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Bush is a war criminal...

Should George W. Bush be impeached?

  • Yes

    Votes: 42 41.6%
  • No

    Votes: 59 58.4%

  • Total voters
    101
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SKILMATIC said:
Lack of suport is entirely different than someone giving or not giving benefits. Please get your points straight.

What is the level of quality of these benefits? Are these institutions run by med-school flunkies, or are they quality services? Does your grandfather use the services he is entitled to? Why or why not?
 
What is the level of quality of these benefits? Are these institutions run by med-school flunkies, or are they quality services? Does your grandfather use the services he is entitled to? Why or why not?
Today 02:32 PM

The quality is by far some of the best. However, I will say the veterans hospital doesnt have all the specialty surgeons like that of cardiovascular and brain, neural surgeons. However, the vet affairs has a program that sources stuff like that out to civilian(contractors) and in any case is still 100% paid for no charge by the gov. My grandmother to the one who is a WW2 vet just had a triple bypass surgery which was performed at Sharps hospital which was completely paid for by the gov. Her whole surgery, rehab, and after meds were completely taken care of.

The vet institutions are runed mostly by retired military docs or nurses(corpmen). And like I said they also have the opportunity to also go to a active duty hospital like that of Balboa if they reside in such a area or go to a civilian contractor.

My grandfather is in exceptional health so he hasnt had the need for medical attention however his dependant(wife )does and shes getting anything she needs for no charge.

The benefits are there you just haveto do the research no one is going to hand you anything. You got to take the initiative to do the research.
 
SKILMATIC said:
The quality is by far some of the best. However, I will say the veterans hospital doesnt have all the specialty surgeons like that of cardiovascular and brain, neural surgeons. However, the vet affairs has a program that sources stuff like that out to civilian(contractors) and in any case is still 100% paid for no charge by the gov...
... The benefits are there you just haveto do the research no one is going to hand you anything. You got to take the initiative to do the research.

Thanks Skils. You are the cream of the crop when it comes to undisclosed political affiliation! Enlightening, as usual.
 
Living close to a VA hospital and using its facilities as I have for a small service connected disability.....I can not say enough good things about the care I receive there......The quality of the care has been excellent........
 
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NASCAR_dad said:
Interesting, with 62 votes the poll is split 50/50.

Since most of these on line forums usually lean to the left the results do not surrpise me...........I belong to another forum called Whistlestopper and it was about 80-20 for impeachment there...........This forum is much more balanced..........If your a Conservative at WS and you disagree with them you are usually banned........
 
Navy Pride said:
Since most of these on line forums usually lean to the left the results do not surrpise me...........I belong to another forum called Whistlestopper and it was about 80-20 for impeachment there...........This forum is much more balanced..........If your a Conservative at WS and you disagree with them you are usually banned........




Why would most online polls lean left?
 
If you just read the damn article you will otice that Bush cut funding which reduced the amount of VA Offices, reduced the level of funding to educate military funding and is planning more cuts. Perhaps the actions of the congress have reduced the effect of Bush's proposed cuts, great, vets deserve it, but Bush has tried to gut just about every federal program that doesn't line the pockets of his corporate sponsors.

an article by the Associated Press that President Bush’s 2006 budget (if he is re-elected) has a provision in it that will cut funds for Veterans Affairs by 3.4% or roughly $1 billion. The total VA Budget is $28.7 billion a year.

WASHINGTON - The leaders of America's most prominent veterans organizations say that President Bush is failing to honor past commitments to military men and women even as he prepares to send a new generation of soldiers and sailors into combat.

The administration's support for rescinding lifetime health benefits for World War II and Korean War veterans and continuing problems at veterans hospitals stand as proof, veteran leaders say, that America is more than willing to lean on its soldiers during times of war but tolerates them serving as political props in peacetime.

