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Bush Accused of Plotting to Bomb al-Jazeera

Binary_Digit

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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/22/AR2005112201784.html

(some paragraphs omitted from below for brevity)

LONDON, Nov. 22 -- President Bush expressed interest in bombing the headquarters of the Arabic television network al-Jazeera during a White House conversation with Prime Minister Tony Blair in April 2004, a British newspaper reported Tuesday.

The Daily Mirror report was attributed to two anonymous sources describing a classified document they said contained a transcript of the two leaders' talk. One source is quoted as saying Bush's alleged remark concerning the network's headquarters in Qatar was "humorous, not serious," while the other said, "Bush was deadly serious."

"We are not interested in dignifying something so outlandish and inconceivable with a response," White House spokesman Scott McClellan told the Associated Press in an e-mail.

A former senior U.S. intelligence official said that it was clear the White House saw al-Jazeera as a problem, but that although the CIA's clandestine service came up with plans to counteract it, such as planting people on its staff, it never received permission to proceed. "Bombing in Qatar was never contemplated," the former official said.

A spokesman for Blair's office declined to comment on grounds that the document is part of a criminal investigation. Two civil servants have been charged with violating Britain's Official Secrets Act for allegedly disclosing the document.


If this allegation is not true, then why was the document classified? Why did it even exist?
 
H

hipsterdufus

Binary_Digit said:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/22/AR2005112201784.html

(some paragraphs omitted from below for brevity)

LONDON, Nov. 22 -- President Bush expressed interest in bombing the headquarters of the Arabic television network al-Jazeera during a White House conversation with Prime Minister Tony Blair in April 2004, a British newspaper reported Tuesday.

The Daily Mirror report was attributed to two anonymous sources describing a classified document they said contained a transcript of the two leaders' talk. One source is quoted as saying Bush's alleged remark concerning the network's headquarters in Qatar was "humorous, not serious," while the other said, "Bush was deadly serious."

"We are not interested in dignifying something so outlandish and inconceivable with a response," White House spokesman Scott McClellan told the Associated Press in an e-mail.

A former senior U.S. intelligence official said that it was clear the White House saw al-Jazeera as a problem, but that although the CIA's clandestine service came up with plans to counteract it, such as planting people on its staff, it never received permission to proceed. "Bombing in Qatar was never contemplated," the former official said.

A spokesman for Blair's office declined to comment on grounds that the document is part of a criminal investigation. Two civil servants have been charged with violating Britain's Official Secrets Act for allegedly disclosing the document.


If this allegation is not true, then why was the document classified? Why did it even exist?
Scott McClellan aka Puffy McMoonface has no credibility with the public anymore. If Bush was joking, then release the transcript.
 

FinnMacCool

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If this turns out to be true, it could be bad not only for Bush but for us, as citizens of the United States as well.
 

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Bush has proven to be one to bomb anyone (verbally, physically, semantically, and imperatively) who does not agree with his particular political doctrine.

There is no room for patriotism or the american way with Bush. Either you agree with him or you are the subject of his minions.

That is the M.O. of a dictator and anyone who "claims" to be oblivious to this fact is simply lying to their self.
 
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Archon said:
Bush has proven to be one to bomb anyone (verbally, physically, semantically, and imperatively) who does not agree with his particular political doctrine.

There is no room for patriotism or the american way with Bush. Either you agree with him or you are the subject of his minions.

That is the M.O. of a dictator and anyone who "claims" to be oblivious to this fact is simply lying to their self.
:rofl

Michael Moore couldn't have said it better.
 

MSgt

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What a joke!

So what if it is true? You people are pathetic. If left to defend yourselves, you people would be either dead or begging for mercy. I would put a paycheck on it being true. Al-Jazeer broadcasting stations were shut down inside Iraq. Shutting down the propaganda machine of your enemy is a part of conflict.

Recognizing the enemy is the first necessity to warfare. It is painfully obvious that many do not possess this ability.

The problems of the Middle East and the plans to address them have existed long before Bush entered the White House. How sad for some that they insist on parading around their naive ignorance.
 
