• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Building homes that make more power than they take

I'd rather see less of both and roofs across America with solar panels on them.

I've read articles where they estimated output if all the useable roofs were covered with panels and Cali would become a major daytime energy exporter.
 
I would vote for a home such as mentioned in the OP. A word of caution, however. Don't forget that corpgov rules the nation. If you think for a moment that power companies are going to let you benefit without kissing their ring, think again. We live in a corprotacracy. Big business always gets its cut anymore in America and if you think you'll be able to slide away from corpgov's control scott-free you are wrong. When corporations see that they might lose the upper hand they write laws and force policy changes that benefit them.

You would think that everyone in Arizona would have solar energy. We have more sun that the sun. Solar conversion costs more than it used to. You don't get the tax breaks you once did here in Arizona and now this:

Arizona Public Service Co. is proposing charging customers who install rooftop solar panels $50 to $100 or more a month to cover the cost of maintaining the power grid.

What? Yep. At the present this is a proposal. :roll: Yeah, right. And my butt ain't Irish pink. Arizona is a GOP/Tea Party state and that means big business pretty much gets whatever it wants. Will the proposed monthly increases be charged to solar power users who are connected to the grid? Bet on it.

Yeah, the electric company here in san diego refused to buy back electricity for a long time. Then the pulled a fast one when forced and paid wholesale for what you put into the grid and charged retail for what you used at night.

Last I heard they were taking/giving one for one. Not sure about any net excess you put out.

Its all pretty assinine because the days solar puts out the most are the days the so cal grid has problems keeping up with demand.
 
What a load of BS.

What, you don't think the electrical grid needs to be maintained? You don't think those union linemen need to be paid?

Who do you think is going to pay for all the green energy solar panels and wind turbines?

The part they electric companies leave out of their propaganda is the simple fact that peak solar output almost always coincides with peak demand.

Meaning solar systems HELP the grid by simply existing. So acting like they're "freeloading" is BS.
 
I guess charging people with solar panels to maintain the power grid is kind of like taxing people with elec cars to help maintain the roads they drive on. The money for the infrastructure has to come from somewhere and if you live in AZ you can pretty easily tell the power company to go screw itself and just go off grid.

Battery banks for "regular" houses are an expensive pain in the ass. But people I know who have them enjoy their independence deep in their bones. Its an unfamiliar sense of freedom.
 
And that would be those who can see streets at night, or appreciate the safety provided by stop lights as well as other electrified public wonders.

Do you think drivers of electric vehicles charged with power generated exclusively by their own renewable energy sources are going to escape big registration fees one day?

Do you think gasoline taxes aren't going to double or quadruple when average fuel economy reaches 50 mpg?

I guess you would see all that as some big right wing corporatacracy conspiracy.

I would see it as the price of having roads to drive on.
 
The greatest single user of energy is public buildings. However, the typical population density of those public buildings makes them generally more efficient than a persons home.

Of course, to the hippie, off the grid types, I wonder how they square the grid tied energy required to manufacture all the cool mother nature like things they have around their off the grid homes.

The thing is, massive dollars are going to need to be spent, and is being spent, to upgrade the grid. Wait till word of the Smart Grid gets out, with the ability of the utilities to communicate with appliances in each persons home. Imagine, they will get to decide if your home is warm or cold enough, and be able to do something about it.

Of course, that's a whole different subject.

Of course the smart grid means excess capacity in electric vehicles could provide the grid's holy grail:

Storage.

Car banks need to be able to go 200 miles between charges to be "viable".

But the vast majority of people travel less than 50 miles a day.

So a substantial amount of energy just sits there.

Set a limit and throw a switch and the grid can use that excess.

Google has an experimental program that provides load levelling from the banks in its fleet.
 
Building homes that make more power than they take

How does a home "make power?"

That whole idea is fantasy.... They're trying to sell homes to a bunch of green idiots while preying on their "save the earth" progressive ignorance.












If you had the money, would you buy a smaller house that's built to be as "energy independent" as the ones described above, or would you opt for a bigger "conventional" house like the ones most of us have grown up in?




I would definitely go with smaller and energy independent.


I love the sound of what's described in the article.

Solar panels are useless because they take energy to manufacture, install and maintain. Not to mention they break before any potential savings accumulate that would potentially justify there mere existence.

This crap is the 21st centuries version of snake oil/radium...
 