Coming after President Clinton, who avoided service in Vietnam and had a strained relationship with the military, veterans leaders say they had high expectations for Bush, who served in the National Guard and whose father was a fighter pilot during World War Two.

''I'm terribly frustrated and extremely angry,'' said retired Air Force Colonel George ''Bud'' Day, a Republican who won the Medal of Honor and was a prisoner of war in North Vietnam with Senator John McCain of Arizona.

Day said Bush is violating his oft-repeated campaign pledge to veterans: ''A promise made is a promise kept.''

''Obviously, he didn't know what that meant or he's too preoccupied to see that his word is kept,'' Day said.

Many veterans are particularly galled that the Bush administration has not backed away from a 1995 decision to rescind a promise of free lifetime health care benefits for soldiers, who from 1941 to 1956 had been told that if they signed up and served 20 years they and their dependents would get free care. The government stopped honoring that pledge in 1995, and many veterans 65 and older have been forced to pay for benefits through Medicare, which now costs about $60 a month and pays for 80 percent of medical care after a $100 deductible has been paid.

Day has represented a group of veterans hoping to get the free health care restored, but the US Court of Appeals in Washington ruled last month that the recruiters who promised the free care did not have the standing to do so.

Officials from Disabled American Veterans, the American Legion, and the Veterans of Foreign Wars protested the decision.

The issue could become a factor in the 2004 presidential race because Day said he will ask the Supreme Court to hear the case. Because of the court's schedule, the case might not be heard until late 2003 or early 2004 - if at all.

The Justice Department refused to make the attorneys handling the case available for an interview, and Justice spokesman Charles Miller declined to comment.

Deputy White House spokesman Scott McClellan would not respond to criticism of the Bush administration's record on veterans benefits or explain why the administration has supported the 1995 decision.

''President Bush has had a chance to rectify this, and he hasn't done it,'' said Ronald F. Conley, national commander of the American Legion. ''Before we spend one dime rebuilding Afghanistan and rebuilding Iraq after we bomb it to smithereens, we ought to take care of our veterans.''

Massachusetts Senator John F. Kerry, a decorated Vietnam War veteran who is considering a White House run in 2004, questioned the 1995 decision, the current administration's defense of it, and the November ruling.

''It is extraordinary to me that you give your entire career in defense of this country and then have to go to court to make the government keep their promise,'' Kerry said. ''What's the message we're sending to our troops around the world today and those prepared to fight in Iraq? The message seems to be, `Do your duty to country but your country won't fulfill its duty to you when you return home.'''

Hoping to get the president to disavow the 1995 decision on veterans health care, Day said he used a Medal of Honor reception in June to ask Bush about it personally.

''I said to him, `Mr. President, I'm Colonel Bud Day. You know your campaign [promise], a promise made is a promise kept, is being broken.' His eyes just glazed over,'' Day said. ''He really had no idea what I was talking about.''

With his wife fuming at her husband's directness with the president, Day said he explained the circumstances of the case. Lawyers from the current Justice Department have defended the '95 decision in court, so Day was hoping Bush would withdraw support for the case. Instead, Day said the president told him, ''`Colonel, you really need to talk to [Veterans Affairs Secretary Anthony] Principi.'''

After pushing more with the VA, Day said he ''realized this was a dry hole.''

Veterans have experienced such disappointment before. Rhetorical support for veterans has been a staple of political discourse throughout the country's history, but veterans have long struggled to get promised benefits.

After fighting with poor weapons, equipment, and uniforms to win the Revolutionary War, only 3,000 American servicemen received pensions. Veterans of the Spanish-American War, disgusted with the lack of care available to them after their service, founded the VFW in 1899.

But benefits and care for veterans was still slim by the time World War I ended. Veterans of that war had seen their savings wiped out in the stock market crash of 1929 and pushed for the early distribution of monetary bonuses Congress had authorized. They set up tents and huts in Washington to make their point to Congress but were forcefully evicted from the area by Major General Douglas MacArthur in 1932.

