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Bush Says bin Laden Dangerous

Billo_Really

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Originally posted by KCConservative:
Is that your proof? Because if it is, it's very very lame. With all that laser guided technology, how did Clinton hit an aspirin factory by accident? You said that all indications point to our purposefully targeting a hospital while striking Iraq. I'm just asking for you to support your claim. If you can't, just say so.
I cannot prove we directly targeted it. I am appauled that we hit it in the first place.
 

Billo_Really

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Originally posted by oldreliable67:
No terrorists at all? Prove it.
What terrorist activities were attributed to Iraq prior to the US invasion? There's your proof.
 

Billo_Really

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Originally posted by Trajan Octavian Titus
What terrorist activities have been directly attributed to Iran? Does that mean that they don't support terrorism?
If you build it, they will come.

Get back on topic.
 
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Billo_Really said:
I cannot prove we directly targeted it.
Then I guess "all indications" don't point to that afterall.
 

Billo_Really

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Originally posted by KCConservative:
Then I guess "all indications" don't point to that afterall.
Just because I cannot prove we didn't deliberately target that hospital does not mean we did not deliberately target that hospital. The fact is, we bombed it. That is un-deniable.
 

Trajan Octavian Titus

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Billo_Really said:
Just because I cannot prove we didn't deliberately target that hospital does not mean we did not deliberately target that hospital. The fact is, we bombed it. That is un-deniable.

Yes we bombed a hospital that had no patients in it and one in which people who were blowing up Iraqi civilians and chopping off the heads of Americans were using as a base of operations... that's a good thing.
 

Billo_Really

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Originally posted by Trajan Octavian Titus
Yes we bombed a hospital that had no patients in it and one in which people who were blowing up Iraqi civilians and chopping off the heads of Americans were using as a base of operations... that's a good thing.
Prove it!.........
 

Billo_Really

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Thursday 11 November 2004

"The bombs being dropped on Fallujah don't contain explosives, depleted uranium or anything harmful - they contain laughing gas - that would, of course, explain [Pentagon chief Donald] Rumsfeld's misplaced optimism about not killing civilians in Fallujah. Also, being a 'civilian' is a relative thing in a country occupied by Americans. You're only a civilian if you're on their side. If you translate for them, or serve them food in the Green Zone, or wipe their floors - you're an innocent civilian. Just about everyone else is an insurgent, unless they can get a job as a 'civilian'."

- Riverbend, an Iraqi civilian girl, author of the blog Baghdad Burning

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/printer_111204X.shtml
Hey, Trajan, put this in your pipe and smoke it!
 

Billo_Really

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Originally posted by Trajan Octavian Titus
You already did when you said this hospital was bombed during the Fallujah offensive.
I thought you were told not to take anymore of that brown acid?
 
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Billo_Really said:
I thought you were told not to take anymore of that brown acid?
billo, I like you. We get along pretty good. So I have to say, as a pal, resorting to drug accusations (like you often do) isn't much of a debate rebuttal. It hurts your credibility.
 

Billo_Really

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Originally posted by KCConservative:
billo, I like you. We get along pretty good. So I have to say, as a pal, resorting to drug accusations (like you often do) isn't much of a debate rebuttal. It hurts your credibility.
It was a sarcastic metaphor.
 

oldreliable67

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Billo_Really said:
What terrorist activities were attributed to Iraq prior to the US invasion? There's your proof.

Thats the best you can do? Here is a short primer on Iraqi terrorism under Saddam...

Overview of State-Sponsored Terrorism

Despite significant pressure from the US Government, the seven designated state sponsors of terrorism—Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Libya, North Korea, Syria, and Sudan—did not take all the necessary actions to disassociate themselves fully from their ties to terrorism in 2002. While some of these countries have taken steps to cooperate in the global war on terrorism, most have also continued the very actions that led them to be declared state sponsors.
...

Iraq planned and sponsored international terrorism in 2002. Throughout the year, the Iraqi Intelligence Services (IIS) laid the groundwork for possible attacks against civilian and military targets in the United States and other Western countries. The IIS reportedly instructed its agents in early 2001 that their main mission was to obtain information about US and Israeli targets. The IIS also threatened dissidents in the Near East and Europe and stole records and computer files detailing antiregime activity. In December 2002, the press claimed Iraqi intelligence killed Walid al-Mayahi, a Shi’a Iraqi refugee in Lebanon and member of the Iraqi National Congress.

Iraq was a safehaven, transit point, and operational base for groups and individuals who direct violence against the United States, Israel, and other countries. Baghdad overtly assisted two categories of Iraqi-based terrorist organizations—Iranian dissidents devoted to toppling the Iranian Government and a variety of Palestinian groups opposed to peace with Israel. The groups include the Iranian Mujahedin-e Khalq, the Abu Nidal organization (although Iraq reportedly killed its leader), the Palestine Liberation Front (PLF), and the Arab Liberation Front (ALF). In the past year, the PLF increased its operational activity against Israel and sent its members to Iraq for training for future terrorist attacks.

