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Bush: Genesis of Lebanon war! (1 Viewer)

Did Bush influence the latest conflict in Lebanon at summit meeting with Ohmert?

  • Yes

    Votes: 3 50.0%
  • No

    Votes: 3 50.0%

  • Total voters
    6

Billo_Really

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Three days after the May 23 summit between Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and U.S. President George W. Bush, a car bomb killed two officials of Islamic Jihad [brothers Nidal and Mahmoud Majzoub] in the Lebanese city of Sidon. The man responsible [Mahmoud Rafeh], was a member of the Israeli terrorist organization Mossad.

In retrospect, the Majzoub assassination looks to have been part of a larger U.S.-Israeli strategy – following the Olmert-Bush summit – to encourage a tit-for-tat escalation of violence that would ratchet up pressure on Palestinian and Lebanese militants – and through them their allies in Syria and Iran.


http://www.consortiumnews.com/2006/080806.html
I guess Iraq didn't teach ole George any lessons after all. This is why muslim's are so mad at us. For interferring in their affairs to the point of killing their citizens. If we would just stop this bullshit of sticking our nose where it doesn't belong, then a lot of this hatred would not be as intense. At least not to the point of flying planes into our buildings.

One thing is for sure, we are contributing to their hatred with our foreign policy aggressions.
 
Billo_Really said:
I guess Iraq didn't teach ole George any lessons after all. This is why muslim's are so mad at us. For interferring in their affairs to the point of killing their citizens. If we would just stop this bullshit of sticking our nose where it doesn't belong, then a lot of this hatred would not be as intense. At least not to the point of flying planes into our buildings.

One thing is for sure, we are contributing to their hatred with our foreign policy aggressions.
I'm not too sure of a conspiracy involving bush and Israel to purposly escalate tensions. However I am certain that our current policy toward the arab world is indeed causing much more unrest and hatred towards the US. Why? Because we're doing exactly what the religious fundamentals preech we would do. Rob thier lands, kill their ppl, rape thier woman and so on. Iran's fundamentalist regime is garnnering more and more support while the moderates are being shoved out of power and silenced.
We contained the soviets and thier ideology quite well, but perhaps it had more to do with MAD then anything else.
The middle east is nuke free (at lest for now) and lightyears behind us in capabilities, we are an unchallenged superpower, making military action all the more easy (like killing a bee). It seems the simplar resolution, yet forget that when you kill one bee, you attract more, and eventually the entire hive comes after you, even though bees are relatively docile. But they will give up thier lives easily when they feel threatened.
Right now the US is indeed a perceived threat and though minor our screw ups can be, they're greatly amplified through further preeching of the religious fundamentals with "I told you so".
 
"I guess Iraq didn't teach ole George any lessons after all. This is why muslim's are so mad at us. For interferring in their affairs to the point of killing their citizens. If we would just stop this bullshit of sticking our nose where it doesn't belong, then a lot of this hatred would not be as intense. At least not to the point of flying planes into our buildings.

One thing is for sure, we are contributing to their hatred with our foreign policy aggressions."

I'm curious...do you think we should interfere say with North Korea or Iran or any other country that wants to make nuclear bombs?


The planes flew into the buildings before the Iraq war started remember.

Do you really think that we target innocent civilians to kill?

I believe terrorists deliberately target innocent noncombatants based on religion, race and nationality as well as targeting random civilians who happen to be in a given place at a given time.
You think we do this?

Do you think that we deliberately target entire civilian populations to wipe out? Was that our intention of going into Iraq?
 
Originally posted by doughgirl
I'm curious...do you think we should interfere say with North Korea or Iran or any other country that wants to make nuclear bombs?
No. Respect the right of sovereign nations. Then, if they do use a nuke, we barbacue their country!

Originally posted by doughgirl
The planes flew into the buildings before the Iraq war started remember.
In part, as a result of our troops in Saudi Arabia.

Originally posted by doughgirl
Do you really think that we target innocent civilians to kill?
After Fallujah, Ischagi and Haditha, why would you even ask that question?

Originally posted by doughgirl
I believe terrorists deliberately target innocent noncombatants based on religion, race and nationality as well as targeting random civilians who happen to be in a given place at a given time.
You think we do this?
That is wrong no matter who does it. The only difference between the terrorists targeting civilians and our soldiers targeting civilians is that we don't make excuses for the terrorists.