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Kandahar

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I don't know if this is true or not, but it's certainly not outside the realm of possibility (and I avoid conspiracy theories like the plague). The Al-Jazeera headquarters in Kabul and Baghdad were both "accidentally" bombed, as was a Serbian television station during the Kosovo war.

If Bush was just running his mouth (which is definitely a possibility) or the sources are mistaken (also a possibility), then why the coverup? The White House refuses to release the transcript, and the British government threatened to jail reporters who write about it.

Now I'm not saying this is true. But I'm not as immediately dismissive of this, as I normally am of such bizarre accusations.
 

FinnMacCool

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So what if it is true? You people are pathetic. If left to defend yourselves, you people would be either dead or begging for mercy.
Yes I've heard. As you so reminded us about a million times. . .What would we do without our brave and noble leader not to mention col. Jessup here keeping the barbarians behind the walls.
I would put a paycheck on it being true. Al-Jazeer broadcasting stations were shut down inside Iraq. Shutting down the propaganda machine of your enemy is a part of conflict.
Of course its part of the conflict. So is setting up your own propaganda machine. Doesn't make it right though

Recognizing the enemy is the first necessity to warfare. It is painfully obvious that many do not possess this ability.
Yeah thats why it has to be chosen for them is it not? Those stupid people who cannot make decesions on their own! Just the same as those Ukranian revolutionaries during the Orange Revolution who we condemned as enemies while we supported the Ukranian Mafia, who were business partners. Yeah our government and people like you always make excellent choices on who our enemy should be.
The problems of the Middle East and the plans to address them have existed long before Bush entered the White House. How sad for some that they insist on parading around their naive ignorance.
Yes addresss them. But address by killing innocent civillians? You know what the first step is for a totalitarian regime? To take down their enemies media and set up their own. But as you so reminded us a million times, nothing is too good, no price too high, nor any attrocity too terrible for our interests.
 

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This was obviously a sick joke. I think this only shows that Bush has a morbid sense of humor. It becomes even more funny because...braindead leftists would believe it!!!

:rofl

I served in the Army for 8 years and said sicker things than that while in a morbidly humorous mood.

Give me a break.
 

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Kandahar said:
I don't know if this is true or not, but it's certainly not outside the realm of possibility (and I avoid conspiracy theories like the plague). The Al-Jazeera headquarters in Kabul and Baghdad were both "accidentally" bombed, as was a Serbian television station during the Kosovo war.

If Bush was just running his mouth (which is definitely a possibility) or the sources are mistaken (also a possibility), then why the coverup? The White House refuses to release the transcript, and the British government threatened to jail reporters who write about it.

Now I'm not saying this is true. But I'm not as immediately dismissive of this, as I normally am of such bizarre accusations.
It makes perfect sense to not release the transcript. Surely they discussed many sensitive details in that conversation. To release the transcript would possibly disclosed some information the terrorists could use to kill American soldiers.

Personally, I vote that it remain undisclosed. Disclosing the coversation could aid our enemies.
 

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GySgt said:
What a joke!

So what if it is true? You people are pathetic. If left to defend yourselves, you people would be either dead or begging for mercy. I would put a paycheck on it being true. Al-Jazeer broadcasting stations were shut down inside Iraq. Shutting down the propaganda machine of your enemy is a part of conflict.

Recognizing the enemy is the first necessity to warfare. It is painfully obvious that many do not possess this ability.

The problems of the Middle East and the plans to address them have existed long before Bush entered the White House. How sad for some that they insist on parading around their naive ignorance.
I think many civilians fail to understand this concept of shutting your enemy's propoganda machine down.Al-Jazeer might as well be called terrorist tv.It seems as though that when ever some terrorist came out with a tape you would alway hear how Al-Jazeera being creditied with showing the tape.

I hope Bush does blows up terrorist tv(Al-jazeera).Those ****s need to quit giving our enimeis aid.
 
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Binary_Digit said:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/22/AR2005112201784.html

(some paragraphs omitted from below for brevity)

LONDON, Nov. 22 -- President Bush expressed interest in bombing the headquarters of the Arabic television network al-Jazeera during a White House conversation with Prime Minister Tony Blair in April 2004, a British newspaper reported Tuesday.