The GI Bill of Rights educated and housed a generation of soldiers in the 1940s and 1950s. Free lifetime medical care was another benefit for two decades of service.

Now, that free care has been ended. Veterans can still be cared for at VA medical facilities, but the wait for non-emergency treatment is long. Citing a report indicating that more than 300,000 veterans are waiting for primary care appointments at VA facilities, the American Legion is launching a national campaign to alert federal legislators to the problem. The American Legion is sending out booklets on the problem to its 15,000 posts and collecting personal stories of ''backlogged'' veterans to tell Congress early next year.

VA spokesman Phil Budahn said the agency does not try to defend the delays veterans experience in getting care. ''There's enormous frustration from the secretary's office all the way down,'' Budahn said. ''We just don't have the staff to see them as quickly as we would like. We're fighting for the best appropriations we can get.''

Togo West Jr., secretary of Veterans Affairs from 1998 to 2000, said the VA often struggles to keep up with costs because health care is increasingly expensive and the agency's clientele is older and sicker than the general population.

''We don't ever get to do as much as we want for veterans,'' West said.

Now you're confusing my dissaproval of Bush with my apparent approval of Clinton. Well it was Clinton who originally proposed the rescinding of life-time benefits for WWII vets, so no he's no better, but you said Bush had created jobs, increased funding for Vets and military families. I took issue with that because none of those things are true, I've demonstrated them to be untrue so you should admit you were wrong SKILMATIC, and then we can all gripe about how Presidents don't care about vets outside of election years and when posing for photos.

Take a look at the treatment of actual Vets like John Kerry and Max Cleland by the deserter Bush. He doesn't care. He really doesn't care.
 
but Bush has tried to gut just about every federal program that doesn't line the pockets of his corporate sponsors.

Again you are an idiot. Bush has no corporate sponsors due to him already being insanely rich. Ever hear of the texas Ranger? Yeah he owns them. He may have some sort of corporate machine that initializes him to do certain things becasue he has a business to run. However, that in no way will make bush sway from what he wants to do. The fact is bush has never tried to cut funding for vets. That article is hogwash I know casue I work for him and we (the military) keep a close eye on our superiors. Clinton tried to do this and we refused to salute the president. If bush did this he would be hated by all military but the fact is hes not cause those are just accusations. Again get some hard evidence of your accusations casue thats all they are expecially coming from someone 6000miles away. I know what is going on with my own benefits, sir. I dont need someone from across the atlantic telling me what is going on with something that has been in my lfe difinitively ever since I was born.

So I suppose the next "credible" source will be the London Post?
 
Now you're confusing my dissaproval of Bush with my apparent approval of Clinton. Well it was Clinton who originally proposed the rescinding of life-time benefits for WWII vets, so no he's no better, but you said Bush had created jobs, increased funding for Vets and military families. I took issue with that because none of those things are true, I've demonstrated them to be untrue so you should admit you were wrong SKILMATIC, and then we can all gripe about how Presidents don't care about vets outside of election years and when posing for photos.

How is it that someone who serves the military and who has reletives who are actually veterans going to be wrong on my own medical coverage? You are truly an idiot. You have done no such demonstration other than find editorials from the Washington Post which is a biast approach just like all other medias. Yeah it takes alot of knowledge to post a link to something. I bet if I looked to find a article that said the Queen of England is a lesbian I bet I could find that too.
 
Thanks Skils. You are the cream of the crop when it comes to undisclosed political affiliation! Enlightening, as usual.

Well thanks for the kind words ban the electoral college. Now if freethought can just read and comprehend those anecdotes we will be good to go. I cannot beleive he is arguing with me over something that I know becasue I am in it. He sits 6000miles away and is preaching to me about veterans benefits, :lol: . I tell ya sometimes the Britts amaze me.
 
If you read the articles I've posted, a lot of it's coming from the VFW and other Veterans groups, stop attacking me and start posting evidence of Bush looking after Vets.