Originally posted by doughgirl
Do you think that we deliberately target entire civilian populations to wipe out? Was that our intention of going into Iraq?
We destroyed 75% of a city the size of Long Beach, California. A city of 300,000 people. Most of them now live in tents. Fallujah is a ghost town. However, it wasn't our intent to invade Iraq just so we could wipe out Fallujah. Were there to facillitate globalization and dominate the natural resources of that part of the world.
 
Originally posted by jfuh:
I'm not too sure of a conspiracy involving bush and Israel to purposly escalate tensions. However I am certain that our current policy toward the arab world is indeed causing much more unrest and hatred towards the US. Why? Because we're doing exactly what the religious fundamentals preech we would do. Rob thier lands, kill their ppl, rape thier woman and so on. Iran's fundamentalist regime is garnnering more and more support while the moderates are being shoved out of power and silenced.
We contained the soviets and thier ideology quite well, but perhaps it had more to do with MAD then anything else.
The middle east is nuke free (at lest for now) and lightyears behind us in capabilities, we are an unchallenged superpower, making military action all the more easy (like killing a bee). It seems the simplar resolution, yet forget that when you kill one bee, you attract more, and eventually the entire hive comes after you, even though bees are relatively docile. But they will give up thier lives easily when they feel threatened.
Right now the US is indeed a perceived threat and though minor our screw ups can be, they're greatly amplified through further preeching of the religious fundamentals with "I told you so".
If you go to that link I posted and read that article in light of the backdrop with DSM, this current situation is almost a carbon copy of how Bush went to war with Iraq.
 
Billo_Really said:
If you go to that link I posted and read that article in light of the backdrop with DSM, this current situation is almost a carbon copy of how Bush went to war with Iraq.
Yes, that's the issue I have with the article.
I don't have disagreement with facilitation to dominate the natural resources. Afterall I've been making the question to our "conservatives" on this forum as to why knowing factually that OBL is in Afganistan why we would go into IRaq over questionable intel of the presence and ties with AQ - yet to no response as of yet.
I don't hide the fact that I dispise this administration for total incompetance and the simple fact that they only care of the interests of thier oil buddies not the overall good of the american ppl. That being said, I simply don't buy the story in the link you posted. Is it possible? Sure, but the current rxn to war is already a big enough trouble for the administration as is, it's completely back fired on the administration thus far, what with the mission accomplished banner and all.
Finally, with the track record this administration has on leaking intel I honestly doubt of thier competance in keeping this "story" under taps. They're simply too incompetant.
 
Originally posted by jfuh:
Yes, that's the issue I have with the article.
I don't have disagreement with facilitation to dominate the natural resources. Afterall I've been making the question to our "conservatives" on this forum as to why knowing factually that OBL is in Afganistan why we would go into IRaq over questionable intel of the presence and ties with AQ - yet to no response as of yet.
I don't hide the fact that I dispise this administration for total incompetance and the simple fact that they only care of the interests of thier oil buddies not the overall good of the american ppl. That being said, I simply don't buy the story in the link you posted. Is it possible? Sure, but the current rxn to war is already a big enough trouble for the administration as is, it's completely back fired on the administration thus far, what with the mission accomplished banner and all.
Finally, with the track record this administration has on leaking intel I honestly doubt of thier competance in keeping this "story" under taps. They're simply too incompetant.
That maybe so. But I think it is a little more than a coincedence that things started happening after that.

In a speech to a joint session of Congress on May 24, Olmert called the possibility of Iran building a nuclear weapon “an existential threat” to Israel, meaning that Israel believed its very existence was in danger.

Two days later, the car bomb killed the Majzoub brothers in Sidon and a new cycle of escalation began. In reaction to the assassinations, Islamic militants fired rockets into Israel, which, in turn, counter-attacked killing one Hezbollah fighter.

Tensions rose further when fighting between Israelis and Palestinians resumed in Gaza. On the night of June 23, Israeli commandos crossed into Gaza and seized Osama and Mustafa Abu Muamar, two sons of Hamas activist Ali Muamar. [BBC, June 24, 2006]

Early on the morning of June 24, Hamas militants snuck into Israel via a tunnel from Gaza and attacked an Israel patrol, killing two soldiers and capturing Corporal Gilad Shalit as a part of a demand for a prisoner exchange. Israel is reported to hold about 10,000 Palestinian prisoners.

On June 27, as these tensions mounted, Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas was still working to advance a possible peace settlement with Israel. Abbas coaxed the more radical Hamas, which controls the Palestinian parliament, into endorsing a document proposing a Palestinian state alongside Israel.

