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Bush; NSA; Expanding the government?

Is Bush expanding the power of the government?

  • Of course he is.

    Votes: 1 20.0%
  • He's just trying to make us safer.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • He's a sheep in a wolf suit.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Our government should be authoritarian.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Rule of Law means nothing to him.

    Votes: 2 40.0%
  • He's a true conservative.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • yes.

    Votes: 1 20.0%
  • no.

    Votes: 1 20.0%

  • Total voters
    5

Conflict

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Within the NSA's so called authorized and indubitably warrantless attempt to spy on American Citizens, exists an intuitive (clear, easy to see) expansion of executive power. As a libertarian I find this to be completely unacceptable.

I feel that this Administration doesn't want to conserve our rights. They want to conserve their agenda. The American people should not simply sit by. This is a very serious issue. They are expanding the power of the government.

The simple fact is that we don't actually know who the NSA is spying on. The administration has avoided the rule of law pertaining FISC/FISA. Why would they do that? What are they hiding? Is Bush monitoring his own ties with Saudi based terrorist leaders? Is Bush monitoring those who may talk to the same people he flew out of here two days after 9/11? WHy? If so, why did he allow them to fly out of our nation while stopping all commerce of American Citizens?

Who is to know wether or not Bush is spying on dissidents like Joe Wilson, or people like myself who have the balls to actually directly criticize his authoritarian agenda of executive expansion.

The House and Senate exist to limit the role of the executive branch... not to expound it through legislation. Do they not?
 
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Conflict

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Look people I realize I'm an asshole. I don't deny that. BUt for petes sake will somebody chime in... at least on the poll?
 

Conflict

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shameless bump.

Polls? Opinions? Thoughts?
 

Crispy

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Conflict said:
Within the NSA's so called authorized and indubitably warrantless attempt to spy on American Citizens, exists an intuitive (clear, easy to see) expansion of executive power. As a libertarian I find this to be completely unacceptable.

I feel that this Administration doesn't want to conserve our rights. They want to conserve their agenda. The American people should not simply sit by. This is a very serious issue. They are expanding the power of the government.

The simple fact is that we don't actually know who the NSA is spying on. The administration has avoided the rule of law pertaining FISC/FISA. Why would they do that? What are they hiding? Is Bush monitoring his own ties with Saudi based terrorist leaders? Is Bush monitoring those who may talk to the same people he flew out of here two days after 9/11? WHy? If so, why did he allow them to fly out of our nation while stopping all commerce of American Citizens?

Who is to know wether or not Bush is spying on dissidents like Joe Wilson, or people like myself who have the balls to actually directly criticize his authoritarian agenda of executive expansion.

The House and Senate exist to limit the role of the executive branch... not to expound it through legislation. Do they not?
I'll Chime in for ya,

I think its time for americans to consider what's "important" when we talk about civil rights in this situation. What pisses me off is those who are complaining about this care more about the "perceptioin" of a law being broken than the actual bearing it has on their life!

Does their checking your phone records prevent you from wakiing up, going to work, loving your wife, providing for your children? no! Does it, prevent you from persuing your dreams or benifiting from a prosperous american society? no!

You know what will prevent these things for some? The next terror attack on american soil.

I don't give a rats *** if the government listens in my phone calls or reads my emails. If they want to here me talk about my crappy day at work with one of my buddies so be it. Until now they were the only ones who weren't because the technology is widely available to anybody else who wannts sniff your communications.

Is having a "guarenteed"" untapped phone conversation more important to you than our governments ability to counter the technological edge that our enemies apparently have and exploit daily? Do you really think this constitutes a denial of civil rights say on the order of what MLK fought for?

This shows me how spoiled and arrogant Americans really are. Maybe we deserve another 9/11
 

Conflict

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First of all thank you for your response. It seems sincere.

Crispy said:
I'll Chime in for ya,

I think its time for americans to consider what's "important" when we talk about civil rights in this situation. What pisses me off is those who are complaining about this care more about the "perceptioin" of a law being broken than the actual bearing it has on their life!
I agree but there is a rule of law that should be followed. It's not just a perception. It's a law. That's why FISA was created.


Crispy said:
Does their checking your phone records prevent you from wakiing up, going to work, loving your wife, providing for your children? no!
Not in a direct sense, no. However there is no oversight. For all I know they could be wishing harm upon my children or myself, simply because I do not agrre with their M.O. . It is the American way to have a functional form of goverment.. one that is for the people and not the secretive will of the administration.

Crispy said:
Does it, prevent you from persuing your dreams or benifiting from a prosperous american society? no!
That's what I don't actually know for sure. THat's why FISA exists. That's why I'm so skeptical about the power of the executive administration. They have a lot of power over the people.... and it is beginning to seem like too much.

Crispy said:
You know what will prevent these things for some? The next terror attack on american soil.
Bush hasn't secured the borders. He hasn't got Bin Laden. Am i supposed to actually believe that he gives adamn about American soil?

Crispy said:
I don't give a rats *** if the government listens in my phone calls or reads my emails. If they want to here me talk about my crappy day at work with one of my buddies so be it.
That is an adherance to blind trust in this administration. That is your perogative. I have no problem with being monitored either... however I only wish that there be an arbitrary body to oversee why and when i'm being monitored. Who's to say it's not for political or differential purposes? Nobody, because nobody knows.

Crispy said:
Until now they were the only ones who weren't because the technology is widely available to anybody else who wannts sniff your communications.
Hardly. I suppose you are attempting to claim that you're a hacker or a phreaker? LOL! If that were the case you wouldn't be supporting the administration.

Crispy said:
Is having a "guarenteed"" untapped phone conversation more important to you than our governments ability to counter the technological edge that our enemies apparently have and exploit daily?
They have a technological edge on us? Wow! Are you serious?


Crispy said:
Do you really think this constitutes a denial of civil rights say on the order of what MLK fought for?
MLK is a seperate issue that was dealt with in terms basic human rights... this deals with the constitutional rights of American Citizens as written by our forefathers.

Crispy said:
This shows me how spoiled and arrogant Americans really are. Maybe we deserve another 9/11
I disagree that we deserve another 9/11 or that we deserved the first.

The only things arrogant about the American People are the Neo-conservative administration and their sycophant, conformist law makers who are refusing to do their job.
 
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