Baghdad provided material assistance to other Palestinian terrorist groups that are in the forefront of the intifadah. The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command, HAMAS, and the Palestine Islamic Jihad are the three most important groups to whom Baghdad has extended outreach and support efforts.

Saddam paid the families of Palestinian suicide bombers to encourage Palestinian terrorism, channeling $25,000 since March through the ALF alone to families of suicide bombers in Gaza and the West Bank. Public testimonials by Palestinian civilians and officials and cancelled checks captured by Israel in the West Bank verify the transfer of a considerable amount of Iraqi money.

The presence of several hundred al-Qaida operatives fighting with the small Kurdish Islamist group Ansar al-Islam in the northeastern corner of Iraqi Kurdistan—where the IIS operates—is well documented. Iraq has an agent in the most senior levels of Ansar al-Islam as well. In addition, small numbers of highly placed al-Qaida militants were present in Baghdad and areas of Iraq that Saddam controls. It is inconceivable these groups were in Iraq without the knowledge and acquiescence of Saddam’s regime. In the past year, al-Qaida operatives in northern Iraq concocted suspect chemicals under the direction of senior al-Qaida associate Abu Mus’ab al-Zarqawi and tried to smuggle them into Russia, Western Europe, and the United States for terrorist operations.

Source.
 

Billo_Really

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Originally posted by oldreliable67:
Thats the best you can do? Here is a short primer on Iraqi terrorism under Saddam...


Quote:
Overview of State-Sponsored Terrorism

Despite significant pressure from the US Government, the seven designated state sponsors of terrorism—Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Libya, North Korea, Syria, and Sudan—did not take all the necessary actions to disassociate themselves fully from their ties to terrorism in 2002. While some of these countries have taken steps to cooperate in the global war on terrorism, most have also continued the very actions that led them to be declared state sponsors.
...

Iraq planned and sponsored international terrorism in 2002. Throughout the year, the Iraqi Intelligence Services (IIS) laid the groundwork for possible attacks against civilian and military targets in the United States and other Western countries. The IIS reportedly instructed its agents in early 2001 that their main mission was to obtain information about US and Israeli targets. The IIS also threatened dissidents in the Near East and Europe and stole records and computer files detailing antiregime activity. In December 2002, the press claimed Iraqi intelligence killed Walid al-Mayahi, a Shi’a Iraqi refugee in Lebanon and member of the Iraqi National Congress.

Iraq was a safehaven, transit point, and operational base for groups and individuals who direct violence against the United States, Israel, and other countries. Baghdad overtly assisted two categories of Iraqi-based terrorist organizations—Iranian dissidents devoted to toppling the Iranian Government and a variety of Palestinian groups opposed to peace with Israel. The groups include the Iranian Mujahedin-e Khalq, the Abu Nidal organization (although Iraq reportedly killed its leader), the Palestine Liberation Front (PLF), and the Arab Liberation Front (ALF). In the past year, the PLF increased its operational activity against Israel and sent its members to Iraq for training for future terrorist attacks.

Baghdad provided material assistance to other Palestinian terrorist groups that are in the forefront of the intifadah. The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command, HAMAS, and the Palestine Islamic Jihad are the three most important groups to whom Baghdad has extended outreach and support efforts.

Saddam paid the families of Palestinian suicide bombers to encourage Palestinian terrorism, channeling $25,000 since March through the ALF alone to families of suicide bombers in Gaza and the West Bank. Public testimonials by Palestinian civilians and officials and cancelled checks captured by Israel in the West Bank verify the transfer of a considerable amount of Iraqi money.

The presence of several hundred al-Qaida operatives fighting with the small Kurdish Islamist group Ansar al-Islam in the northeastern corner of Iraqi Kurdistan—where the IIS operates—is well documented. Iraq has an agent in the most senior levels of Ansar al-Islam as well. In addition, small numbers of highly placed al-Qaida militants were present in Baghdad and areas of Iraq that Saddam controls. It is inconceivable these groups were in Iraq without the knowledge and acquiescence of Saddam’s regime. In the past year, al-Qaida operatives in northern Iraq concocted suspect chemicals under the direction of senior al-Qaida associate Abu Mus’ab al-Zarqawi and tried to smuggle them into Russia, Western Europe, and the United States for terrorist operations.


Source.
Don't you think the 9/11 Commission report, which goes into much more detail about the sources and collection of information, supercedes this report?
 