Battery banks for "regular" houses are an expensive pain in the ass. But people I know who have them enjoy their independence deep in their bones. Its an unfamiliar sense of freedom.

I like turning on the news and hearing how everyone has lost power from the latest wind or ice storm while I watch my TV with lights on and think, must suck being you guys.:lol:
 
Solar panels are useless because they take energy to manufacture, install and maintain. Not to mention they break before any potential savings accumulate that would potentially justify there mere existence. This crap is the 21st centuries version of snake oil/radium...

Oh Yee of little faith! When the horseless carriage first came out it was an unreliable toy for the idle rich. The first aircraft- just another way to have an excellent chance at an early death. early steam ships used sail far more than coal. First railroads- odd curiosities.

What the industry is waiting for is a Henry Ford to step forward with a way to mass produce the panels at a cost the working man will folk to. PV technology is advancing as time and demand march on. Paints, sheets, films that greatly reduce cost to both make and maintain. I remember the first demand switching unit i saw- big tubes and a lot of heat. Now a small panel holds the entire system and you never hear it or even think about it.

Ya remind me of a scene out of an old movie- two old farts sitting in a wagon as a horseless carriage goes poppin' and a-hoppin' on by- "why you'll never catch me in one of those!" :lol:
 
There are a few companies here in my province that offer solar panels for free.

That's right, I wrote free.

The business model is simple but brilliant. The company locks in a price per kilowatt with the province. They then solicit business by looking for roofs for rent. Some criteria needs to be met, such as south/south west facing, and a minimum slope (30 degrees, I think). The company will then put as many solar panels as they can, and hook it up to give back to the grid. The homeowner will then get a fixed rate, based-on how many panels they were able to fit. My panels are set to be installed in the fall. No matter the amount of energy they will collect in any given year, I will be given approximately $500 for the next 25 years. After that time, the panels will belong to me. Imagine getting paid for doing nothing. I love it.

Is there any maintenance with that?
 
If you had the money, would you buy a smaller house that's built to be as "energy independent" as the ones described above, or would you opt for a bigger "conventional" house like the ones most of us have grown up in?




I would definitely go with smaller and energy independent.


I love the sound of what's described in the article.

I'd go with smaller and energy independent. I'd love to go solar, but at my age, and with the initial start-up costs, plus maintenance, it's not worth the investment.
 
Oh Yee of little faith! When the horseless carriage first came out it was an unreliable toy for the idle rich. The first aircraft- just another way to have an excellent chance at an early death. early steam ships used sail far more than coal. First railroads- odd curiosities.

What the industry is waiting for is a Henry Ford to step forward with a way to mass produce the panels at a cost the working man will folk to. PV technology is advancing as time and demand march on. Paints, sheets, films that greatly reduce cost to both make and maintain. I remember the first demand switching unit i saw- big tubes and a lot of heat. Now a small panel holds the entire system and you never hear it or even think about it.

Ya remind me of a scene out of an old movie- two old farts sitting in a wagon as a horseless carriage goes poppin' and a-hoppin' on by- "why you'll never catch me in one of those!" :lol:

I'm all for alternative energy however, we're no where close to having anything that is even remotely viable at this point in time.

The problem with solar panels is that they're all individually unique. One panel may exceed efficiency while another may fall way below efficiency... There is no way to fix that problem presently. Of course then you have the components and materials that makeup a solar panel which take energy to manufacture -- So presently solar panels are like a pandoras box of problems.

Then of course you have people like Obama saying "over the course of 10 years this green product will pay for its self in energy cost" well - yeah, but 90% of the time that product breaks before 10 years.
 
I'm all for alternative energy however, we're no where close to having anything that is even remotely viable at this point in time.

The problem with solar panels is that they're all individually unique. One panel may exceed efficiency while another may fall way below efficiency... There is no way to fix that problem presently. Of course then you have the components and materials that makeup a solar panel which take energy to manufacture -- So presently solar panels are like a pandoras box of problems.

A libertartian who doesn't believe in the market system... :shock:

Odd you make your claims with no stats to back it up, it is just as easy to say many folks are more than happy with their PV panel arrays and quite a few love their wind generators.