Then this article go's on to prove the assertion with no proof what so ever. :roll:

The Daily Mirror report was attributed to two anonymous sources describing a classified document they said contained a transcript of the two leaders' talk. One source is quoted as saying Bush's alleged remark concerning the network's headquarters in Qatar was "humorous, not serious," while the other said, "Bush was deadly serious."

"We are not interested in dignifying something so outlandish and inconceivable with a response," White House spokesman Scott McClellan told the Associated Press in an e-mail.

A former senior U.S. intelligence official said that it was clear the White House saw al-Jazeera as a problem, but that although the CIA's clandestine service came up with plans to counteract it, such as planting people on its staff, it never received permission to proceed. "Bombing in Qatar was never contemplated," the former official said.

A spokesman for Blair's office declined to comment on grounds that the document is part of a criminal investigation. Two civil servants have been charged with violating Britain's Official Secrets Act for allegedly disclosing the document.

If this allegation is not true, then why was the document classified? Why did it even exist?

WOW you can prove just about anything using words like anonomous, confidential, undisclosed, civil servants, etc.

Just exactly who are these people that the author is talking about?

This story would be almost laughable if it wasn't such an overt case of misleading bullshit.
 

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jamesrage said:
I think many civilians fail to understand this concept of shutting your enemy's propoganda machine down.Al-Jazeer might as well be called terrorist tv.It seems as though that when ever some terrorist came out with a tape you would alway hear how Al-Jazeera being creditied with showing the tape.

I hope Bush does blows up terrorist tv(Al-jazeera).Those ****s need to quit giving our enimeis aid.
I love how we're supposedly spreading democracy and liberty throughout the Middle East, yet you support bombing the only relatively free media in the region, simply because you don't like their coverage of events.

Why stop at al-Jazeera? I hear George Bush isn't fond of CNN either. :roll:
 

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Kandahar said:
I love how we're supposedly spreading democracy and liberty throughout the Middle East, yet you support bombing the only relatively free media in the region, simply because you don't like their coverage of events.

Why stop at al-Jazeera? I hear George Bush isn't fond of CNN either. :roll:

Al-Jazeera is a tool of the terrorist.Like any tool of our enemies they must be shut down or destroyed.
 

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FinnMacCool said:
Of course its part of the conflict. So is setting up your own propaganda machine. Doesn't make it right though.
What propaganda machine would this be? Al-Jazeera is notorious for placing "Martyrs" on a pedestal. Al-Jazeera is noptorious for blaming Israel for every negative occurence in the Middle East. Stop being foolish. Right and wrong is a luxury you have. Fortunately, the will to do what is necessary outweighs the notion of "right and wrong" for the individuals who must do what they must. "Right and wrong" are for the sideliners and the critics. When it comes to your securities and interests, decisions are made. "Right and wrong" is selective for everyone involved.

FinnMacCool said:
Yeah thats why it has to be chosen for them is it not? Those stupid people who cannot make decesions on their own! Just the same as those Ukranian revolutionaries during the Orange Revolution who we condemned as enemies while we supported the Ukranian Mafia, who were business partners. Yeah our government and people like you always make excellent choices on who our enemy should be. .

Islamic extremism and the civilization that is raised to hate you is not an enemy of our choice. They chose us. Closing off your ears, covering your eyes, and making noises will not make them go away. They have been waging their holy war on us for decades through numerous terror gruops while we ignored them. Pretending to not be a part of a war on attrition while your enemy kills you is stupidity.

FinnMacCool said:
Yes addresss them. But address by killing innocent civillians? You know what the first step is for a totalitarian regime? To take down their enemies media and set up their own. But as you so reminded us a million times, nothing is too good, no price too high, nor any attrocity too terrible for our interests.
Civillians die. Stop your belly aching. You like to parade it around as if they are lined up and shot. You are confusing your country with the enemy. This is how we can tell the difference. Civilians are not a target for us...they are a target to them. Get it?