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Binary_Digit said:
I never said it was fake, I meant it was biased to the point of deception. Didn't you notice in the movie how Bush let the bin Laden family escape from America, but that piece of trash MM didn't bother to mention they aren't even terrorists? Obviously the viewer is led to believe something that isn't true, and that's just the same as lying in my book. I wouldn't believe someone who tried to put that kind of **** past me, I'd be pissed off! He's a tool, no better than Ann Coulter or Pat Robertson, plain and simple!

Did the movie say why that poor lady's family was bombed? Was it an accident? Was it on purpose? Was her family hiding terrorists? I guess we don't know do we? Again MM leaves us to assume the worst. Dishonesty in disguise, the worst possible kind.

Really that's kinda pointless anyway. Don't get me wrong, I have sympathy for each and every human being who suffers over there, on both sides. Civilian casualties are heartbreaking, but they are unavoidable. Ultimately the issue is not about civilian casualties, it's about the rationale for going to war in the first place. A responsible search for truth in this controversy should involve recognizing and disregarding bullshit bias on both sides of the debate, not just the other guy's.

What MM also failed to mention is that bin Laden's family was allowed to leave the US after 9/11 because of safety concerns. Some American's wouldn't care that they did not share OBL's thought processes, if you will. Heck, look at all the immediate attacks against some Arab American's simply because they are of Middle Eastern descent.

I watched Farenheit 9/11, because I wanted to see for myself what the hype was about. I found it ridiculous, at best. At it's worst, I found it to be a tool of division, perported with lies and untruths. After it was over, I shook my head.
 

Billo_Really

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Originally posted by debate_junkie
What MM also failed to mention is that bin Laden's family was allowed to leave the US after 9/11 because of safety concerns. Some American's wouldn't care that they did not share OBL's thought processes, if you will. Heck, look at all the immediate attacks against some Arab American's simply because they are of Middle Eastern descent.

I watched Farenheit 9/11, because I wanted to see for myself what the hype was about. I found it ridiculous, at best. At it's worst, I found it to be a tool of division, perported with lies and untruths. After it was over, I shook my head.
And just how many families did the US government fly out that day?
 

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Be a vigilante and find Bin Laden for yourself? I heard the last time we spotted him he was in Saudi Arabia, it was on one of those Discovery Channel TLC shows?
 

Billo_Really

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Originally posted by stsburns:
Be a vigilante and find Bin Laden for yourself? I heard the last time we spotted him he was in Saudi Arabia, it was on one of those Discovery Channel TLC shows?
No........
 

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debate_junkie said:
What MM also failed to mention is that bin Laden's family was allowed to leave the US after 9/11 because of safety concerns. Some American's wouldn't care that they did not share OBL's thought processes, if you will. Heck, look at all the immediate attacks against some Arab American's simply because they are of Middle Eastern descent.

I watched Farenheit 9/11, because I wanted to see for myself what the hype was about. I found it ridiculous, at best. At it's worst, I found it to be a tool of division, perported with lies and untruths. After it was over, I shook my head.

The fact is that Bush was afraid that those family members whould be able to speak to federal prosecutors/attorneys.... he feared revelation.
 

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stsburns said:
Be a vigilante and find Bin Laden for yourself? I heard the last time we spotted him he was in Saudi Arabia, it was on one of those Discovery Channel TLC shows?

You give me the apparatus that the NSA, NRO, DARPA (IAO) has and I will find Bin Laden in .32000004 seconds.

Anything less would be uncivilized.
 

Billo_Really

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Orginally posted by stsburns:
So your going to let him or his followers find you?
My profession is electrical engineering. I will leave the searching for psycho's up to the people who's profession it is to find those people. If I do happen to see UBL and/or his cronies in my neighborhood, I will do my civic duty and immediately report them to the authority having jurisdiction.
 

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Billo_Really said:
My profession is electrical engineering. I will leave the searching for psycho's up to the people who's profession it is to find those people. If I do happen to see UBL and/or his cronies in my neighborhood, I will do my civic duty and immediately report them to the authority having jurisdiction.
Like bounty hunters? So you do respect Authority? Sorry Billo_Really but I really don't trust the police. So far they have never served me justice. As far as I am concerned they are just people that ask for for "License and Registration Please."

Hey your into electronics, me too! What all have you wired up! :mrgreen:
 

Billo_Really

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Orginally posted by stsburns:
Like bounty hunters? So you do respect Authority? Sorry Billo_Really but I really don't trust the police. So far they have never served me justice. As far as I am concerned they are just people that ask for for "License and Registration Please."

Hey your into electronics, me too! What all have you wired up!
I said electrical, not electronics. I stop at 60Hz.

Everyone needs a building permit to do any type of construction. If it involves electrical wiring of building systems (ie, power, lighting, computer data, PA, Fire Alarm, Security, etc) I design/draw the plans on Autocad that are submitted to building departments, DSA, OSHPD, etc. for approval.

Technically I'm called an electrical engineering consultant.
 
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