Abbas’s success represented a potential breakthrough in a border settlement with Israel, since Hamas implicitly was accepting Israel as a neighbor next to an independent Palestinian state.

But the next day, June 28, Olmert sent the Israeli army crashing into Gaza to avenge the “kidnapping” of Shalit, a phrasing that the U.S. news media immediately adopted in blaming Hamas for instigating the crisis.

As the Israeli army overwhelmed scattered Palestinian resistance and began “detaining” – not “kidnapping” – Hamas legislators, tensions were also mounting on the Israeli-Lebanese border. On July 12, Hezbollah forces attacked an Israeli border outpost, killing three soldiers and capturing – or “kidnapping” – two others, also seeking a prisoner exchange.

The July 12 incident opened up the floodgates of violence. Israel launched a broad air-and-ground offensive aimed at crushing Hezbollah by blasting apart its strongholds in south Lebanon and destroying much of Lebanon’s economic infrastructure, from roads to communications. Hezbollah launched hundreds of Katyusha rockets into northern Israel.

Besides the almost 1,000 Lebanese who have died, an estimated one million – or about one-fourth of Lebanon's population – were displaced from their homes. The Israeli death toll, both military and civilian, stood at about 100.


http://www.consortiumnews.com/2006/080806.html
Just a little too much of a coincedence.
 
IMO there are many similarities between what Hitler said he would do to the Jews and what many Islamic leaders are saying they intend to do to the Jews and we Americans.

I’ll site just a few.

Dr. Atallah Abu al-SAbh who is a writer for the Hamas newspaper wrote this discussing anthrax.

“If I may give you a word of advice, enter the air of those “symbols” (America and Israel), the water faucets from which they drink and the pens with which they draft their traps and conspiracies against the wretched peoples…turn bodies of the tyrants into matches slowly and gradually.”

Sheikh Omar Bakri Muhammed, the London based founder of Hizb al-Tahrir (Islamic Liberation Party) said in an interview:

“American people must reconsider their foreign policy or their children will be sent back to them in coffins (especially because of the stationing of troops in the Middle East)…(the existence of Israel) is a crime. Israel must be removed….Our duty is to work to establish an Islamic state anywhere in the world, even in Britain.”

Muhammed Mustagab in his column for the Egyptian newspaper Al-Usbu described his reaction to watching the world trade center towers fall:

(Those moments of) exquisite, incandescent hell were the most beautiful and precious of my life…..The generations of the past, and with Allahs help, the generations to come, will envy us for having witnessed these images.”

Why Terrorism Works by Alan Dershowitz (page 225)


If we do not prevent these countries from getting access to WMD we are doomed. Because they will do anything to destroy those countries that aren’t Islamic.
And we are one of them. We are high on their list. They have and will succeed in killing hundreds of thousands of people-even more if we do not stop them. Pulling out of Iraq and bring our troops home with our tails between our legs is suicide.
Whether they succeed or fail will depend on many factors including our preparedness to prevent such attacks.
 
Originally posted by doughgirl
IMO there are many similarities between what Hitler said he would do to the Jews and what many Islamic leaders are saying they intend to do to the Jews and we Americans.

I’ll site just a few.
You don't see that your just dealing with the symptoms and not the cause of the problem?
 
"You don't see that your just dealing with the symptoms and not the cause of the problem?"

There are many causes but the big ones religion. If you think the Muslims in the Middle East do not think this is a holy war you are wrong, because they do. Its all about religion over there. There is no freedom of religion, separation of chruch and state. Its all about the Covenant between God and Abraham a fact they deny.

I think jealousy has a lot to do with it too. IMO its all about their own ineptitude. They are envious of everyone who gets ahead of them. And the truth is....almost everyone in the world is ahead of them. They are primitive, backward and cultic in their faith and they blame everyone but themselves for their problems. They own the richest land in the world. If they were so brilliant... earth could be an absolute paradise for them.

That is why the Jews are so successful. They sit on hardly any land at all, they have been attacked , slaughtered and still survive. And look what they have done in the process. They are very brilliant people, another reason they are hated.

Today its certainly popular to hate Bush and Israel.

How quick we forget about Clintons fiasco in Somalia......the Muslims quickly took over that place and established sharia law. I remember when they assembled 13 or so? thieves in a stadium and to the crowds enjoyment they leisurely sawed off the hands and feet off. The more they sawed the more the thieves screamed and the crowd cheered. This they called righteousness.

If we turn our backs to what is going on in the world like Clinton did.........this one day could be a reality in some American stadium. They are pouring into Mexico and Canada and whats our Musllim population today here......15 million?

Funny but if you look at Europe a very small percentage of Muslims have taken over and changed the political policies in France, GErmany.......England. The same could happen here. And I am sure the ACLU would be more than happy to help them achieve their goals.

I read last week that there are over 100 Mosques in New York alone. There are 50 in Minnesota. Gee if we are forced one day to all convert to Islam we wont have far to go to find a mosque will we?
Did you ever wonder why Muslims congregate in primarily Democratic states? :rofl
The biggest populations are in Michigan, New York, Minnesota. Liberal Americans throw out the red carpet for them with good intentions but do not comprehend the differences between this minority which wishes to take over the nation. All one needs to do is to look at past history. Muslims have been taking over nations for years. they have the Eastern hemisphere........now they are workin on the western one. :confused:

Anyone who cant see this has their head in the sand. We will increasingly become a Muslim dominated society and we will deteriorate like most Arab states do.
Denial........we can deny this all we want, we can talk about being tolerant, being politically correct and making our American Muslim friends feel at home. But......the fact still remains that they are still infiltrating and intend to take our country over and we had better start now before its to late.
 
Originally posted by doughgirl
There are many causes but the big ones religion. If you think the Muslims in the Middle East do not think this is a holy war you are wrong, because they do. Its all about religion over there. There is no freedom of religion, separation of chruch and state. Its all about the Covenant between God and Abraham a fact they deny.
Do you personnally know any muslim's?

Originally posted by doughgirl
I think jealousy has a lot to do with it too. IMO its all about their own ineptitude. They are envious of everyone who gets ahead of them. And the truth is....almost everyone in the world is ahead of them.
And you know this how?

Originally posted by doughgirl
They are primitive, backward and cultic in their faith and they blame everyone but themselves for their problems.
You mean kind of like what your doing now?

Originally posted by doughgirl
They own the richest land in the world. If they were so brilliant... earth could be an absolute paradise for them.
Maybe if we stopped bombing that richest land...

Originally posted by doughgirl
That is why the Jews are so successful. They sit on hardly any land at all, they have been attacked , slaughtered and still survive. And look what they have done in the process. They are very brilliant people, another reason they are hated.
And of coarse, it has nothing to do with their barbaric treatment of Palestinians and their total disregard for innocent muslim civilians.

Originally posted by doughgirl
Today its certainly popular to hate Bush and Israel.
But you'd rather play the blame game, than find out what that hatred is all about?

Originally posted by doughgirl
How quick we forget about Clintons fiasco in Somalia......the Muslims quickly took over that place and established sharia law. I remember when they assembled 13 or so? thieves in a stadium and to the crowds enjoyment they leisurely sawed off the hands and feet off. The more they sawed the more the thieves screamed and the crowd cheered. This they called righteousness.
Righteousness is invading a country and killing thousands of their citizens while saying it is for their own good.

Originally posted by doughgirl
If we turn our backs to what is going on in the world like Clinton did.........this one day could be a reality in some American stadium. They are pouring into Mexico and Canada and whats our Musllim population today here......15 million?
You keep saying "they", as if their one entity!

Originally posted by doughgirl
Funny but if you look at Europe a very small percentage of Muslims have taken over and changed the political policies in France, GErmany.......England. The same could happen here. And I am sure the ACLU would be more than happy to help them achieve their goals.

I read last week that there are over 100 Mosques in New York alone. There are 50 in Minnesota. Gee if we are forced one day to all convert to Islam we wont have far to go to find a mosque will we?
Did you ever wonder why Muslims congregate in primarily Democratic states?
The biggest populations are in Michigan, New York, Minnesota. Liberal Americans throw out the red carpet for them with good intentions but do not comprehend the differences between this minority which wishes to take over the nation. All one needs to do is to look at past history. Muslims have been taking over nations for years. they have the Eastern hemisphere........now they are workin on the western one.
I might be going out on a limb here, but didn't we invade them? Not the other way around. And looking back in recent history, the last time a muslim nation invaded someone, it was another muslim nation.

Originally posted by doughgirl
Anyone who cant see this has their head in the sand. We will increasingly become a Muslim dominated society and we will deteriorate like most Arab states do.
Denial........we can deny this all we want, we can talk about being tolerant, being politically correct and making our American Muslim friends feel at home. But......the fact still remains that they are still infiltrating and intend to take our country over and we had better start now before its to late.
You don't have to worry about that. Thanks to Bush, the United States doesn't exist any more.
 
Billo_Really said:
http://www.consortiumnews.com/2006/080806.html
Lol. You use consortiumnews.com as a source? Another bash-Bush-bash-Israel Internet outlet. Are you THAT desperate?
 
Seymour Hersh: U.S. Helped Plan Israeli Attack, Cheney "Convinced" Assault on Lebanon Could Serve as Prelude to Preemptive Attack on Iran
Monday, August 14th, 2006

Investigative journalist Seymour Hersh reports in this week's issue of the New Yorker that Israeli officials visited the White House earlier this summer to get a "green light" for an attack on Lebanon. The Bush administration approved, Hersh says, in part to remove Hezbollah as a deterrent to a potential US bombing of Iran.

Israel and Lebanon saw continued violence on the last day before a UN ceasefire. South Lebanon continued to come under intense Israeli bombardment Sunday. In the most lethal attack, fifteen Lebanese were reported killed after Israel bombed the village of Rachat. Meanwhile, Hezbollah launched more than 250 rockets into Northern Israel. It was the highest number of rockets Hezbollah has fired into Israel since fighting began. At least one Israeli was killed.

The past month's violence broke out after Hezbollah captured two Israeli soldiers and killed eight others. Israel rejected Hezbollah's demand for a prisoner exchange, and launched a full-on attack targeting Lebanon's vital infrastructure, including a power station, the main airport and scores of roads and bridges. An estimated 1,000 Lebanese have been killed and more than one million displaced. At least forty Israeli civilians have been killed and hundreds of thousands displaced under a daily barrage of Hezbollah rockets.

The Bush administration has openly backed Israel's campaign. The administration resisted international efforts for a ceasefire and rushed arms to the Israeli military.

A major new article says U.S. support for the invasion of Lebanon has gone even further than we already know. That in fact, White House support for the massive bombing of Lebanon even predates the day those two Israeli soldiers were seized.

In this week's issue of the New Yorker, investigative journalist Seymour Hersh reports Israeli officials visited the White House earlier this summer to get a "green light" for an attack on Lebanon. The Bush administration approved, Hersh says, in part to remove Hezbollah as a deterrent to a potential US bombing of Iran. A government consultant said the Bush administration also saw the attack on Lebanon as a "demo" for what it could expect to face in Iran.

WATCHING LEBANON
Washington’s interests in Israel’s war.
by SEYMOUR M. HERSH
Issue of 2006-08-21
Posted 2006-08-14

In the days after Hezbollah crossed from Lebanon into Israel, on July 12th, to kidnap two soldiers, triggering an Israeli air attack on Lebanon and a full-scale war, the Bush Administration seemed strangely passive. “It’s a moment of clarification,” President George W. Bush said at the G-8 summit, in St. Petersburg, on July 16th. “It’s now become clear why we don’t have peace in the Middle East.” He described the relationship between Hezbollah and its supporters in Iran and Syria as one of the “root causes of instability,” and subsequently said that it was up to those countries to end the crisis. Two days later, despite calls from several governments for the United States to take the lead in negotiations to end the fighting, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said that a ceasefire should be put off until “the conditions are conducive.”

The Bush Administration, however, was closely involved in the planning of Israel’s retaliatory attacks. President Bush and Vice-President Dick Cheney were convinced, current and former intelligence and diplomatic officials told me, that a successful Israeli Air Force bombing campaign against Hezbollah’s heavily fortified underground-missile and command-and-control complexes in Lebanon could ease Israel’s security concerns and also serve as a prelude to a potential American preëmptive attack to destroy Iran’s nuclear installations, some of which are also buried deep underground.

(http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/060821fa_fact)

Interview with Amy Goodman earlier today:

AMY GOODMAN: Seymour Hersh is a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist. He joins us in Washington, D.C. His latest piece is called “Watching Lebanon: Washington's Interests in Israel's War.” We welcome you to Democracy Now!, Seymour Hersh.

SEYMOUR HERSH: Hi.

AMY GOODMAN: Hi. Can you just start off by telling us what you know at this point of what Washington's interests in Israel's war are?

SEYMOUR HERSH: Well, when you say Washington, you have to talk about Dick Cheney. I can tell you pretty firmly that it's his office. I guess you could say it's sort of the home of the neoconservative thinking in Washington -- some of his aides and the people close to him in the White House: Elliott Abrams, David Wurmser, others.

What I understand is this: our military, our Air Force has been trying for a year to get plans for a major massive bombing assault on Iran pushed through the Pentagon, pushed through the process. And there's been sort of an internecine fight inside the Pentagon over just basically the idea of strategic war against Iran. They're very dug in Iran. The Persians have been digging in for -- what? -- centuries and centuries. And the Marines and the Navy and the Army have said, No way we're going to start bombing, because it will end up with troops on the ground. So there's been a stalemate. I've written a lot about it.

And in this spring, as part of the stalemate, the American Air Force approached the Israeli Air Force, which as you know is headed by General Dan Halutz, who is an Air Force -- I think the first IDF commander, the commander of the Israeli Defense Forces, to be an Air Force guy, and another believer of strategic war, and the two had a lot of interests. And so, out of these meetings in the spring became an agreement, you know, sort of we'll help you, you help us, and it got to Cheney's attention, this idea of Israel planning a major, major strategic bombing campaign against Hezbollah. And for -- I can't tell you where Bush is, but you have to assume he’s right with him. Obviously everything he's done makes that clear.

Cheney's idea was this, that we sort of -- it's like a three-for. We get three for one with this. One, here we're having this war about the value of strategic bombing, and the Israeli Air Force, whose pilots are superb, can go in and -- if they could go in and blast Hezbollah out of their foxholes or whatever they are, their underground facilities, and roll over them, as everybody in the White House and I'm sure everybody in the Israeli Air Force thought they could do, that would be a big plus for the ambitions that I think the President and Cheney have for Iran. I don't think this president, our president, is going to leave office with Iran being, as he sees it, a nuclear threat.

The second great argument you have, of course, is if you are going to do Iran, you're going to need -- you can't attack Iran without taking care of the Hezbollah missiles or rockets. They're really rockets. They're not independently guided. Even their long-range rockets that go a few hundred kilometers, you cannot attack Iran without taking them out, because obviously that's the deterrent. You hit Iran, Hezbollah then bombs Tel Aviv and Haifa. So that's something you have to clean out first.

And thirdly, of course, is if you get rid of Hezbollah and Nasrallah, why, you get rid of a terror -- a man who’s considered to be, as somebody famously said, Richard Armitage, the “A-Team of terrorism.”

So on that basis, there was a tremendous interest in Israel going ahead. There were meetings. There were an enormous amount of contacts. I should add, Amy, that of course -- and this is reflected in the story -- Israel doesn't need the United States to know they have a problem with Hezbollah. And so, they were going to do something anyway. But it's a question of timing, and that's one of the big issues.

This summer, earlier this summer, there was -- and late, I guess after the Israelis began their reoccupation -- occupation of Gaza, after the first Israeli soldier was captured, a soldier named Shalit, I think, June 28th, after he was captured, the traffic, the signals traffic that the Israeli signals community gets showed an enormous amount of talk about doing something on the northern border. That is, on the border between Syria -- I mean between Lebanon and Israel.

And so, on that basis, it was clear this summer, the next time Hezbollah made a move, and there's been a cat-and-mouse game between Israel and Hezbollah for about six years, since the Israelis were kicked out or driven out by Nasrallah in 2000. It’s been cat-and-mouse. Both sides have been going against each other, nickel-dime stuff. And the next time Hezbollah made a move, the Israeli Air Force was going to bomb, the plan was going to go in effect. The move came very quick. It came about ten days after or twelve days after the first Israeli soldier was captured.

(continued @ http://www.democracynow.org/article..../08/14/1358255)
 
Originally posted by Shayah
Lol. You use consortiumnews.com as a source? Another bash-Bush-bash-Israel Internet outlet. Are you THAT desperate?
Do you have any contradictary evidence to show that the assertions made in the article are false? Or do you think bashing the source is a valid rebuttal?
 
Originally posted by teacher:
If Billo? Not what you said before.

So we wait for NYC to go poof? Couple million gone because of liberal angst over trying to square some savages away?
Have no faith in TSA?

What did I say before?
 
Billo I personally do know Muslims?

I grew up in a small town in Michigan. The owner of the gas station was a young man from Lebanon. My mother became very close to him and taught him English. She used to go to the store and sit in the back room to teach him. She died last year and he about fell apart. He called her mom.

My childrens pediatrician was Muslim and he happened to live across the street from my husband and I. He took care of my children from birth until they turned eighteen. I trusted him with my childrens lives.