Civillians died in Afghanistan when we attacked the Taliban. Were those deaths acceptable to you? How about the civillians of WWII? Were those civillian deaths OK because you could understand that war. Would civillian deaths be OK if we attacked Iran or Syria or Saudi Arabia instead of Iraq? :roll:
 
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Kandahar said:
I love how we're supposedly spreading democracy and liberty throughout the Middle East, yet you support bombing the only relatively free media in the region, simply because you don't like their coverage of events.

Why stop at al-Jazeera? I hear George Bush isn't fond of CNN either. :roll:
First, we aren't "spreading" democracy. How can your opinions matter if they are based on complete ignorance? We have given Iraq a chance and from this, Syria and Iran are watching. If all works out, they will do for themselves and it will have nothing to do with our directly "spreading" democracy.

This "free media" is the problem. They do more than "report the events." They ****ing lie. One of the many problems in the region is the complete lack of the free flow of information. Al-Jazeera is very much controlled and used to spew venom against imagined enemies. Al-Jazeera would make a story on how badly Muslims were injured due to some infections they received from splinters they got from American wood. This is the only "news" media in the region for a reason. Your sense of the Middle East is sorely ****ed up. The Middle East is not America. When you watch TV and you are flipping channels and choosing what to watch....you are enjoying the complete opposite of the Muslims in the Middle East. They watch Al-Jazeera for their news or they go hear the Mullahs preach hate against us.

Instead of spewing your usual garbage, rise above it and recognize the problems.
 
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Originally posted by GySgt:
This "free media" is the problem. They do more than "report the events." They ****ing lie. One of the many problems in the region is the complete lack of the free flow of information. Al-Jazeera is very much controlled and used to spew venom against imagined enemies. Al-Jazeera would make a story on how badly Muslims were injured due to some infections they received from splinters they got from American wood. This is the only "news" media in the region for a reason. Your sense of the Middle East is sorely ****ed up. The Middle East is not America. When you watch TV and you are flipping channels and choosing what to watch....you are enjoying the complete opposite of the Muslims in the Middle East. They watch Al-Jazeera for their news or they go hear the Mullahs preach hate against us.
What about Al Hurah?
 

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Al-Jazeera asked Bush to challenge this accusation, has he?
 

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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
This story would be almost laughable if it wasn't such an overt case of misleading bullshit.

ahh but then nobody would run it.
 

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scottyz said:
Al-Jazeera asked Bush to challenge this accusation, has he?

What possible purpose could a response serve? I kinda hope he responds with a BGM-109 if at all.
 

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GySgt said:
First, we aren't "spreading" democracy. How can your opinions matter if they are based on complete ignorance? We have given Iraq a chance and from this, Syria and Iran are watching. If all works out, they will do for themselves and it will have nothing to do with our directly "spreading" democracy.
Call it what you want. We're certainly not setting a very good example of freedom, if our president actually considered bombing an independent news station in an allied nation, simply because he doesn't like its coverage.

GySgt said:
This "free media" is the problem. They do more than "report the events." They ****ing lie.
That may be. I don't know. But lying doesn't justify bombing it; it's not like lying is unheard of in Western media.

GySgt said:
One of the many problems in the region is the complete lack of the free flow of information. Al-Jazeera is very much controlled
By whom? The Qatari government lets them broadcast almost anything they want.

GySgt said:
and used to spew venom against imagined enemies. Al-Jazeera would make a story on how badly Muslims were injured due to some infections they received from splinters they got from American wood.
Translation: "I don't like the stories they run. Therefore they should die."

GySgt said:
This is the only "news" media in the region for a reason. Your sense of the Middle East is sorely ****ed up.
Your sense of freedom of the press is sorely ****ed up.

GySgt said:
The Middle East is not America. When you watch TV and you are flipping channels and choosing what to watch....you are enjoying the complete opposite of the Muslims in the Middle East. They watch Al-Jazeera for their news or they go hear the Mullahs preach hate against us.
The solution, then, is to encourage alternate media sources in the Middle East, not to bomb the crap out of the only free one that already exists.

