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'Buffer zone' needed to fight terror, says Turkey's opposition chief

kaya'08

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Creating a buffer zone on the Iraqi side of the border would decrease casualties by helping keep terrorists out of Turkey, the main opposition leader has said, adding that the idea should receive U.S. support.
I dont think a buffer zone will make any difference. Our plans to replace conscript force patrols with elite Turkish soldiers are going to have a huge impact, though.

'Buffer zone' needed to fight terror, says Turkey's opposition chief - Hurriyet Daily News and Economic Review

EDIT: Im posting some Turkey issues in the ME, and some in Europe. Because of our geopolitical location, whatever issue will have a direct impact on the ME will go here, and policies/issues having an impact in Europe/our Balkans region will go there.
 

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I dont think a buffer zone will make any difference. Our plans to replace conscript force patrols with elite Turkish soldiers are going to have a huge impact, though.

'Buffer zone' needed to fight terror, says Turkey's opposition chief - Hurriyet Daily News and Economic Review

EDIT: Im posting some Turkey issues in the ME, and some in Europe. Because of our geopolitical location, whatever issue will have a direct impact on the ME will go here, and policies/issues having an impact in Europe/our Balkans region will go there.
The world should be protecting the Kurds from the Turks!
 

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Could you please elaborate? Are you advocating terrorism?
I am against any form of terrorism. It is my understanding that the Kurds want their homeland which currently is part of Iraq and Turkey. Attacks against civilians, even if the Kurds say is to move their agenda forward should be frowned upon and not supported.
 

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I am against any form of terrorism. It is my understanding that the Kurds want their homeland which currently is part of Iraq and Turkey. Attacks against civilians, even if the Kurds say is to move their agenda forward should be frowned upon and not supported.
Firstly, i hope you understand Turkey is a Turkish state, and that what happens in Kurdistan (Kirkuk) is irrelevant to us or our boarders.
Lastly, Kurds have been the target of huge democratization policies. Today they remain indifferent to the rest of society. They can speak there language, name there villages, and live as they please - because they are part of the election process, and because they have no interest in housing and aiding the PKK. As for Kurdish civilian deaths, i assume you talk of civilians killed in N Iraq air strikes. These air strikes are carried out in remote area's, and so any collateral damage was inevitable and unfortunate.
 
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mbig

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Firstly, i hope you understand Turkey is a Turkish state, and that what happens in Kurdistan (Kirkuk) is irrelevant to us or our boarders.
That should be true but certainly is Not.
Turkey objected to an independent Kurdistan even solely within Iraq.

Lastly, Kurds have been the target of huge democratization policies. Today they remain indifferent to the rest of society. They can speak there language, name there villages, and live as they please - because they are part of the election process, and because they have no interest in housing and aiding the PKK.
But up until these NEW policies, which were in part instituted only because Turkey wanted in the EU, Turkey oppressed the Kurds Mightily.
From Killing and Cleansing hundreds of villages to Banning the Language or even allowing traditional Kurdish names to be given to their children.
 
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kaya'08

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That's should be true but certainly is NOT.
Turkey objected to an independent Kurdistan even solely within Iraq.
What is not true about it?
It did object then. However, Turkey and Barzani are now communicating together at levels never seen before both in the fields of security and economic cooperation. Gul also stated "Kurdistan" when describing Kirkuk on his visit there.


But up until these NEW policies which were in large part instituted only because Turkey wanted in the EU, Turkey oppressed the Kurds Mightily.
Yes, its Turkey's dedication to the EU which in turn reflects its dedication to resolve its domestic issues in regards to Democracy and human rights. :peace

From Killing and Cleansing hundreds of villages to Banning the Language or even allowing traditional Kurdish names to children.
Turks are not interested in the repeatedly denounced and unpopular decisions of past nationalist governments who have been dealt with by coups.
Today's Turkey is different to yesterday's. As a Turk, i intend to look ahead. Now, about the native American genocide....(see, it just dont work).
 

mbig

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What is not true about it?
It did object then.
However, Turkey and Barzani are now communicating together at levels never seen before both in the fields of security and economic cooperation. Gul also stated "Kurdistan" when describing Kirkuk []on his visit there[/B].
You were just forced to admit it wasn't true by me.
See your first two self-impeaching sentences.

