service, are stewards of the lands held in trust by the government, for the people.

Which has been demonstrated untrue as the government is preventing the public's useage.
Sadly, left to their own devices, the public would wreck the national parks. At a minimum, the average person has no training in proper land management, and do not always consider how their actions can damage the often fragile ecosystems of those parks. The NPS provides critical guidance for public access to park lands.

This is true, however, Ranger Rick at the Forest Station isn't omniscient and doesn't know what's going on at all the parks all the time, further it is a presumption that should there be no one to "instruct" the people that they'll be sure to raze these parks to the ground. Thirdly, we are speaking of very specific parks here, you are purposefully ignoring this and using a broad brush stroke in an attempt to discredit a very specific point.
The constituents of the park, by the way, are not just the people who are alive right now. It's also being protected for future generations.

Another example of screw what the people want now, the future is what matters. And government knows best.

Oh, and park management does not invert the relationship between the public and the government, any more than any other regulation or law. The public still has the rights to change the laws and/or the NPS as we see fit.

I never said park management did. The relationship between the government and the park management is that the latter is a member of the former. The relationship between the People and the Government is becoming clearly an example of Lord and Subject. If it weren't, than the access to public lands, in the context of what I'm arguing would not be prohibited.

You're not gonna start a forest fire in the National Mall...
 

Mason66

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Funny how you place no blame on the people who actually caused the shutdown.

He did, he said Obama and the dems.
 

poweRob

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I did, see the part where I pointed out Obama and the dems?

OKay... I'm willing to slow walk through this...

Please explain how Obama and the dems are responsible for shutting down the government. Should be an easy answer for you seeing how it's such an easy talking point.
 

Mason66

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The National Parks Service has around 22,000 employees, and around 220,000 volunteers. Keeping the parks closed requires a fraction of that staff.

Thanks for taking an entire department for granted. I'm sure that never happens.

Oh, and despite the shutdown, there are a small handful of government employees who are either being paid or are working anyway.



Because the government, particularly the National Park Service, are stewards of the lands held in trust by the government, for the people.

Sadly, left to their own devices, the public would wreck the national parks. At a minimum, the average person has no training in proper land management, and do not always consider how their actions can damage the often fragile ecosystems of those parks. The NPS provides critical guidance for public access to park lands.

The constituents of the park, by the way, are not just the people who are alive right now. It's also being protected for future generations.

Oh, and park management does not invert the relationship between the public and the government, any more than any other regulation or law. The public still has the rights to change the laws and/or the NPS as we see fit.

If like you say tehre are 220,000 volunteers, then they can handle things until the governemtn is back up and running. They don't draw a salary so it will cost nothing to have them there,

Why hasn't that been used as an option?
 

Visbek

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If like you say tehre are 220,000 volunteers, then they can handle things until the governemtn is back up and running.
1) The critical jobs aren't handled by volunteers.
2) Volunteers need coordinators. The coordinators are NPS staffers who are furloughed.
3) Park Rangers, who handle law enforcement in the parks, are staff. Many are furloughed.

The government manages the national parks, and they need full-time NPS staffers to do it. Thus when the government shuts down, so do the parks.
 

ChezC3

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OKay... I'm willing to slow walk through this...

Please explain how Obama and the dems are responsible for shutting down the government. Should be an easy answer for you seeing how it's such an easy talking point.

Slow walk, fast walk, foxtrot, whatever you fancy...

The Senate rejected the House's bill, therefore the Senate is to blame for this. The Senate doesn't get to say, "House, here is the bill we want you to send us" that's not how this goes nor should anyone want that.

Was that slow enough for ya?
 

Linc

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Obama should stop paying Congress just like Quinn did to the General Assembly in our dear state.
and yes, the sky is falling...
 

Linc

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They will if the right-wing militias seize the opportunity with the shutdown.
A fitting present to the memory of Breitbart on the first anniversary of losing him.
i wonder if people are dropping dead in the streets again, as they did in the 95 shutdown?
 

iguanaman

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So, the government is shut down and in Obama's and the Dems rabid fury, they somehow find it logical to close the national parks which require maybe a handful of custodial staff, as it is just land that people walk on and look at the pretty monuments and other vistas.

In replacement of those few custodians, what do they do? They spend money, which they don't have, remember the government is shutdown, to place guards, fences, and various other barricades up keeping the American people, the PUBLIC off of public land..


Park Service Workers Erect WWII Barricade | The Weekly Standard


Obama and the Dems should really be ashamed of themselves.

Maybe you think our National parks and monuments are not worth protecting but many would disagree. Why do you hate America?
Those guards still get paid because they are essential personnel and not covered by the shutdown. Would you rather we leave the Washington Monument to the graffiti artists or terrorists?
 

ChezC3

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Obama should stop paying Congress just like Quinn did to the General Assembly in our dear state.

I agree. Obama, the Senate, the House, the SCOTUS, all of them should lose their pay, and when I say lose it I mean LOSE IT, no retroactive nonsense...
 

ChezC3

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Maybe you think our National parks and monuments are not worth protecting but many would disagree. Why do you hate America?

Where you got this I haven't a clue...
 
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