Those that gain the rep for dependability and efficiency gain market share according to the worshipers of the 'invisible hand'. not all automobile companies survived Henry Ford's advances. yes they take energy to produce but so does oil, gas and coal. Coal doesn't dig itself and hop into the furnace! ;)

Solar panels are a pandora's box of opportunities. :mrgreen:
 
Home I'm building has 90% south facing windows and on a sunny day in the dead of winter with below freezing temps I can let the fire go out and actually have to open windows to cool things off. Also I went ape on insulation and caulking. Solar panels provide the bulk of our elec and our water system is gravity fed, no deep well pumps. I'm not a greenie though, just trying to live cheap and efficient.

****ing hippy! My house has walls that are paper thin, 17 coal powered heaters and a water pump powered by chained-up deer.
 
A libertartian who doesn't believe in the market system... :shock:

Odd you make your claims with no stats to back it up, it is just as easy to say many folks are more than happy with their PV panel arrays and quite a few love their wind generators.

Those that gain the rep for dependability and efficiency gain market share according to the worshipers of the 'invisible hand'. not all automobile companies survived Henry Ford's advances. yes they take energy to produce but so does oil, gas and coal. Coal doesn't dig itself and hop into the furnace! ;)

Solar panels are a pandora's box of opportunities. :mrgreen:

I could give a rats ass if some idiot is satisfied with his/her solar panels - that still doesn't change the fact that the energy gained doesn't offset the energy lost by manufacturing and maintenance.

If idiot wants to install a solar panel and say: "look Todd free energy" sobeit...

Besides if solar energy was actually viable it would be the norm... However presently only trendy idiots and those who need to pander to trendy idiots are using the technology.
 
I'm all for alternative energy however, we're no where close to having anything that is even remotely viable at this point in time.

The problem with solar panels is that they're all individually unique. One panel may exceed efficiency while another may fall way below efficiency... There is no way to fix that problem presently. Of course then you have the components and materials that makeup a solar panel which take energy to manufacture -- So presently solar panels are like a pandoras box of problems.

Then of course you have people like Obama saying "over the course of 10 years this green product will pay for its self in energy cost" well - yeah, but 90% of the time that product breaks before 10 years.

Are you not aware that the more we make/use/manufacture, the better the technology will become??? There is nothing more attainable, cleaner, and easier to work than the sun. Nothing.
 
Sadly, there are power service companies who are looking to put a big dent in the benefits you can realize from adding solar power to your home. Especially here in Arizona where the sun can give you great returns on your investment (as long as the panels hold up) But as you can see from this article (and there are more) the power companies are worried their profits will take a big hit. They are looking to reduce the percentage of power generated for which they much reimburse the homeowner. If this keeps up, not only will they (power companies) get free power from your grid, but they may start charging you for the privilege. That ain't right.

APS wants to raise rates on home solar customers - CBS 5 - KPHO
 
Are you not aware that the more we make/use/manufacture, the better the technology will become??? There is nothing more attainable, cleaner, and easier to work than the sun. Nothing.

I understand, I'm just saying presently "green energy" is not viable.

I don't even believe the future of "green energy" is in solar energy - I believe it's in magnetics...
 
I could give a rats ass if some idiot is satisfied with his/her solar panels - that still doesn't change the fact that the energy gained doesn't offset the energy lost by manufacturing and maintenance. If idiot wants to install a solar panel and say: "look Todd free energy" sobeit... Besides if solar energy was actually viable it would be the norm... However presently only trendy idiots and those who need to pander to trendy idiots are using the technology.

You give no facts, just unsubstantiated opinion... you claim the panels fail 90% of the time in 10 years, cite no source for your claim, perhaps it comes from the same rat's butt you mentioned before? ;)

Test after test, available online for your consideration, shows they can last 40 years with a bit of care and most makers of the panels warranty them for 25! :shock:

tests show panels can lose approx 5% efficiency the first year but on average after 10 it is 1% a year loss.

You sound like an old fart I know- "If man was meant to fly he'd have wings!"

"Those damn fancy pants city slickers with their hustle and bustle- just how fast does a man need to go?" :lol:
 
You give no facts, just unsubstantiated opinion... you claim the panels fail 90% of the time in 10 years, cite no source for your claim, perhaps it comes from the same rat's butt you mentioned before? ;)

Test after test, available online for your consideration, shows they can last 40 years with a bit of care and most makers of the panels warranty them for 25! :shock:

tests show panels can lose approx 5% efficiency the first year but on average after 10 it is 1% a year loss.

You sound like an old fart I know- "If man was meant to fly he'd have wings!"