Yes, its Turkey's dedication to the EU which in turn reflects its dedication to resolve its domestic issues in regards to Democracy and human rights. :peace
Yes that really helped. The EU was unhappy with Turkish behavior.


Turks are not interested in the repeatedly denounced and unpopular decisions of past nationalist governments who have been dealt with by coups.
Today's Turkey is different to yesterday's. As a Turk, i intend to look ahead. Now, about the native American genocide....(see, it just dont work).
So unwittingly comparing the USA's treatment of the Native Americans to Recent Turkish treatment of the Kurds.
True enough.
 
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kaya'08

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You were just forced to admit it wasn't true by me.
See your first two self-impeaching sentences.
Whats not true about Turkey being a Turkish state?
I was commenting on your initial sentence of the quote.

That's should be true but certainly is NOT.
I assumed you was brining into question the unity structure of the Turkish state.


Yes it in large part that's what helped. The EU was unhappy with Turkish behavior.
Yet it was the will of Turkey to make these changes, not the EU. Nobody forced us. There is one message in our parliament, irrespective of Kemalist/Religious leaning: We need more democracy.

So unwittingly comparing the USA's treatment of the Native Americans to Turkish treatment of the Kurds just a decade ago.
True enough.
The America then is not the America now.
I can honestly say the landscape of Turkey has changed to such a point i can say the degree of difference of 2010 America with 1900's America is the same degree of difference with 2010 Turkey and 1980 Turkey.
 
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mbig

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Whats not true about Turkey being a Turkish state? :doh
What was untrue was your Beauty that Turkey didn't care about a Kurdish state in Iraq.
Now you're being completely disingenuous and changing the issue.

Yet it was the will of Turkey to make these changes, not the EU. Nobody forced us. There is one message in our parliament, irrespective of Kemalist/Religious leaning: We need more democracy.
They pushed you... and Turkey's Ethnic Cleansing of the Kurds was getting embarrassing especially when EU membership started becoming a considertion in the late 90's.


The America then is not the America now.
I can honestly say the landscape of Turkey has changed to such a point i can say the degree of difference of 2010 America with 1900's America is the same degree of difference with 2010 Turkey and 1980 Turkey.
Even in 2000 many laws and practices remained in force against the Kurds.
You rightly but unwittingly compared that to the USA's century/centuries old treatment of Native Americans.
If the Shoe fits .. wear it.

Kemalism sought to eliminate everything but Turkish Nationalism.
The good? It Stopped Turkey from becoming Islamist and enabled it to keep up with the world in many respects.
The Bad? It tried to Cleanse everything but Turkish nationalism and denied the Kurdish identity.
 
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kaya'08

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What was untrue was your Beauty that Turkey didn't care about a Kurdish state in Iraq.
Now you're being completely disingenuous and changing the issue.
No, thats not what i meant. If you read my post clearly, you would realize that what i was saying is regardless if a Kurdish state is created or not, it has nothing to do with us or our boarders. Kurdistan has nothing to do with a chunk of Eastern Turkey. Its a Kurdish socialist pipe dream.


They pushed you... and Turkey's Ethnic Cleansing of the Kurds was getting embarrassing especially when EU membership started becoming a considertion in the late 90's.
No they didn't. The disgusting ethnic attacks against Kurds sparked protests within Turkey. Turkish unhappiness with the situation soon saw the removal of those powers from office.
We have no desire to engage with nationalist violence.
If they pushed us, we would have changed the law in the 90's.
Does the AKP look like they play with Western pressure? Thats there whole controversy.

Even in 2000 many laws and practices remained in force against the Kurds.
You rightly but unwittingly compared that to the USA's century/centuries old treatment of Native Americans.
If the Shoe fits .. wear it.
You unwittingly compared current Turkey to its past, i used an example and done the same with America. Its unfair.

Kemalism sought to eliminate everything but Turkish Nationalism.
The good? It Stopped Turkey from becoming Islamist and enabled it to keep up with the world in many respects.
The Bad? It tried to Cleanse everything but Turkish nationalism and denied the Kurdish identity.
Kemalist nationalism in no part advocates the forced ethnic integration of others.
It believes in the national term "Turk".
Since ethnically we are a mix of both East and West, we cannot be defined as one ethnic group but rather a collection of nationals belonging to Anatolia. That was the definition of Kemalist nationalism. It doesn't deny the right, however, to self-determination.
The nationalism we saw back then was nationalist extremism, not Kemalist nationalism. Yet you act like the powers that be at the time acted under civilian wants. In fact the situation went down so badly with Turks, the very army who had carried out the attacks where forced to kill the generals who had agreed to those disgusting raids and then overthrow the government.
 
