Bush Authorized NSA To Spy Inside US

[tryreading]

Re: Bush Authorized NSA To Spy Inside US On Citizens

If he tells us, the terrorists win. :shock:

Very good. I didn't think of that. This shows how far ahead of us the President is. (If he told us, would he have to kill us?).

 

[steen]

Wasn't it Nixon who used these agencies to spy on Americans solely because they disagreed with him? And wasn't that also illegal?

 

[Stinger]

Re: Bush Authorized NSA To Spy Inside US On Citizens

What was prevented? The President said 'possible' terrorist acts were prevented:

The president contended the program has helped "detect and prevent possible terrorist attacks in the U.S. and abroad," but did not provide specific examples.

I believe Padilla has been mention as one who came of interest because of the informationt the program developed. But as far as the President discussing the details of these programs in public maybe if everyone in the country promises not to tell the terrorist he will tell us. The fact is the congressional leaders are briefed every 45 days as to what we are doing and the results. We elect them to make sure we are doing the right thing.

 

[Stinger]

Re: Bush Authorized NSA To Spy Inside US On Citizens

If he tells us, the terrorists win. :shock:

Well as I responded to the poster. Maybe if we all promise not to tell the terrorist then we all can be briefed on these highly classified programs. I will promise how about you?

 

[hipsterdufus]

I don't know. I see Bush picking up in the approval area. The elections in Iraq are a pretty big thing. Plus I think his owning up to the faulty Intel. thing has also helped him in many circles. I certainly respect that much more then continuing the lies of "there were weapons, we found weapons etc..."

Bush even answered a few questions the other day :roll:
I'm shocked .... shocked....

Maybe he will have a press conference in 06. He might even hold a speech in front of a group of citizens, rather than pre-screened supporters or the military.

That should give him another 2 or 3 points in the polls....

 

[hipsterdufus]

Re: Bush Authorized NSA To Spy Inside US On Citizens

Well as I responded to the poster. Maybe if we all promise not to tell the terrorist then we all can be briefed on these highly classified programs. I will promise how about you?

Stinger, how do I know that you're clean man? :mrgreen:

 

[scottyz]

Re: Bush Authorized NSA To Spy Inside US On Citizens

Stinger, how do I know that you're clean man? :mrgreen:

If he's not a quaker?

 

[tryreading]

Re: Bush Authorized NSA To Spy Inside US On Citizens

I believe Padilla has been mention as one who came of interest because of the informationt the program developed. But as far as the President discussing the details of these programs in public maybe if everyone in the country promises not to tell the terrorist he will tell us. The fact is the congressional leaders are briefed every 45 days as to what we are doing and the results. We elect them to make sure we are doing the right thing.

Any proof about the Padilla thing? Because the President offered no proof of any cases.

We elect them, and then usually half of what they do is the wrong thing. We can not trust them. So lets make sure they do the proper thing and go through the courts for approval to eavesdrop on Americans, so we have some protection from those in government who would protect us.

 

[Stinger]

Re: Bush Authorized NSA To Spy Inside US On Citizens

Any proof about the Padilla thing? Because the President offered no proof of any cases.

Not at hand and not to concerned to go look for it.

We elect them, and then usually half of what they do is the wrong thing. We can not trust them. So lets make sure they do the proper thing and go through the courts for approval to eavesdrop on Americans, so we have some protection from those in government who would protect us.

And all the terrorist have to do is come into the country, buy up a lot of cell phones an phone cards that have USA are codes. Take them back to Iraq, hand them out to their buddies and tell them to use them because now the United States, thanks to the hysteria this has created, will not trace them because the agents now fear they will go to jail if they do.

That's all this is about. NSA monitors someone IN A FORIEGN COUNTRY calling into a US number or using a US number and the MAY take interest and tap it. And if it has nothing to do with terrorism they stop. If we tie thier hands on this the terrorist have just won and have gained an advantage.

 

[tryreading]

Re: Bush Authorized NSA To Spy Inside US On Citizens

Not at hand and not to concerned to go look for it.



And all the terrorist have to do is come into the country, buy up a lot of cell phones an phone cards that have USA are codes. Take them back to Iraq, hand them out to their buddies and tell them to use them because now the United States, thanks to the hysteria this has created, will not trace them because the agents now fear they will go to jail if they do.

That's all this is about. NSA monitors someone IN A FORIEGN COUNTRY calling into a US number or using a US number and the MAY take interest and tap it. And if it has nothing to do with terrorism they stop. If we tie thier hands on this the terrorist have just won and have gained an advantage.

If you won't post proof of your statements, you should only talk about what you're sure of.

The phone tapping can still be done, but properly, with a court order. This provides a check/balance situation. Let's don't trust politicians to listen in because they think they have the power to, without regulation. It can still be done, but again, through proper channels.

 

[ANAV]

I just watched a short debate about this topic on MSNBC.