GySgt said:
Instead of spewing your usual garbage, rise above it and recognize the problems.
I know that you think that we'd be justified in bombing al-Jazeera because they're dumb brown people. I also know that you won't admit that, but subconsciously that's EXACTLY what you're thinking. I don't see you clamoring to bomb "Western" (i.e. white) media outlets simply because you don't like their opinions.

The fact is that al-Jazeera is reporting the news and voicing its opinions, and has every right to do so. It may be biased, it may even be completely false, but that's not a reason to bomb it. If you don't like their coverage, move to Baghdad and start al-GySgt News Network.
 

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Billo_Really said:
What about Al Hurah?

What about it? When it starts promoting death to Muslims and distorting the truth, it will be in the same league as Al-Jazeera. The diseased culture of our enemy suffers from deep flaws which condemns them to failure in the modern world…

1) Restrictions on the free flow of information.
2) The subjugation of women.
3) Inability to accept responsibility for individual or collective failure.
4) The extended family or clan as the basic unit of social organization.
5) Domination by a restrictive religion.
6) A low valuation of education.
7) Low prestige assigned to work.

If Al-Jazeera wasn't their sole means to the "truth," it wouldn't be a problem.

It boggles the mind that people see FOX as this biased "neo-con" machine, yet attempt to hold out Al-Jazeera as credible. That pretty much say's it all.
 

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Kandahar said:
Call it what you want. We're certainly not setting a very good example of freedom, if our president actually considered bombing an independent news station in an allied nation, simply because he doesn't like its coverage.
All Presidents consider all kinds of things that don't happen. They consider assassinations based on military and CIA intel. They consider arms trades that might be considered shady. They consider deals with enemies that keep temporary stabilities and us out of war. They consider bombing locations.

Realize the situation. It's hard to always set the perfect example during a war. This is where people seem to lose their way. When looking at the situation, one must always remember...this is a war. He didn't consider bombing "a" independent news station. He considered bombing the "ONLY" news station which is largely controlled by Mullahs and their distorted and blasphemous version of Islam. If Al-Jazeera wasn't the only outlet to the world that the ruling elite allowed their people...then it wouldn't be a problem. There are two solutions - bomb it or create more outlets. The latter was chosen and still people are bitching. It is kind of hard to win hearts and minds in countries like Syria and Iran, when their only media outlet gives 100 percent coverage on every accidental civillian death by Americans and every targetted Muslim death by other Muslims that are blamed on Americans. They only take a break from this when they are running stories on why Israel is to blame for all of their problems.


Kandahar said:
That may be. I don't know. But lying doesn't justify bombing it; it's not like lying is unheard of in Western media.
If you feel like you are being lied to in the west, you simply change the channel to another news program. If you feel like FOX is being too "patriotic" and is not giving you all of the information...then you change to CNN. If you feel like CNN is not giving you all of the information...then you change to FOX. This is just two. We have a plethora of news media programs all across our televisions and most are considered bias to one thing or another. If you don't like TV, you may get on the Internet and find anything you want.

This does not exist in the Middle East. There are no libraries worth speaking of. There are no world class universities. There are no Internet Cafes. Keep in mind that this is one of the most richest regions on Earth. They have no choice. They watch Al-Jazeera and they are forced fed their "facts" through a screened religious point of view and an anti-American theme that encourages hate and "martyrdom."


Kandahar said:
By whom? The Qatari government lets them broadcast almost anything they want.
It's not a question of whom. It's a question of influence. Aside from anything legitimate, the Arab elite and the ruling Mullahs use it to preach and control. Imagine FOX on crack, speed, and steroids. Not imagine that it's goal is to make you hate everything non-American.


Kandahar said:
Translation: "I don't like the stories they run. Therefore they should die."
Such is war. Propaganda machines are shut down and bombed in every war.

Kandahar said:
Your sense of freedom of the press is sorely ****ed up.
Freedom of the Press? Let's strip America of all of it's news programs and channels and only provide the American people with FOX. If you have a problem with FOX being your only news outlet to the world and you think it should be changed....I'll just say your sense of freedom of the press is sorely ****ed up. In the mean time, enjoy your only news outlet. Oh yeah....add the fact that you are born and raised with this only news source and knew nothing else except what it told you and it has a foundation based in a strict religion that you share.


