• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Bush Invades Privacy

Navy Pride said:
The point I am trying to make to you and I guess its not getting through is when it comes to protecting this country things have changed since 1780........

Maybe so, and it will always change, but if we sacrifice our liberty, then what are we protecting?

Moreover, if things are changing, then change the law, dont just ignore it. We are a nation of laws, not a nation of men. No one, not even the president is above the law.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Maybe so, and it will always change, but if we sacrifice our liberty, then what are we protecting?

Moreover, if things are changing, then change the law, dont just ignore it. We are a nation of laws, not a nation of men. No one, not even the president is above the law.

Again what good is your privacy in regards to someone reading your library records if your dead?
 
Originally posted by Navy Pride:
Again what good is your privacy in regards to someone reading your library records if your dead?]
Well I'm not dead and I don't f_cking like it.
 
Billo_Really said:
Well I'm not dead and I don't f_cking like it.

You might be dead if you keep trying to keep the intelligence agencies from doing their jobs.............
 
Originally posted by Navy Pride:
You might be dead if you keep trying to keep the intelligence agencies from doing their jobs.............
I don't have a problem when they do their jobs without breaking the law. But when they break the law while doing their jobs, I've got a major problem with it. Get your god-damn information some other way.
 
Billo_Really said:
I don't have a problem when they do their jobs without breaking the law. But when they break the law while doing their jobs, I've got a major problem with it. Get your god-damn information some other way.

Sometimes it just does not work that way....Desperate times require desperate measures and what Liberals forget that these are desperate times......You are the infidel.........Terrorists want you dead......You realized that on 9/12/01 but since we have not had another attack you have seen to forgotten that..........
 
Originally posted by Navy Pride:
Sometimes it just does not work that way....Desperate times require desperate measures and what Liberals forget that these are desperate times......You are the infidel.........Terrorists want you dead......You realized that on 9/12/01 but since we have not had another attack you have seen to forgotten that..........
Sorry NP, I don't buy this lame rap.
 
Billo_Really said:
Sorry NP, I don't buy this lame rap.

Why am I not surprised? I wonder if you will feel the same way if God forbid your city is hit and millions are killed? Would you be willing to give up your library card then?
 
Originally posted by Navy Pride:
Why am I not surprised? I wonder if you will feel the same way if God forbid your city is hit and millions are killed? Would you be willing to give up your library card then?
The sky is falling, the sky is falling. Sorry dude, I ain't no chicken little either.
 
Navy Pride, you keep pointing out that we have not had an attack since 9/11. That's all fine and dandy, but how many attacks did we have on American soil before then?
 
Stace said:
Navy Pride, you keep pointing out that we have not had an attack since 9/11. That's all fine and dandy, but how many attacks did we have on American soil before then?

Didn't we Canadians attack you with out pea shooters and sling-shots?

Oops, sorry, my bad. I think I'm getting an episode of South Park confused with reality.:lol:
 
Originally posted by Navy Pride:
Navy Pride, you keep pointing out that we have not had an attack since 9/11. That's all fine and dandy, but how many attacks did we have on American soil before then?
You know what I would like to hear from NP, a criticism of the present Administration. I would like to hear him say one thing he thinks Bush did that was a mistake. Or something he thinks, in his opinion, was wrong. Otherwise, its nothing more than hero worship.
 
Billo_Really said:
The sky is falling, the sky is falling. Sorry dude, I ain't no chicken little either.

So Dude you don't worry about a terrorist attack? I wonder if you felt the same way on 9/12/01? :roll: I know I didn't........I thought that was the first of many attacks and thanks to the PA and intelligence gathering we have not had another attack..........

You can call it and accident and not give any credit to this administration or the president but I won't do that........If Clinton was the president I would feel exactly the same way.......
 
Originally posted by Navy Pride:
So Dude you don't worry about a terrorist attack? I wonder if you felt the same way on 9/12/01? I know I didn't........I thought that was the first of many attacks and thanks to the PA and intelligence gathering we have not had another attack..........

You can call it and accident and not give any credit to this administration or the president but I won't do that........If Clinton was the president I would feel exactly the same way.......
I am completly in favor of supporting my country. I am also completly against breaking the law. Where's the middle ground? I don't know.
 
Billo_Really said:
I am completly in favor of supporting my country. I am also completly against breaking the law. Where's the middle ground? I don't know.

Well you did not answer my question but that is OK........I can tell you though if it saves millions of lives I am willing to give up a lot....Like I said all those so called rights that you say are being violated, and I doubt many are, don't mean squat if your dead............
 
Stace said:
Navy Pride, you keep pointing out that we have not had an attack since 9/11. That's all fine and dandy, but how many attacks did we have on American soil before then?

Continental USA just WTC1 but some of us think the attack on 9/11/01 made it a whole new ball game and the Liberals like you felt the same way on 9/12/01 that is why we were able to get protection like the PA approved almost unanimously but since we have had another attack it seems a lot of our friends on the left like billo don't believe there is a threat anymore........
 