My grandfather was a surgeon and the husband and wife who purchased his practice were Muslims, both doctors. She an Internist, he a urologist. They became like family to us.
She took care of both mom and dad and dad went to him for his cancer. He still to this day goes to both of them.
They loved our family and in their clinic lobby are pictures of my grandfather and our entire family. It’s a shrine. They won’t take them down. They say they want our spirits there.
She took care of mom and would come over to the house instead of making her go to the office. She did fall apart when mom died. The morning mother passed I went immediately to the office where she was working to tell her. She about fell to her knees sobbing. She closed the office immediately and went to the funeral home to see her. She wanted time alone with her to say goodbye and to make sure they did everything right.

I do know Muslims and they have been a big part of my life.

Before 9-11 I had no clue to what Islam was, what they believed. So I did everything I could to learn about them. I read the Koran, the Hadiths, I read books about terrorism, history books, I took a class at a local church taught by a Muslim man from a university nearby.
I even talked to the Muslims in my life about what happened.
They did not like talking about it, but who did at that point. They of course denounced what the terrorists had done and were visably upset. The guy who owned the gas station said the reason he came over here to begin with (he came over 3 years before 9-11) was because he hated the life in Lebanon. His family were split, some moderates some radicals. And basically he wanted out. He told me he knew something was about to blow and it did, he was right.

There was another Muslim doctor I wasn’t as close to that lived down the street from us. They were a lovely family as well. He unfortunately was killed in a car accident and that day I looked out back and there must have been 50 men in their backyard on the ground facing east praying.

So the answer is yes I have known Muslims. They all were brilliant, kind, loving, caring. Need I say more. As I have said before, IMO there are two faces of Islam one in the Middle East and one in countries like America. The people live two totally different lifestyles and I believe for the most part they practice their faith differently.

I had many interesting conversations with my friend who owned the gas station. He taught me a lot about where he lived and the way of life before coming to America.
Islam is not just a religion, it’s a way of life. In Muslim societies Islam is everything….cultural, economic, political and religious. Its everything. When Islam takes over something it controls everything. There is no secular lifestyle. Allah is involved with everything.( I can just see the liberals in this country trying to cope with that...no separation of church and state)……..He says that is one of the things that Muslims hate about America. They think we have a sin problem and they don’t want our filth rubbing off on them. (I don’t blame them) They think we have become sinful because of Christianity and its really the opposite.

When Christians encounter Muslims who argue for the supremacy of Islam by slamming Christianity-equating it with Western degeneracy- its important to point out that the West has succumbed to so many vices not because the West is “Christian” but because the West has largely ignored Christianity. It is secular today, not Christian. They don’t want secular. He says that is a big reason most Muslims don’t want us there.

He also said something interesting. He said most Muslims cant even read the Koran that Arabic is a foreign language to the majority of the worlds Muslims. I cant remember the exact number but he said that more than 80% of the worlds Muslims cant read or write Arabic so they cant even read the Koran for themselves. So their knowledge of the Koran is limited. There is a high rate of illiteracy. Just one big way they are behind the world. And he says the government wants it that way. They don’t want education for the masses.

I will be the first to say it is wrong and foolish to say that all Muslims are militant and hostile towards us. Especially those that live in the United States. But that doesn’t mean we should hide our head in the sand and do nothing about a future possible takeover. All one needs to do is to watch what is happening in Europe.
 
Billo said, "You don't have to worry about that. Thanks to Bush, the United States doesn't exist any more."

Thanks to Bush there have been no more attacks on the United States.
 
Why isn't this thread in the Conspiracy Theories Forum?
 
Originally posted by doughgirl:
Billo I personally do know Muslims?
This is exactly my point. I work in the engineering field and have had many ME people as co-workers. Every single one of them were the kindest, most caring people you would ever want to meet. I can't say that about my countryman. And for anyone who thinks the majority of Americans are altruistic, just see what happens when you try to make a lane change in traffic AFTER you turn on your signal.

I know the muslim population has their share of whacko's. But so do we. So does every civilization. They are the criminal element in every society. And every single one of them should be brought to justice. Even though I say we played a role in enabling their hatred of us, "that" [flying planes into buildings], is not how you solve problems. It was just as illegal as our invasion of Iraq. And I condemn both.

But I don't think we should lay down and take it in the a.s.s for anybody. If someone does attack us, it's on! But if the person's responsible are in the jurisdiction of a sovereign nation, then taking military action at that point completely destroys everything this nation is founded on. And nothing is worth giving up the very reason we exist. Also realize that doesn't mean we sit around and do nothing at all. We can put a lot of pressure on country's other than using military options. And in doing so, we have the support of the rest of the world.

Although you do not agree with me, at least you understand what I am saying.
 
Billo_Really said:
I guess Iraq didn't teach ole George any lessons after all. This is why muslim's are so mad at us. For interferring in their affairs to the point of killing their citizens. If we would just stop this bullshit of sticking our nose where it doesn't belong, then a lot of this hatred would not be as intense. At least not to the point of flying planes into our buildings.

One thing is for sure, we are contributing to their hatred with our foreign policy aggressions.

Put the pipe down and back away. The only conspiracy here is the one between Syria, Iran, and Hezbollah. The Iranians ordered Hezbollah to attack Israel in order to divert world attention from the pressure they were getting from the UN as to their uranium enrichment program. The attack happened within less than two weeks of the UN's call to cease enrichment by the 31st of August or face sanctions. Gee what a coincidence. Furthermore; these so called "citizens" were leading members of the murderous Hezbollah organization which has been launching rocket attacks against Israel even after the 2000 pullout of Lebanon and these rocket attacks did not just start recently they have been going on for years and years. You've been called on your bullshit to many times Billo so please stop with the terrorist propaganda it's really starting to piss me off!!!
 
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Billo_Really said:
No. Respect the right of sovereign nations. Then, if they do use a nuke, we barbacue their country!

Oh great idea wait for them to nuke us before we respond. I'm sure the millions of Americans who will die in the nuclear holocaust will share your passion for pacisifism.

In part, as a result of our troops in Saudi Arabia.

That's directly from the bin-Laden fatwa. Please stop with the terrorist propaganda. First of all we were invited by the legitimate government of Saudi Arabia bin-Laden has no say in the matter, secondly that is not the reason bin-Laden attacked us that is just what he says to get support in the Arab world what he really wants is to get the United States out of the mid-East so as to leave a power vacuum which he intends to fill and from there set out upon destroying every secular regime and replacing it with a Wahhabist based theocracy. It's called pan-Islamisism you may have heard of it I've only told you about it about a thousand times.

After Fallujah, Ischagi and Haditha, why would you even ask that question?

A) We evacted the towns of civilians before the attack.

B) Fallujah is now the most stable and secure city in Iraq.

That is wrong no matter who does it. The only difference between the terrorists targeting civilians and our soldiers targeting civilians is that we don't make excuses for the terrorists.

We don't target civilians in fact we do everything possible not to cause civilian casualties which I for one think is a mistake let's see how many Iraqis support the insurgency after we carpet bomb the entire Sunni triangle with our B-52s and let'um see what real terror looks like.

We destroyed 75% of a city the size of Long Beach, California. A city of 300,000 people. Most of them now live in tents. Fallujah is a ghost town. However, it wasn't our intent to invade Iraq just so we could wipe out Fallujah. Were there to facillitate globalization and dominate the natural resources of that part of the world.

More terrorist propaganda we evacuated the city before we attacked it and Fallujah is now stable and secure where as before it was a city dominated by Islamic-fascists who were decapitating people in torture rooms. And if we're there to dominate their resources why is it that we installed a Democratic government that recently voted to keep the Iraqi oil nationalized rather than simply installing a pro-western puppet dictator?
 
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Originally posted by TOT:
Put the pipe down and back away. The only conspiracy here is the one between Syria, Iran, and Hezbollah. The Iranians ordered Hezbollah to attack Israel in order to divert world attention from the pressure they were getting from the UN as to their uranium enrichment program. The attack happened within less than two weeks of the UN's call to cease enrichment by the 31st of August or face sanctions. Gee what a coincidence. Furthermore; these so called "citizens" were leading members of the murderous Hezbollah organization which has been launching rocket attacks against Israel even after the 2000 pullout of Lebanon and these rocket attacks did not just start recently they have been going on for years and years. You've been called on your bullshit to many times Billo so please stop with the terrorist propaganda it's really starting to piss me off!!!
It's also a coincidence that assassination by the Israeli terrorist group Mossad happened just days after the summit.

Hey, I posted my proof. Post yours!
 
Originally posted by TOT:
Oh great idea wait for them to nuke us before we respond. I'm sure the millions of Americans who will die in the nuclear holocaust will share your passion for pacisifism.
And what's your alternative? Hold people responsible for something they haven't done!
 
Billo_Really said:
It's also a coincidence that assassination by the Israeli terrorist group Mossad happened just days after the summit.

Hey, I posted my proof. Post yours!

A) The Mossad is not a terrorist group it is a legitimate wing of Israeli intelligence.

B) Israel has been going after Hezbollah leaders for years because Hezbollah continues to fire rockets into Israel ever since the 2000 pull out of Southern Lebanon.
 

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