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mbig

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No, thats not what i meant. If you read my post clearly, you would realize that what i was saying is regardless if a Kurdish state is created or not, it has nothing to do with us or our boarders. Kurdistan has nothing to do with a chunk of Eastern Turkey. Its a Kurdish socialist pipe dream.
I read you post clearly and refuted it.
Which is why you had to change the subject/try and make it into a joke.


No they didn't. The disgusting ethnic attacks against Kurds sparked protests within Turkey. Turkish unhappiness with the situation soon saw the removal of those powers from office.
We have no desire to engage with nationalist violence.
If they pushed us, we would have changed the law in the 90's.
Grotesque BS.
Turkey suddenly decided to be humane starting around 2000? That's not credible.
I would invite everyone Else (as Kaya thinks he can BS everyone else) to just use the above keywords and google about EU membership, Turkey, and Kurds.


You unwittingly compared current Turkey to its past, i used an example and done the same with America. Its unfair.
No. YOU compared/counterattacked that America's treatment of the Native Americans was like Turkey's treatment of the Kurds.
I agreed. Ooops.
But when I pointed out how much more recent Turkey's offenses were.. you had to scurry. And still are.

Kemalist nationalism in no part advocates the forced ethnic integration of others.
It believes in the national term "Turk".
Nice self-impeachment. Couldn't you wait a few more sentences instead of consecutive ones?

Since ethnically we are a mix of both East and West, we cannot be defined as one ethnic group but rather a collection of nationals belonging to Anatolia. That was the definition of Kemalist nationalism. It doesn't deny the right, however, to self-determination.
The nationalism we saw back then was nationalist extremism, not Kemalist nationalism. Yet you act like the powers that be at the time acted under civilian wants. In fact the situation went down so badly with Turks, the very army who had carried out the attacks where forced to kill the generals who had agreed to those disgusting raids and then overthrow the government.
What "we". So there are no Kurds, just "Turks".
I know. That's my point.
 
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Could you please elaborate? Are you advocating terrorism?
I didn't hear him say that.
However, in times like this, I find it difficult to find the difference between the Turkish army and the PKK.
 

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I didn't hear him say that.
However, in times like this, I find it difficult to find the difference between the Turkish army and the PKK.
Really? The Turkish army didn't murder a bunch of activists on an aid flotilla.
 

kaya'08

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I read you post clearly and refuted it.
Which is why you had to change the subject/try and make it into a joke.
What are you talking about? You misunderstood me completely.

Grotesque BS.
Turkey suddenly decided to be humane starting around 2000? That's not credible.
I would invite everyone Else (as Kaya thinks he can BS everyone else) to just use the above keywords and google about EU membership, Turkey, and Kurds.
Firstly you could start by stopping the inflammatory words because your not going to get a reaction.
Secondly Turkey has always been humane. NEVER has the Turkish population supported the disgusting nationalism shown by past governments. Today, the emphasis on equal rights and Democracy has never been stronger in Turkey. Yes, i have no doubt in my mind today's Turkey is transformed. What is happening with Ergenekon was beyond unthinkable even just 5 years ago.


No. YOU compared/counterattacked that America's treatment of the Native Americans was like Turkey's treatment of the Kurds.
I agreed. Ooops.
But when I pointed out how much more recent Turkey's offenses were.. you had to scurry. And still are.
Not at all. I think its unfair to compare a very unpopular decision in Turkey by a very unpopular administration which got removed by the army with Turkish people or the Turkey today which no longer has a de junta military constitution which allowed for things like that to happen.


Nice self-impeachment. Couldn't you wait a few more sentences instead of consecutive ones?

What "we". So there are no Kurds, just "Turks".
I know. That's my point.
No, the term Turk refers to everybody who has Turkish citizenship. That includes ethnic Turks, Kurds, Americans, Armenians, Greek's and Israeli's.
 

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What a pathetic argument.
The PKK strap bombs to themselves. Do you really want to continue this conversation?
Yeah but it's not like the PKK uses the murderous zionist entity's UAVs to murder scores of Kurds in the sovereign part of Iraq.
 
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Yeah but it's not like the PKK uses the murderous zionist entity's UAVs to murder scores of Kurds in the sovereign part of Iraq.
Since when did TAF use UAV's to target civilians? We have a right under international law to be in N Iraq, because the PKK pose an undeniable sovereign threat. Israel on the other hand is a joke. No only have they embargoed Gaza and caused an economic situation in which Hamas cannot operate to the extent it poses any sovereign threat to Israel, but there airstrikes are far more frequent, are subject to far more collateral damage and are done on a much larger scale. There is no mass execution of Iraqi Kurds, no blockade, no forced emmigration.
 
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Since when did TAF use UAV's to target civilians?
Turkey has murdered hundreds of kurds in Iraq during the recent years.
Sure it calls them rebels but frankly I don't believe Turkey more than I believe the PKK.
 

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Turkey has murdered hundreds of kurds in Iraq during the recent years.
Sure it calls them rebels but frankly I don't believe Turkey more than I believe the PKK.
That's because they are rebels. Just because Israel has no regard for Palestinian life, it doesn't mean we would kill civilian targets and brand them as rebels. We are Turkey, we are a Democracy which aspires to join the EU. Sorry you are so blinded by partisanship you can't see that. Barzani is our important ally, and so are the Kurds in the East. Believe what you want, but our targets are also known by the US because we cooperate with them in a security triangle with Iraq. We have nothing to hide. You on the other hand....:shrug:
 

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That's because they are rebels. Just because Israel has no regard for Palestinian life, it doesn't mean we would kill civilian targets and brand them as rebels. We are Turkey, we are a Democracy which aspires to join the EU. Sorry you are so blinded by partisanship you can't see that. Barzani is our important ally, and so are the Kurds in the East. Believe what you want, but our targets are also known by the US because we cooperate with them in a security triangle with Iraq. We have nothing to hide. You on the other hand....:shrug:
Israel is off-topic, this is about Turkey.
Turkey has murdered scores of innocent Kurds in northern Iraq, it has no regard for Kurdish lives and simply labels them all as rebels to make it easier to kill them all.
I am sorry that you are so blinded by partisanship that you can't see this.
 

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Israel is off-topic, this is about Turkey.
Turkey has murdered scores of innocent Kurds in northern Iraq, it has no regard for Kurdish lives and simply labels them all as rebels to make it easier to kill them all.
I am sorry that you are so blinded by partisanship that you can't see this.
Where's your proof that it has murdered innocent Kurds and labeled them as rebels? All our targets are verified by the security triangle. You have nothing.

;)
 

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Where's your proof that it has murdered innocent Kurds and labeled them as rebels? All our targets are verified by the security triangle. You have nothing.

;)
A few weeks ago Turkey has committed a raid in Norhtern Iraq, murdering over a hundred Kurdish people.
Turkey has managed to hide those figures until a few weeks later, only then did the horror of the TAF's actions came to light.
The fact that Turkey is simply able to hide such figures is disturbing at the least, how could anyone turst the TAF more than he trusts the PKK is beyond me, I simply am not able to see the difference between the two.

Here's an article from the German Der Spiegel paper, describing some of the oppression and murders of the Kurdish people by the Turks.
Turkey's Dirty War against the Kurds: 'We Used to Murder People at Night When the Soldiers Weren't Around' - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International
 

kaya'08

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A few weeks ago Turkey has committed a raid in Norhtern Iraq, murdering over a hundred Kurdish people.
Turkey has managed to hide those figures until a few weeks later, only then did the horror of the TAF's actions came to light.
The fact that Turkey is simply able to hide such figures is disturbing at the least, how could anyone turst the TAF more than he trusts the PKK is beyond me, I simply am not able to see the difference between the two.

Here's an article from the German Der Spiegel paper, describing some of the oppression and murders of the Kurdish people by the Turks.
Turkey's Dirty War against the Kurds: 'We Used to Murder People at Night When the Soldiers Weren't Around' - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International
ROFL.
You make it up as you go along dont you? Easily the biggest BSitter on DP. 100 Kurds murdered just a few weeks ago? Provide a link.
Why are you providing me a link with what nationalist governments in the 90's done? Turks and past administration have continuously denounced and disgraced these disgusting events. That very administration had to be removed by the military in the end.
 
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