Navy Pride said:
Continental USA just WTC1 but some of us think the attack on 9/11/01 made it a whole new ball game and the Liberals like you felt the same way on 9/12/01 that is why we were able to get protection like the PA approved almost unanimously but since we have had another attack it seems a lot of our friends on the left like billo don't believe there is a threat anymore........

But see, this is exactly the point I was trying to prove. ONE attack that you can name. And golly gee, that was all before the Patriot Act existed!

9/11 saddened and angered me, but I didn't change a thing about my life afterwards. It certainly didn't scare me into NOT joining the military, though a lot of people thought I was crazy for not backing out.

I don't worry about another attack, because what's the point? If it's meant to happen, it will. I am a firm believer that things happen for a reason.

I'd rather die free than live scared.
 
Navy Pride said:
Continental USA just WTC1 but some of us think the attack on 9/11/01 made it a whole new ball game and the Liberals like you felt the same way on 9/12/01 that is why we were able to get protection like the PA approved almost unanimously but since we have had another attack it seems a lot of our friends on the left like billo don't believe there is a threat anymore........

LOL, NP, do you think that 9/11 was planned the week before? :lol:

Should another mass attack happen -- hopefully it will not -- do you not think it would take years? And who excatly is planning this attack? Osama, the guy you let get away, or some Iraqis, with three mules and a goat?






BOO!
(did I scare ya?) LOL
 
Stinger said:
The Bush adminsistration has been engaged peeking into the lives of innocent citizens and thier private affairs from day one. I'm talking about the income tax system. Each year they require each of us, at least the vast majority who have any kind of income, to give up our privacy and tell the government how much we make, where we make it, what we spend much of it on, how much we spend on medical care and where, how much we pay for our mortagages, how much we save and on and on and on. ALL WITHOUT A COURT ORDER AND THE THREAT OF JAIL IF WE DON'T COMPLY.

If privacy is sooooooooooooo important to all the leftist here, then how can you possible support Bush doing this to us all?
1. Collecting taxes is Constitutionally legal. Spying without a court order is not.
2. The IRS cannot reveal to anyone outside of the IRS your tax return information without a court order.
3. This is a ridiculous debate as the premise seems to be to convince people that giving up your civil rights is the way to go. That, to me, is pathetic.
 
Middleground said:
LOL, NP, do you think that 9/11 was planned the week before? :lol:

Should another mass attack happen -- hopefully it will not -- do you not think it would take years? And who excatly is planning this attack? Osama, the guy you let get away, or some Iraqis, with three mules and a goat?






BOO!
(did I scare ya?) LOL

No it was planned during the Clinton Administration as Able Danger tells us and might have been avoided if Clinton was not to busy with Lewinsky.....

I don't know how long it will take for another attack will take but I sure thought on 9/12/01 we would of had plenty of them to include some suicide bombers......It does not take a huge planning effort for them.......

And as far as Bin laden goes don't you find it odd we have not heard from him in over a year..........He is probably dead....Whipped out by the earthquake or some other way...........He has become a non factor either way.......
 
Stace said:
But see, this is exactly the point I was trying to prove. ONE attack that you can name. And golly gee, that was all before the Patriot Act existed!

9/11 saddened and angered me, but I didn't change a thing about my life afterwards. It certainly didn't scare me into NOT joining the military, though a lot of people thought I was crazy for not backing out.

I don't worry about another attack, because what's the point? If it's meant to happen, it will. I am a firm believer that things happen for a reason.

I'd rather die free than live scared.

Well stace l have seen men die in war and 9/11/01 scared the hell out of me.I guess your just braver then me because like I said I expected many attacks after that day....I am and old codger so I myself and not afraid of dying but I think about my family and I fear for them........I have 4 kids and several grandchildren that I want to have a long safe life.....

Maybe you don't worry about another attack and that is your choice but I am glad we have people in our government that do worry about one and protect us in spite of people that don't want that protection.........
 
Navy Pride said:
Yeah I have heard that quote from BF.......When was that 1780? Don't think BF had to worry about dirty nuclear bombs killing millions of American then..do you?:roll:
WOW! :roll: You just posted that the Constitution of the United States is not valid anymore? Surely you mean something else, right? You inadvertantly posted what you wrote?

The principles of the Constitution and men like Ben Franklin has kept America great for 230 years but you're no OK with George Bush dismantling everything America stands for? WOW!

Tell you what, I'll put my eggs in the Ben Franklin, Constitution basket everytime before letting Bush trash our country.

What's even more remarkable is that you, Navy Pride have posted zillions of times, for example:
Navy Pride said:
They would all be great choices but I would love to see Janis Rogers Brown....A female who is African American, a true Conservative and a strict constructionist.
http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=128249&postcount=97
Navy Pride said:
I know President Bush will keep his promise and nominate a well qualified person who interprets the constitution and who is a strict constructionist.
http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=99672&postcount=52

So when it comes to nominating someone for the Supreme Court you're all for a "strict constructionist" who will interpret the Constitution as our Founding Fathers intended it....except now when you want the Constitution intpreted to suit your Unamerican spying?

Yup, yup, yup....:damn
 
Navy Pride said:
No it was planned during the Clinton Administration as Able Danger tells us and might have been avoided if Clinton was not to busy with Lewinsky.
When does the lies and the Clinton bashing end from you? Huh?

You just made an accusation that you wrote as FACT, namely that "Able Danger" would have prevented 9-11 IF Clinton had somehow listened to the report. I say this is NOT TRUE and I am DEMANDING that you provide a creditable link that proves what you've written as FACT.

The fact that I've already provided links from the 9-11 Commission Co-Chairs clearly stating that the Able Danger report is not creditable and that it did not provide any information that would have made any difference...I will prove my side, here it is....
Allow me to provide the truth as it is known today, as was discussed on Meet The Press on December 4th. Ready?
Quote:
MR. RUSSERT: A few weeks ago I had the former director of the FBI, Louis Freeh, on this program, and he was very pointed on some comments about your commission. And he wrote this piece for The Wall Street Journal. Let me walk you through it: "Why Did the 9-11 Commission Ignore `Able Danger'? Recent revelations from the military intelligence operation code-named `Able Danger' have cast light on a missed opportunity that could have potentially prevented 9/11. Specifically, Able Danger concluded in February 2000 that military experts had identified Mohamed Atta by name (and maybe by photograph) as an al-Qaeda agent operating in the U.S. Subsequently, military officers assigned to Able Danger were prevented from sharing this critical information with FBI agents, even though appointments had been made to do so. Why?...

"Was Able Danger intelligence provided to the 9-11 Commission prior to the finalization of its report, and, if so, why was it not explored? In sum, what did the 9/11 commissioners and their staff know about Able Danger and when did they know it? ...the 9-11 Commission inexplicably concluded that it `was not historically significant.' This astounding conclusion--in combination with the failure to investigate Able Danger and incorporate it into its findings--raises serious challenges to the commission's credibility and, if the facts prove out, might just render the commission historically insignificant itself."

MR. HAMILTON: Well, that's a big "if" on the end there. Look, we looked at Able Danger very, very carefully. We do not think there was anything there of great significance. Now, something could come out in the future. I don't know. But in Mr. Freeh's article he did not present any new evidence at all. Our investigators were informed about Able Danger. We requested all of the documents relating to Able Danger. We reviewed these documents. We had investigators meet with some of these people in Afghanistan and other places. The bottom line is that they can furnish no documentary evidence to support their charges that they had a chart, for example, with Mohamed Atta's name on it. It is...

MR. RUSSERT: Congressman Weldon of Pennsylvania says he gave that chart to the national security advisor.

MR. HAMILTON: And the national security advisor denied that he ever got it. That was the assistant, Stephen Hadley, not Condi Rice, at the time. We have not seen that chart. We have not seen Mohamed Atta's name in any documentation prior to 9/11. Believe me, we know the name of Atta and we would have been alert to it. We just need evidence to support these charges. We don't accuse anyone here of bad intentions. But the people that have brought forward this information have not given us any documentation. They were not involved in the analysis of it themselves. Their recollections in some respects--for example, the whereabouts of Mohamed Atta--simply are not accurate. We have documentation to show that. So we need to have more evidence, and Mr. Freeh's article simply did not bring forward any new evidence. We concluded--the staff concluded, not the commission--that this information was not valid, that there was too much doubt about it.

Source: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10266650/from/RL.5/

OK Navy Pride, it's your serve, please support your claim about ABLE DANGER....or please, please stop making it....
 
Navy Pride said:
Again what good is your privacy in regards to someone reading your library records if your dead?

What kind of country do we leave to our children if we are such cowards that we giveaway our liberty for the promise of more security?

I really just don’t think you get it. You seem to think that our founding principles, the liberty that so many have died protecting for us, is irrelevant now. The very principles that you are willing to trade for some promise of more security are the very principles that our founding fathers declared their independence from King George to grant us. No one ever said that the price of freedom would not have to be paid on our soil.
 
26 X World Champs said:
When does the lies and the Clinton bashing end from you? Huh?

You just made an accusation that you wrote as FACT, namely that "Able Danger" would have prevented 9-11 IF Clinton had somehow listened to the report. I say this is NOT TRUE and I am DEMANDING that you provide a creditable link that proves what you've written as FACT.

The fact that I've already provided links from the 9-11 Commission Co-Chairs clearly stating that the Able Danger report is not creditable and that it did not provide any information that would have made any difference...I will prove my side, here it is....
Allow me to provide the truth as it is known today, as was discussed on Meet The Press on December 4th. Ready?


Source: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10266650/from/RL.5/

OK Navy Pride, it's your serve, please support your claim about ABLE DANGER....or please, please stop making it....

You will find out when "The Slickster" is called to the hearings on Able Danger......He will have to have his dancing shoes on for that one......I just hope they are public........It will be fun to watch him squirm.........
 
Back
Top Bottom