But onto the corporate sponsors, well his administration is chock-full of former corporate lobbyists and CEO's. Ken Lay wrote the Bush's energy policy (the White House refuses to hand over minutes of meetings between Lay and Cheney), and who was GW's biggest campaign contributor in 2000...Enron, remember them. That and the fact presidential campagins cost hundreds of millions of dollars, did Bush pay for all this? I don't think so. You should read "Bushwhacked; Life in George W. Bush's America" by Molly Ivins and Lou Dubose. It will open your eyes to the corporate giveaway that is Bush's presidency.

And the fact is that the military is a very pro-Republican organisation, and the Clinton thing was over cuts in defense spending, this money would have gone straight to Lockheed Martin, the Carlyle group and other defense contractors, while any attempts by Bush to cut defense spending would infuriate his corporate backers, and of course be lunacy in war-time.

And hey, you attacked me for using anecdotal evidence (when I had done no such thing) while I'm supposed to take your anecdotal evidence as gospel, when you are obviously incredibly partisan and don't want to hear a bad word about Bush's presidency.
 
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SKILMATIC said:
Again you are an idiot.

SKILS SKILS SKILS SKILS !!!!!!!!!!!! Hey, man. You've acted as a moderator for me in the past. This is your karma speaking. Chill. Flaming= Bad. I know you mean well. But, let's try to restrain ourselves. Cool?
 
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SKILS SKILS SKILS SKILS !!!!!!!!!!!! Hey, man. You've acted as a moderator for me in the past. This is your karma speaking. Chill. Flaming= Bad. I know you mean well. But, let's try to restrain ourselves. Cool?
Today 05:01 PM

Your absolutley right. But it would be wrong claiming that one is an idiot for expressing opinions. But it wouldnt be wrong claiming that someone is an idiot for actually being one. But in any case I will stop calling him that.
 
SKILMATIC said:
You have done no such demonstration other than find editorials from the Washington Post which is a biast approach just like all other medias.

If you are going to dicredit by pulling the "bias card" please provide evidence. Otherwise, it does not lend credibility to your argument!

Your absolutley right. But it would be wrong claiming that one is an idiot for expressing opinions. But it wouldnt be wrong claiming that someone is an idiot for actually being one. But in any case I will stop calling him that.

THANK YOU!! :)
 
And hey, you attacked me for using anecdotal evidence (when I had done no such thing) while I'm supposed to take your anecdotal evidence as gospel, when you are obviously incredibly partisan and don't want to hear a bad word about Bush's presidency.
Today 04:57 PM

Well becasue it was anecdotal. Mine isnt. Do you even know what anecdotal means? My evidence are facts due to me being in the military!!! I think I would have a more fine understanding then someone who isnt even in this country who is reading biased approaches which miles well be tabloids at a supermarket.

I have no biased approach watsoever becasue I am in the Military and I unlike some know what the GI BILL SAYS!!!. Agaain let me make myself quite clear. Please tell me what the benefits entail. Becasue if you dont evenknow this then how do you really know that the benefits arent good already?
 
The Washington Post is only one of many publications cited in the articles I have posted, and I don't know about the London Post (never heard of it, must be a local) but if I were to cite the London Times, I would be citing perhaps one of the most respected publications in the world, a conservative publication at that.
 
when you are obviously incredibly partisan and don't want to hear a bad word about Bush's presidency

HEY NOW THATS NOT TRUE AT ALL. And ban the electoral college can vouch for this. I have been very opposed to some of the things bush is doing and what bush isnt doing. I again bring the subject up about the mexican border. Me and ban are on the same page on that one. So please do not accuse me of something I did not do or say. I never accused you of such things everything was direct quoted from you when I was talking about you and what you said.
 
Here let me post this again for him. I have a feeling he didnt quite get it.