Kandahar said:
The solution, then, is to encourage alternate media sources in the Middle East, not to bomb the crap out of the only free one that already exists.
Was it bombed? No. Was an alternate news source provided? Yes. What's the problem? Your solution is what occurred. The President must consider all things and all scenarios. It's not his fault that people in our government and reporters find it helpful to the cohesion of the nation to reveal anything contriversial. Bombing the station would have been a bad idea and counterproductive to what we are doing throughout the region. Obviously, he knew this, because it wasn't bombed. He did the right thing by introducing an alternate means. Instead of chastizing and looking for any means to bash...consider his final decision and let it go.


Kandahar said:
I know that you think that we'd be justified in bombing al-Jazeera because they're dumb brown people. I also know that you won't admit that, but subconsciously that's EXACTLY what you're thinking. I don't see you clamoring to bomb "Western" (i.e. white) media outlets simply because you don't like their opinions.

The fact is that al-Jazeera is reporting the news and voicing its opinions, and has every right to do so. It may be biased, it may even be completely false, but that's not a reason to bomb it. If you don't like their coverage, move to Baghdad and start al-GySgt News Network.
Wow. I get abrasive so you get abrasive. Way to stoop to my level.

I've never said we'd be justified. I simply wouldn't care if we did. Regardless of how you want to see the world, I see things in tactical and beneficial means. Like it or not, it is not tactically sound to allow Al-Jazeera to be the only media source in this region and it is beneficial to us to introduce other means into this civilization. If I didn't care about the "brown" people, I wouldn't believe in Iraq for the humanitarian reasons (I believe you're the one that doesn't see them as worth it). I also wouldn't care about leaving Somalia half-assed the way we did. I also wouldn't be dissapointed in our government for not stepping into Sudan when we should have.

I'd have my head chopped off inside a week. Anything I would air would be seen as "lies" against "Allah" and infidelic.
 
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GySgt said:
1) Restrictions on the free flow of information.
2) The subjugation of women.
3) Inability to accept responsibility for individual or collective failure.
4) The extended family or clan as the basic unit of social organization.
5) Domination by a restrictive religion.
6) A low valuation of education.
7) Low prestige assigned to work.
With the exception of number 2, which even I wouldn't accuse him of, I think you've pretty much summed up the values of the Bush Administration. :rofl:

1)This administration has been reported to be one of the most secretive of any administration in American history. He almost never holds a news conference, in fact, I recall seeing him take questions from the media only once in 5 years! Talk about Restrictions on the free flow of information!

3)I've only ever heard him take responsibility for one mistake, and that was in the sorrowful aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. He seemed reluctant to even do that.

4)I don't think there's anything wrong with promoting close families, and even the president seems to think that it's beneficial.

5)While I personally find Christianity slightly more charming than Islam because of my western upbringing, both are fairly restrictive. You find your restrictions tolerable because of your upbringing, just the same as they find theirs tolerable because of their upbringing. It's a cultural difference that we have to accept.

6)I won't go there. You'd probably just accuse me of "misunderestimating" his intelligence.

7)Michael Brown (Former FEMA director-Disaster Management Experience=0)
 

Billo_Really

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Originally posted by GySgt:
What about it? When it starts promoting death to Muslims and distorting the truth, it will be in the same league as Al-Jazeera. The diseased culture of our enemy suffers from deep flaws which condemns them to failure in the modern world…

1) Restrictions on the free flow of information.
2) The subjugation of women.
3) Inability to accept responsibility for individual or collective failure.
4) The extended family or clan as the basic unit of social organization.
5) Domination by a restrictive religion.
6) A low valuation of education.
7) Low prestige assigned to work.

If Al-Jazeera wasn't their sole means to the "truth," it wouldn't be a problem.

It boggles the mind that people see FOX as this biased "neo-con" machine, yet attempt to hold out Al-Jazeera as credible. That pretty much say's it all.
It wouldn't hurt to do a little research into them. They are the FOX news of Iraq.
 
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