"Those damn fancy pants city slickers with their hustle and bustle- just how fast does a man need to go?" :lol:

The simple fact solar panels aren't the status quo is my proof.....

If you were right we would presently live in a solar power haven -- but we don't now why is that? a conspiracy against the "environment."
 
Building homes that make more power than they take











If you had the money, would you buy a smaller house that's built to be as "energy independent" as the ones described above, or would you opt for a bigger "conventional" house like the ones most of us have grown up in?




I would definitely go with smaller and energy independent.


I love the sound of what's described in the article.

house in the pic looks big enough to me. i especially like the thick concrete walls. that would be much safer in a tornado.
 
The simple fact solar panels aren't the status quo is my proof..... If you were right we would presently live in a solar power haven -- but we don't now why is that? a conspiracy against the "environment."

More opinion with ZERO fact to back it. Your unfounded claims of 90% fail in 10 years is ca-ca. The fact that not everyone has a solar array is more due to resistance in our culture than practicality. Remember how Carter was castigated for putting solar panels on the White House and Reagan made a big macho deal of removing them? Arnold was driving his Hummer and smoking those tobacco penises belittling 'girlie-men'.

Advances are reducing the cost, increasing the reliability, and efficiency. some who don't sit on the sidelines making up stuff are starting to see the advantages to solar- every new invention doesn't start with instant widespread acceptance. It has taken far too long but the false bravado of burn baby burn when it comes to how we make energy is finally being rolled back.

Several unrelated to solar factors work against widespread use- not every house has either the yard or the roof orientation to use the panels, not every climate is as sun friendly as others- FYI I see more and more solar panels in Lawton OK everytime i go to town, and many are reluctant to be the first on their block.

You still sound like the old fart-
Cars are just rich man toys
Planes will never turn a profit
Wind is free why would a ship's captain pay for coal?

Americans are said to have a love affair with the automobile, yet it was not an overnite sensation. In 1920 there was one car for every 10 Americans, it took to 1975 to cut that in half, to 2000 to almost get to one per person, and there weren't a bunch of politicians pushing back on car ownership like for renewable energy. :roll:

But by all means sit there and claim solar power isn't taking off, that 90% of the panels fail in 10 years and be blinded to the fact that ALL sources of power take energy to produce- that coal don't dig itself.... :peace
 
More opinion with ZERO fact to back it. Your unfounded claims of 90% fail in 10 years is ca-ca. The fact that not everyone has a solar array is more due to resistance in our culture than practicality. Remember how Carter was castigated for putting solar panels on the White House and Reagan made a big macho deal of removing them? Arnold was driving his Hummer and smoking those tobacco penises belittling 'girlie-men'.

Advances are reducing the cost, increasing the reliability, and efficiency. some who don't sit on the sidelines making up stuff are starting to see the advantages to solar- every new invention doesn't start with instant widespread acceptance. It has taken far too long but the false bravado of burn baby burn when it comes to how we make energy is finally being rolled back.

Several unrelated to solar factors work against widespread use- not every house has either the yard or the roof orientation to use the panels, not every climate is as sun friendly as others- FYI I see more and more solar panels in Lawton OK everytime i go to town, and many are reluctant to be the first on their block.

You still sound like the old fart-
Cars are just rich man toys
Planes will never turn a profit
Wind is free why would a ship's captain pay for coal?

Americans are said to have a love affair with the automobile, yet it was not an overnite sensation. In 1920 there was one car for every 10 Americans, it took to 1975 to cut that in half, to 2000 to almost get to one per person, and there weren't a bunch of politicians pushing back on car ownership like for renewable energy. :roll:

But by all means sit there and claim solar power isn't taking off, that 90% of the panels fail in 10 years and be blinded to the fact that ALL sources of power take energy to produce- that coal don't dig itself.... :peace

You're attempting to cite "cultural resistance" as the main reason as to why society as a whole doesn't embrace solar energy? yet everyone and their momma are driving "green cars" these days while shopping with "green bags?"

"Green" is its own industry.

Solar panels are NOT energy viable - their cost doesn't justify their means. That's why they're not being used as a main source of energy.

Average Lifespan of Solar Panels

Yea a "good quality" solar panel that is "well maintained" "could last" around 40 years.

Yeah and a "good quality" car that is "well maintained" "could last" indefinitely... But we all know cars generally last 10 years until they're no longer worth the money to repair...
 
Back
Top Bottom