I have no biased approach watsoever becasue I am in the Military and I unlike some know what the GI BILL SAYS!!!. Agaain let me make myself quite clear. Please tell me what the benefits entail. Becasue if you dont evenknow this then how do you really know that the benefits arent good already?

Until you answer this question 100% correct then i will not even continue with this rediculous debate casue it isnt a debate. Its more like someone blind telling a man, who can see, that the color blue is really red.
 
SKILMATIC said:
Well becasue it was anecdotal. Mine isnt. Do you even know what anecdotal means? My evidence are facts due to me being in the military!!! I think I would have a more fine understanding then someone who isnt even in this country who is reading biased approaches which miles well be tabloids at a supermarket.

I have no biased approach watsoever becasue I am in the Military and I unlike some know what the GI BILL SAYS!!!. Agaain let me make myself quite clear. Please tell me what the benefits entail. Becasue if you dont evenknow this then how do you really know that the benefits arent good already?

Actually, anecdotal refers to casual observations, rather than scientific ones, your own personal experience out of what must be millions of vets and soldiers would I think qualify. And hey, I only know what I read, but I do know that the GI Bill was signed previous to Bush's ascent to power so I don't see how it's relevant.

And once again, my articles cite veterans, and no Clinton didn't do enough for vets, neither is Bush, stop giving him a free pass for what I still deem ideological reasons, read my articles, they're not my opinions, but the opinions of U.S. vets. I don't know what the G.I. Bill says, just what the VFW is saying, since I quoted them a couple of times. Why aren't you angry he isn't providing enough support for you and your family as other U.S. vets seem to be.
 
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Three days before President Bush spent the Memorial Day weekend thanking the nation's veterans for their service, he proposed slashing their health care by $1 billion next year.

The Bush administration's memo proposing a 3.4 percent cut in the Veterans Administration budget for 2005, from $29.7 billion to $28.7 billion, follows other cutbacks in health care for veterans since George W. Bush became president.

The White House has tried to close veterans hospitals throughout the country and has proposed veterans health care budgets that have been criticized by veterans groups and the president's own Veterans Affairs secretary.

Early last year, 164,000 veterans were cut from their existing prescription drug coverage. President Bush has threatened to veto any bill that would allow veterans to receive both the military pension they were promised and any disability compensation to which they are entitled.
 
Bush Cuts Rescinded to Education, Medicaid, Veterans
The Senate struck a resounding bipartisan blow Thursday against President Bush’s cold-hearted 2006 budget proposal by rescinding billions in Bush cuts to education, local community services, medical care for veterans, local Homeland Security precautions, transportation and health care for the poor, young, elderly and disabled.
The vote was a strong rebuke of the Bush ideology to radically cut all federal services to US citizens while dramatically increasing military and defense budgets. Many Americans, and members of Congress, called the Bush 2006 budget immoral.

All 100 Senators (44 Democrats, 55 Republicans, 1 Independent) voted late into the night on 26 amendments, to craft a surprising fiscal 2006 budget before they left for a two-week Easter recess to face voters back at home.

Veterans Medical Care – The Senate voted 96 to 4 to add $410 million to fund medical services for US veterans. Bush had proposed raising co-payments and eligibility requirements for benefits.

Transportation/Amtrak – The Senate voted 81 to 19 to “provide flexibility to consider all available transportation funding options.” Thus, Amtrak has not been shutdown and forced into bankruptcy, as the President desires.

Medicaid – The Senate voted 52 to 48 to restore all of the $14 billion in Medicaid cuts in the Bush budget over five years. Medicaid is government health insurance for the poor, children, elderly, pregnant women and disabled.

Education – The Senate voted 51 to 49 to restore billions in Bush cuts to education programs for US students and communities. Most of the cuts targeted economically disadvantaged neighborhood schools and immigrant populations.

Community Development Block Grants – The Senate voted 68 to 31 to rollback all $4.7 billion in Bush cuts and changes to grants given to local communities to redevelop and provide services to distressed neighborhoods and small business districts. These programs have proven to be lifelines of survival for many US towns and cities.

Homeland Security – The Senate voted 63 to 37 to restore $565 million in Bush cuts to local first responder services (fire, police, emergency) for Homeland Security. It also includes $150 million for vital port security grants; and $140 million for 1,000 additional border patrol agents. The 9/11 Commission recommended adding 2,000 border patrol agents, yet the Bush budget provided for only 200 new border patrols agents.

Health and Education – The Senate voted 63 to 37 to increase discretionary health and education funding by $2 billion. Bush decimated numerous public health services including the Centers for Disease Control, Administration for Children & Families and the office of Health & Human Service Secretary, a cabinet-level post.

Agriculture – In an odd win for President Bush, the Senate left unchanged $2.8 billion in farm subsidy cuts. The win is odd for this conservative President because it affects mainly Republican “red states.”

What’s next? A compromise must now be formulated between the Senate 2006 budget, and the House budget, which closely follows that set forth by President Bush.

The Senate has cleverly packaged its budget to make it alluring to President Bush, despite the spending increases. On Wednesday, the Senate attached an amendment to its budget to allow oil drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, a cherished decades-long dream for black-gold hungry Texas oil men. If the Senate budget does not pass, the drilling measure is doomed.

Also, a bit inexplicably, both the House and Senate passed and even added to proposed Bush tax cuts for the wealthy. The tax cuts should also entice Mr. Bush to accept the Senate spending measures.

What does it mean? This show of political courage and activism by the US Senate means a couple things. It means that Senators, both Democratic and Republican, are not afraid of President Bush amid his dwindling political might and appeal. It means that they’re more afraid to face voters back home who have suffered cutbacks in education, health benefits, medical services for veterans, vital city and homeland security services and more.

It also means that the Senators hear the growing chorus of outraged American voices from across the political spectrum, from liberals and independents to Republicans and all religious faiths.

Senator Gordon Smith (R-OR), who proposed the amendment to rescind Medicaid cuts, asked that the Senate take time to carefully study potential Medicaid savings. He echoed the sentiments of many when he objected to cutting the program because it “serves the lame, the poor, the blind, the needy, those who have no resources if we pull away this central strand in the safety net.”

All “faith and values” voters, whether Democrat or Republican, must feel relieved by the Senate’s rebuke of the President’s mean-spirited, anti-education, anti-veterans, anti-poor, anti-healthcare, anti-local budget.
 
I don't know what the G.I. Bill says,

Ok then, you need to stop trying to preach to someone about our benefits and who they came from.

Why aren't you angry he isn't providing enough support for you and your families as other U.S. vets seem to be.

Enough support? O beelive me we have plenty of support as I already exclaimed in earlier posts on this thread I would encourage you to simply read them thank you. That is why when someone says Bush isnt doing anything for the vets is when I will reem that person a new asshole, :lol: Becasue thats what you said in your first statement about this subject and then you tried to change it to "well it was his intent". Cause you stated it was actually congress(legislature)who passed these bills under bushes admin. Which tells me your all over the place.

But beleive me when i tell you we have all the support we need. The only thing I would ask is that we get a 3in armor plate all around our humvees. This would severely decrease the number of injuries. Cause we use humvess for nearly 75% of all transportation.
 
You owe thanks to the Senate and House for dismantling Bush cuts. And in turn the U.S. citizenry, including those in the Senate owe you their thanks, but at least they're trying, Bush is an ungrateful little pr**k who doesn't value your sacrifices as the Senate and House seem to.
 
Now you are talking civilian benefits and giving to the military which is what I just stated. And do you even know wha medical is to our vets? Do you know what type of vets these are? Please explain to me what this entails. I want to know if you know anything about this subject instead of posting links from biased websites?

Cause I will tell you again, if this is all you can bring me you will not be very credible in your argument.
 
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