I gotta tell ya, I'm completely disgusted by the underhanded attack on our liberties and freedoms by this imposter in the White House. What next?

Does anyone care that this man is shredding our constitution?

God help us until January 20th, 2009.

So you think it's just GW and all this will end with a new President? This has been going on for years before GW was in office. Bush is only following in Clinton's footsteps.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/12/18/221452.shtml

I'm not saying it makes it right or wrong, but GW did not set the standard.

 

[aps]

So you think it's just GW and all this will end with a new President? This has been going on for years before GW was in office. Bush is only following in Clinton's footsteps.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/12/18/221452.shtml

I'm not saying it makes it right or wrong, but GW did not set the standard.

Oh, so if I rob a bank, then it's okay if you rob a bank? The problem here is that this adminstration has already shown it sees itself as being above the law, i.e., that it didn't have to follow the Geneva Conventions. Apparently, the same Justice lawyer who wrote the memo on legalizing torture (John Yoo) is the same one who said the president could ignore the law when it came to eavesdropping.

Please, Congress, show us that you will use the oversight that you have. No branch of government should have this much authority.

 

[MSgt]

Meh. What a bunch of drama. Whoopity doo.

Our government has always spied on it's citizens when the need arose. The only difference today is that the media is selling papers based solely on tragedy and controversy. It's a good thing today's media wasn't alive and well during Pearl Harbor. We could have all sat around and watched reporters and politicians tell us how our government screwed up instead of focusing on the problem. By the end of it, a lot of our citizens would have sided with the Japanese.

The FBI did it for the Japanese threat during WWII.
The FBI did it during the Communist threat during the earlier part of the Cold War.

How dare the FBI do it during the terrorist threat during the "War on Terror."


Of course, this isn't about the FBI. This is about bashing Bush. Same old garbage. The salivating continues. Just think....I was sick of it during the Clinton period. Little did I know of how media enslaved our country was then.

 

[hipsterdufus]

Re: Bush Authorized NSA To Spy Inside US On Citizens

From what I've read and from the experts I listened to tonight there is nothing unusal at all here. The NSA has always intercepted such calls and has a perfect legal authority to screen them. The congressional leaders knew of it now and in the previous adminsitrations.

Sounds to me like the NYT once again stretching to find anything to counter the good news out of Iraq.

What "experts" did you listen to?

Of course the President has the right to ask for wiretaps, but, as outlined in the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA), he needs to have judicial approval. He can, in emergency circumstances, ask for judicial approval after the fact. Bush did neither.

Alberto Gonzales stated in an interview with Katie Couric on the Today show that Bush was granted this power under the USE OF FORCE RESOLUTION - S. J. RES. 23

Below is a link to the "Use of Force Resolution, and I see no clause that legally allows Bush to bypass FISA.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/military/terroristattack/joint-resolution_9-14.html

My man Russ Feingold is on the case:

Sen. Russell Feingold (D-Wis) responded to Gonzales' comments in an NBC interview this morning. "This is just an outrageous power grab," he said. "Nobody, nobody, thought when we passed a resolution to invade Afghanistan and to fight the war on terror, including myself who voted for it, thought that this was an authorization to allow a wiretapping against the law of the United States.

"There's two ways you can do this kind of wiretapping under our law. One is through the criminal code, Title III; the other is through the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. That's it. That's the only way you can do it. You can't make up a law and deriving it from the Afghanistan resolution.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/19/AR2005121900211_2.html

 

[scottyz]

So you think it's just GW and all this will end with a new President? This has been going on for years before GW was in office. Bush is only following in Clinton's footsteps.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/12/18/221452.shtml

I'm not saying it makes it right or wrong, but GW did not set the standard.

:lol: :lol: I wondered when Clinton would be dragged into this. I'm sorry to tell you that Echelon predates Clinton. Clinton just followed in Bush Sr. and Reagans footsteps. :roll:

 

[Deegan]

Some of you just won't be satisfied until we are attacked again, will you?

Of course then you can claim the president has not protected all of, and how he has failed miserably. I support the decision to monitor these phone calls, no one has the right to converse with the enemy, and it's about time we stopped all this silliness. The president has certain war powers, some may not like this, but that is the reality, and he is obviously exercising those powers. He has said that the congress was briefed on this 12 times, so there is oversight, and the rules are being followed.

 

[MSgt]

Some of you just won't be satisfied until we are attacked again, will you?

Of course then you can claim the president has not protected all of, and how he has failed miserably. I support the decision to monitor these phone calls, no one has the right to converse with the enemy, and it's about time we stopped all this silliness. The president has certain war powers, some may not like this, but that is the reality, and he is obviously exercising those powers. He has said that the congress was briefed on this 12 times, so there is oversight, and the rules are being followed.

Meh. To the Democrats, their despicable behavior is just a means to an end. To the American people, they are just continuing to be slaves to their political masters.

