• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

But God Didn’t Say That: Religious Community Members Talk God and Abortion

Samantha Bee has done a segment on her show that basically says what I have been saying for decades.

Please watch this
Fun stuff indeed. Thanks for the link.

One thing that has always sort of surprised me is the number of people who claim biblical adherence in their fight against abortion, when they really don't seem to grasp the bible's recurring message at all. They'll pick a single quote, misinterpret and contort it beyond all recognition, and somehow conclude from it that abortion is murder, totally ignoring the books repeated message - which is that the soul enters the body with the first breath, and exits the body with the last. This is such a recurring biblical theme that there are more than 30 references to it, starting right from Genesis onward.

Many decades ago, while studying some forms of meditation, I wanted to do some research on how often the ancient religious texts around the world treated the process of breathing, as most meditations begin with a focus on the breath. Did any of them recognize, for example, how breathing can connect otherwise separate physiological systems within the body?

When I got around to studying the bible, I took a biblical concordance and looked up the words breath, breathe, breathing and breathed, and discovered that those words appear approximately 68 or 70 times throughout the bible. In pursuit of my meditation investigation, I took the time to look up each and every chapter and verse referenced therein, and discovered that roughly half of them - more than 30 - referred directly to the soul entering and leaving the body with the first and last breath respectively. And yet the allegedly bible adherent "christians" in this country don't seem to recognize the content of their own book. Go figure.

Since that time, I've learned a lot of other scientific aspects of the properties of zygotes, embryos, and fetuses, and it's quite clear that, while a nascent human body is no doubt developing in the womb, the lights may be on, but there's nobody home. "WE" - all of us - don't "arrive" until the day of our birth. That just seems to be the way it is.

Happy President's Day!
 
I agree.

When the so called “ religious right “ mostly Catholics and a few Evangelical groups try to ban abortion they are restricting the religious rights of other groups including the Jewish Religious, Muslim religious, and of the mainline Protestant religious.

The Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice formed a Coalition back in 1973 to help make sure the Catholic religion did not overturn Roe v Wade and take our Religious Liberty away from us.

They agreed that :

State and federal laws must ensure all people the medical, economic, and educational resources necessary for healthy families and communities equipped to nurture children in peace and love.

Religious Liberty
Good policy allows people of all religions to follow their own faiths and consciences in their own lives. In reproductive health, rights and justice, we define religious liberty as the right of a woman to make thoughtful decisions in private consultation with her doctor, her family and her faith. The religious beliefs of others should not interfere.
 
She kills me. Nobody better than her/she/Bee.
 
I agree.

When the so called “ religious right “ mostly Catholics and a few Evangelical groups try to ban abortion they are restricting the religious rights of other groups including the Jewish Religious, Muslim religious, and of the mainline Protestant religious.

The Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice formed a Coalition back in 1973 to help make sure the Catholic religion did not overturn Roe v Wade and take our Religious Liberty away from us.

They agreed that :

State and federal laws must ensure all people the medical, economic, and educational resources necessary for healthy families and communities equipped to nurture children in peace and love.

Religious Liberty
Good policy allows people of all religions to follow their own faiths and consciences in their own lives. In reproductive health, rights and justice, we define religious liberty as the right of a woman to make thoughtful decisions in private consultation with her doctor, her family and her faith. The religious beliefs of others should not interfere.
Yep. As I have always said; my religion is fine with abortion.

Catholics and evengelical christians need to stop treading on my rights.
 
Fun stuff indeed. Thanks for the link.

One thing that has always sort of surprised me is the number of people who claim biblical adherence in their fight against abortion, when they really don't seem to grasp the bible's recurring message at all. They'll pick a single quote, misinterpret and contort it beyond all recognition, and somehow conclude from it that abortion is murder, totally ignoring the books repeated message - which is that the soul enters the body with the first breath, and exits the body with the last. This is such a recurring biblical theme that there are more than 30 references to it, starting right from Genesis onward.

Many decades ago, while studying some forms of meditation, I wanted to do some research on how often the ancient religious texts around the world treated the process of breathing, as most meditations begin with a focus on the breath. Did any of them recognize, for example, how breathing can connect otherwise separate physiological systems within the body?

When I got around to studying the bible, I took a biblical concordance and looked up the words breath, breathe, breathing and breathed, and discovered that those words appear approximately 68 or 70 times throughout the bible. In pursuit of my meditation investigation, I took the time to look up each and every chapter and verse referenced therein, and discovered that roughly half of them - more than 30 - referred directly to the soul entering and leaving the body with the first and last breath respectively. And yet the allegedly bible adherent "christians" in this country don't seem to recognize the content of their own book. Go figure.

Since that time, I've learned a lot of other scientific aspects of the properties of zygotes, embryos, and fetuses, and it's quite clear that, while a nascent human body is no doubt developing in the womb, the lights may be on, but there's nobody home. "WE" - all of us - don't "arrive" until the day of our birth. That just seems to be the way it is.

Happy President's Day!


I used to be a very devout christian. I was part of the original Jesus Freak movement in the early 70s. I left the christian faith in the late 70s.

I read the Bible from cover to cover many times. I know what is in that book.

I have posted many times that the Bible says that life starts with the first breath taken through the nose yet the very devout Christians reject the words of the book they claim to be their life guide.

It's very illogical and crazy to me.

I don't understand how people can scream freedom in one breath then work as hard as they can to take freedom from people who don't hare their beliefs.
 
I agree.

When the so called “ religious right “ mostly Catholics and a few Evangelical groups try to ban abortion they are restricting the religious rights of other groups including the Jewish Religious, Muslim religious, and of the mainline Protestant religious.

The Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice formed a Coalition back in 1973 to help make sure the Catholic religion did not overturn Roe v Wade and take our Religious Liberty away from us.

They agreed that :

State and federal laws must ensure all people the medical, economic, and educational resources necessary for healthy families and communities equipped to nurture children in peace and love.

Religious Liberty
Good policy allows people of all religions to follow their own faiths and consciences in their own lives. In reproductive health, rights and justice, we define religious liberty as the right of a woman to make thoughtful decisions in private consultation with her doctor, her family and her faith. The religious beliefs of others should not interfere.


Exactly. Some christians are violating other people's right to freedom of religion.

Including me.

My faith doesn't have a problem with reproductive freedom, in fact, my faith supports it.

Taking reproductive freedom away from people with my faith and those of other faiths is violating our right to freedom of religion.
 
Yep. As I have always said; my religion is fine with abortion.

Catholics and evengelical christians need to stop treading on my rights.

There is no Scripture, OT or NT, against abortion. But there is no equally vociferous opposition to the fact of Christians pretending that abortion is against Christianity. It isn't. They are treading on the rights of Christians.
 
Yep. As I have always said; my religion is fine with abortion.

Catholics and evangelical Christians need to stop treading on my rights.

What is your religion?

I am still waiting for real conservative Christians to answer my very simple question in the other thread. They are playing chicken on me.
 
What is your religion?

I am still waiting for real conservative Christians to answer my very simple question in the other thread. They are playing chicken on me.


I'm still waiting for christian anti choice people to contribute to this thread.

Seems they are avoiding this thread.
 
I'm still waiting for Christian anti choice people to contribute to this thread.

Seems they are avoiding this thread.

They know what I am doing here: trying to force them to truthfully answer fan extremely important question aimed directly at them.
 
There is no Scripture, OT or NT, against abortion. But there is no equally vociferous opposition to the fact of Christians pretending that abortion is against Christianity. It isn't. They are treading on the rights of Christians.

Dont quit your day job, theology ain't your thing.
 
Samantha Bee has done a segment on her show that basically says what I have been saying for decades.

Please watch this







Any chance you could quote the nugget that you are presenting from this?
 
Any chance you could quote the nugget that you are presenting from this?
Religious Liberty is the nugget.

Many religions believe that the right of a woman to make thoughtful decisions in private consultation with her doctor, her family and her faith.

We sincerely believe that the religious beliefs of others should not interfere.

……..
"When does human life begin?" The Bible's clear answer is that human life begins at birth with breathing. In Genesis 2:7, God "breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and man became a living being" (in some translations, "a living soul.")
 
Religious Liberty is the nugget.

Many religions believe that the right of a woman to make thoughtful decisions in private consultation with her doctor, her family and her faith.

We sincerely believe that the religious beliefs of others should not interfere.

……..
"When does human life begin?" The Bible's clear answer is that human life begins at birth with breathing. In Genesis 2:7, God "breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and man became a living being" (in some translations, "a living soul.")

With respect, that passage of breathing life into the nostrils is a one-off.

There was only one human created by that method in the Bible of which I'm aware. Was there another fully assembled adult made out of mud into which God Breathed life?

Using that as our guide, though, this would seem to justify the capricious murder of anyone who was not an adult. Is that really to be our standard?

The rest of the many billions of people have been made by more conventional processes. This includes Jesus Christ.

In Jeremiah, God says very clearly that He knew Jeremiah in the womb.

All of that aside, though, by now, anyone who understands DNA understands that the unique DNA of an individual is the same in either of their original two cells as it is in any of their 30 or so trillion cells in the full grown adult.

As we learn more of the actual science, the stone age interpretations that might have been based on divine guidance seem to make more sense.
 
Then refute what I said with evidence. If you can't refute my claim, it stands as written. Your off-handed comment does not supply any evidence, except evidence of your ungraciousness.

Back in the day we were called the "people of the book". Its our book, we know what it says, you dont. You prove to me that you know what you're talking about with evidence. The burden of proof is on you, not me.
 
Back in the day we were called the "people of the book". Its our book, we know what it says, you dont. You prove to me that you know what you're talking about with evidence. The burden of proof is on you, not me.


Did you watch the video?

I'm pretty sure if you watched it you would understand what this thread is about.
 
Did you watch the video?

I'm pretty sure if you watched it you would understand what this thread is about.

I know what your friend says its about and he's wrong.
 
In Jeremiah, God says very clearly that He knew Jeremiah in the womb.
The Bible doesn't say anything about God saying those words. Jeremiah said he had a dream about God saying those words to him. This is not a biblical prohibition against abortion.
All of that aside, though, by now, anyone who understands DNA understands that the unique DNA of an individual is the same in either of their original two cells as it is in any of their 30 or so trillion cells in the full grown adult.
Zebras also have DNA unique to each individual zebra. That's why no zebra has the same stripes. Having unique DNA does not make a fetus a human being.
As we learn more of the actual science, the stone age interpretations that might have been based on divine guidance seem to make more sense.
Translation: Stone age religion is more important that the right of a woman to assess the resources of her family in making a decision to keep or abort an unplanned pregnancy.
 
I know what your friend says its about and he's wrong.


Then please give me the scriptures in either the OT or NT that says abortion is outlawed.

Meanwhile I can give you the scriptures of giving directions on how to perform an abortion.

The book of Numbers verses 5:11 though 5:31.

I'll wait for your reply.
 
Then please give me the scriptures in either the OT or NT that says abortion is outlawed.

Meanwhile I can give you the scriptures of giving directions on how to perform an abortion.

The book of Numbers verses 5:11 though 5:31.

I'll wait for your reply.

Do you know any other verses besides the one you cherry picked?

Try it, let me know how it works for you.
 
Back
Top Bottom