Bush to Seek Gay-Marriage Ban in New Term

[Schweddy]

Vauge <-- changed avatar.

 

[argexpat]

Did you see the figures for the Amendment to ban gay marriages AND civil unions for Ohio? 62% CNN

I think your assumption that 'most' people approve is a little off.

I stand corrected, Vauge. Most Americans are bigoted. Thus the Republican Party should do just fine. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[argexpat]

Welcome to Debate Politics!

I like MSR's argument about word preservation. If we can maintain the word to mean "between a man and a woman" then I will be content. If it takes an amendment to do it - I will sign.

I like how you're more interested in preserving the dictionary definition of a word than extending civil liberties to all citizens, the founding principle of the Constitution. So if we just call it something else, like "civil union," you'll be happy? Remember that a "person" used to be defined as a white, land-owning male.

 

[argexpat]

What happens to companies when every HIV positive patient needs only to find a partner to receive employee coverage?

Premiums go up. Premiums that many people are stressed about paying for as it is.

What's to keep sick straight people now from getting married to someone just for the health insurance? This is a specious argument.

 

[heyjoeo]

I believe its called "struggling for arguments when none exist."

 

[Schweddy]

I like how you're more interested in preserving the dictionary definition of a word than extending civil liberties to all citizens, the founding principle of the Constitution. So if we just call it something else, like "civil union," you'll be happy? Remember that a "person" used to be defined as a white, land-owning male.

So, if "civil unions" grant the same "rights" as a marriage - would you condone it?

Same thing different name, but the value of the word IMO needs to be preserved.

This is an advanced argument in political correctness.
Can no longer say HE, one must say he or she. Can no longer say man and wife - must say partners. Can no longer say secretary - administrative assistant.

Yikes, I might need to change "administrator" to "discussion engineer" and "moderator" to "discussion technician".

 

[argexpat]

So, if "civil unions" grant the same "rights" as a marriage - would you condone it?

I condone extending civil liberties to all citizens regardless of sexual orientation. Calling gay marriage a "civil union" violates the "equal protection" clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. For civil unions to be constitutional, it would have to extend the exact same rights to gay couples enjoyed by straight couples, otherwise it's "seperate but unequal." Therefore, if civil unions is legally identical to marriage, let's call it marriage, and quit playing specious semantic games. This rose by any other name would not smell as sweet.

 

[heyjoeo]

Like I said before. Call it Civil Unions so it shuts up the ignorant Americans even though all of us know its just a marriage with a different name.

 

[liberal1]

:shoot What are these imaginery "moral values" that right wingers say are being violated. I personally don't think that being gay is immoral or gay marriage.

 

[liberal1]

Any constituitional amendment should be to give rights, not take them away. If we are for diversity we must allow gays to marriage. I've herd that this will hurt America's moral values but I don't know what values they are violating. Is it perhaps that if George W. Bush is president then we must all be the same. George Bush is a religious Christian freak who is pushing his views on peoples of different types and incoprorating Christianinty into what should be a diverse nation.

 

[heyjoeo]

What "is" a diverse nation.

 

[liberal1]

It is a nation that accepts all races, religions, etc. without a large controversy. As long as they don't harm people they should be allowed to live here without their rights being restricted.

 

[Blue Hobgoblin]

It is a nation that accepts all races, religions, etc. without a large controversy. As long as they don't harm people they should be allowed to live here without their rights being restricted.

Exactly. I for one have nothing against gay marriage. Two people who truly and deeply love each other should be able to live together with all the benefits. Bush has shamelessly played to people's homophobia and the gay marriage Constitutional amendment is nothing short of writing discrimination into the Constitution.


And on a side note not addressing you Libera1, Rome did not fall because of gay people.

 

[Pacridge]

Exactly. I for one have nothing against gay marriage. Two people who truly and deeply love each other should be able to live together with all the benefits. Bush has shamelessly played to people's homophobia and the gay marriage Constitutional amendment is nothing short of writing discrimination into the Constitution.


And on a side note not addressing you Libera1, Rome did not fall because of gay people.

I agree with what you've said here with the exception of the "homophobia" label. That's the label I constantly hear applied to the anti-gay/anti-lesbian movement and I find that label to be completely inaccurate. I don't think it's so much that these people have a fear of gays or lesbians. Rather they think they're better then them. They think God has made them correctly and that somehow God has made the gays/lesbians incorrectly. Or at least the gays/lesbians are acting and behaving in an incorrect manner. So lets stop calling them homophobe's and start using a more accurate term, like hetro-supremacist.

 

[Blue Hobgoblin]

I don't think God makes anybody "incorrectly." Gay people just happen to be the way they are and should be able to live their lives the way they want without discrimination or harrassment.

I like that term "hetero-supremacist." It puts gay haters at the same level as those who discriminate against minorities or those of a different religion.

 

[mixedmedia]

So lets stop calling them homophobe's and start using a more accurate term, like hetro-supremacist.

Hey, Pacridge!

I think homophobe is accurate in the sense that people with homophobic tendencies are AFRAID that gays & lesbians will get the acknowledgement they deserve as tax-paying, & often, god-fearing Americans. They are afraid of them teaching in our schools or having a voice in our communities.

I find it ironic that the less people are exposed to homosexuals in everyday life, the more they are afraid. Thus, we have folks in rural areas who don't really know any gay people who believe they should have a say on how gay relationships are treated in Chicago, NYC or LA.

I like that hetero-supremacist though. It is certainly a phenomena in and of itself.

 

[Blue Hobgoblin]

Two people of the same sex marrying in Massachusettes won't affect the life of a heterosexual living in Nebraska. And gay marriage won't destroy the country. People used to think interracial marriages were the worst thing. Now they're almost completely accepted. Give this issue twenty to thirty years, and most people won't care and will accept gay marriage as normal.

 

[Pacridge]

I don't think God makes anybody "incorrectly." Gay people just happen to be the way they are and should be able to live their lives the way they want without discrimination or harrassment.

I like that term "hetero-supremacist." It puts gay haters at the same level as those who discriminate against minorities or those of a different religion.

Amen to that. I find it interesting how people are either trying to claim God has either made some people with errors or they know what God's thoughts and plans are; Hum, I know what God thinks- and you're an elitist. Interesting.

 

[Pacridge]

Hey, Pacridge!

I think homophobe is accurate in the sense that people with homophobic tendencies are AFRAID that gays & lesbians will get the acknowledgement they deserve as tax-paying, & often, god-fearing Americans. They are afraid of them teaching in our schools or having a voice in our communities.

I find it ironic that the less people are exposed to homosexuals in everyday life, the more they are afraid. Thus, we have folks in rural areas who don't really know any gay people who believe they should have a say on how gay relationships are treated in Chicago, NYC or LA.

I like that hetero-supremacist though. It is certainly a phenomena in and of itself.

It seems like the anti-homosexual movement would want gays in the schools. I mean don't they think people can be influenced in their sexuality? Don't they believe that their hetero-sexual children can be "turned" gay by exposure to gay ideas? The it seems to reason they would want to be able to "turn" straight all these homosexuals by exposing them to the overhelming straight culture of public school. Personally I don't think I could turn a homosexual straight. And I'm absolutely certain there's no way I'm going to "turn" gay.

 

[Schweddy]

I think homophobe is accurate in the sense that people with homophobic tendencies are AFRAID that gays & lesbians will get the acknowledgement they deserve as tax-paying, & often, god-fearing Americans. They are afraid of them teaching in our schools or having a voice in our communities.

I have no problems with gay teachers.
But, if a teacher is gay and proclaims it to my child every day that it's ok - that is quite another. To me that is preaching to my child. Why should it matter if they are gay or not? Why should they have to even tell that they are gay? So that they can "feel good" about thier unpopular behaviour?

I could careless who someone sleeps with. The "don't ask - don't tell" policy should be the standard in public schools and all forms of government.

I don't tell about my sex life, and regardless if your sexual orientation - I am not interested in yours.

If that is homophobe - I am guilty.

BTW, mixed it's good to see you again.

 

[Pacridge]

I have no problems with gay teachers.
But, if a teacher is gay and proclaims it to my child every day that it's ok - that is quite another. To me that is preaching to my child. Why should it matter if they are gay or not? Why should they have to even tell that they are gay? So that they can "feel good" about thier unpopular behaviour?

I could careless who someone sleeps with. The "don't ask - don't tell" policy should be the standard in public schools and all forms of government.

I don't tell about my sex life, and regardless if your sexual orientation - I am not interested in yours.

If that is homophobe - I am guilty.

BTW, mixed it's good to see you again.

I absolutely agree with you Vague. Personally I don't want teachers, homosexual or heteosexual, discussing their sex life or orientation in any class room.

 

[mixedmedia]

It seems like the anti-homosexual movement would want gays in the schools. I mean don't they think people can be influenced in their sexuality? Don't they believe that their hetero-sexual children can be "turned" gay by exposure to gay ideas? The it seems to reason they would want to be able to "turn" straight all these homosexuals by exposing them to the overhelming straight culture of public school. Personally I don't think I could turn a homosexual straight. And I'm absolutely certain there's no way I'm going to "turn" gay.

hee, hee, that's an interesting twist indeed, maybe I should try selling it at the next school board meeting.

No I don't think there's any turning anyone straight or gay. Maybe it's just because I have been around gay men & women all my life (and I am so straight!), but I can see it in them, often before they've said a word to me. There has to be a genetic factor at work. Not a flaw! Just a difference. A subtle, meaningless difference, no more relevant than hair, eye or skin color. That's just my opinion, of course. There could be others.

 

[mixedmedia]

I absolutely agree with you Vague. Personally I don't want teachers, homosexual or heteosexual, discussing their sex life or orientation in any class room.

Hey, vauge! Good to see you, too.

I don't condone any teachers speaking to children at school about their personal sex life. That's not what I meant. But it's a fact that teachers have lost their jobs simply because they have been "outed." This shouldn't happen. It is not a parents business what a teacher does in his or her off hours as long as it is a private affair. I do not think any teachers should engage in open promiscuity in their communities.

 

[Blue Hobgoblin]

I agree with Mixedmedia. Teachers shouldn't discuss their personal sex life with their students, but they shouldn't be fired simply because of their orientation.

 

[Gabo]

Hey, I've been looking for this "land of the free" that's supposedly somewhere on the north american continent. Sadly, I really just can't find it... I'm in quite a puzzle...

It appears to me its all a lie. There is no land of the free. Although there are all these crazy socialists in that USA that believe they have freedom! What jokers!

Can someone tell me if I've overlooked one of the smaller countries or something? Because I am really at a loss without a free country to express my views and opinions in.