Republican or Democrat...Bush is doing the right thing. Something two Republican and one Democrat President neglected before him.

 

[scottyz]

Some of you just won't be satisfied until we are attacked again, will you?

Of course then you can claim the president has not protected all of, and how he has failed miserably. I support the decision to monitor these phone calls, no one has the right to converse with the enemy, and it's about time we stopped all this silliness. The president has certain war powers, some may not like this, but that is the reality, and he is obviously exercising those powers. He has said that the congress was briefed on this 12 times, so there is oversight, and the rules are being followed.

That explains why there are Repubs and Dems in congress claiming they weren't briefed on this exact activity? Why people on both sides of the isle are pissed over this? I don't think anyone has a problem with Bush monitoring actual terrorists suspects, but he was monitoring Quakers and other folk who he likely couldn't get a warrant for because his case against them was so weak. The standards for getting a warrant from a judge to spy on someone is pretty damn low.

 

[Deegan]

That explains why there are Repubs and Dems in congress claiming they weren't briefed on this exact activity? Why people on both sides of the isle are pissed over this? I don't think anyone has a problem with Bush monitoring actual terrorists suspects, but he was monitoring Quakers and other folk who he likely couldn't get a warrant for because his case against them was so weak. The standards for getting a warrant from a judge to spy on someone is pretty damn low.

The president said this morning, members of congress were told about this action, and they meet twelve times. I suppose it was in secret, as we know how easily things are leaked these days, disgusting really.

These are broad monitoring areas, you can't get a court order for that wide a net, we all know this. The president is trying to protect Americans, not listen to your average phone call. I support this endeavor, and think it is critical to stopping future attacks. This will all be cleared up soon, but the president is covered by the war powers act, and you kids will just have to bite the bullet on this one.

 

[scottyz]

The president said this morning, members of congress were told about this action, and they meet twelve times. I suppose it was in secret, as we know how easily things are leaked these days, disgusting really.

They gave him permission to spy on terrorist suspects with a court warrant which requires little effort to get. They didn't authorize him to spy on whomever he felt like without a warrant.

These are broad monitoring areas, you can't get a court order for that wide a net, we all know this. The president is trying to protect Americans, not listen to your average phone call. I support this endeavor, and think it is critical to stopping future attacks. This will all be cleared up soon, but the president is covered by the war powers act, and you kids will just have to bite the bullet on this one.

Congress might not want to bite the bullet on this one. To do things like this without the participation of congress or the courts is likely to have pissed them off.

 

[YNKYH8R]

I agree let’s see what comes out of the wash. Let the investigations come through and we’ll pass judgment then. (yeah right) You never know this could lead to impeachment.

 

[libertarian_knight]

Some of you just won't be satisfied until we are attacked again, will you?

Of course then you can claim the president has not protected all of, and how he has failed miserably. I support the decision to monitor these phone calls, no one has the right to converse with the enemy, and it's about time we stopped all this silliness. The president has certain war powers, some may not like this, but that is the reality, and he is obviously exercising those powers. He has said that the congress was briefed on this 12 times, so there is oversight, and the rules are being followed.

CERTAIN war powers, too bad breaking the law isn't one of them huh?

What do you care if we are attacked again, it could help usher in the police state you are so fond of anyway. Sure, you might feel bad people would die, and prefer the police state without having to kill people, but then again, police states seem to have a fondness ofr killing people anyway.

This kind of behavior has choked civilizations and destroyed Empires, all from inside. Supremacy for the State, is a pretty low existance for the Human.

 

[Deegan]

CERTAIN war powers, too bad breaking the law isn't one of them huh?

What do you care if we are attacked again, it could help usher in the police state you are so fond of anyway. Sure, you might feel bad people would die, and prefer the police state without having to kill people, but then again, police states seem to have a fondness ofr killing people anyway.

This kind of behavior has choke civilizations and destroyed Empires, all from inside.

You folks^^^ are really out there!:shock:

As I said, this will all be cleared up soon enough, and I am sure the president has dotted all his I's and crossed all his T's, and this will all be a memory soon. Unfortunately though, now all the terrorists are aware that we were listening, now they will have to find a new way to communicate, thanks leaker's.:roll:

 

[BWG]

Unfortunately though, now all the terrorists are aware that we were listening, now they will have to find a new way to communicate, thanks leaker's.:roll:

I see your hat is tuned.

Do you really think that the terrorists are so stupid that they don't think the
U. S. has the technology to listen in on wireless (or any other) communications? :doh

 

[Deegan]

I see your hat is tuned.

Do you really think that the terrorists are so stupid that they don't think the
U. S. has the technology to listen in on wireless (or any other) communications? :doh

I believe that they assume they can call operatives inside the states, and not be heard, and vice versa, yes. But not any longer, thanks again leakers, you're real patriots.:roll: