Brown Putting the Progressive Back Into the Ontario PCs

[Carjosse]

I was reading this article on the Globe and Mail yesterday and it looks like Patrick Brown has figured out why no one likes the Ontario Progressive Conservatives. They figured out they cannot win the social issues battle so they have decided to live up to the progressive part of their name. This is what the Progressive Conservative party should be about, progressive social policy with fiscal conservatism a battle they can actually fight. The federal Conservatives could learn a lot. Though I never thought they would turn with a rather famous social conservative as leader but it looks like he has turned around.

So what do you think about this new shiny progressiveness from the Ontario PCs? I still will not vote for them but hey, they are trying. It takes a lot to realize what is wrong with your party and change it.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

I was reading this article on the Globe and Mail yesterday and it looks like Patrick Brown has figured out why no one likes the Ontario Progressive Conservatives. They figured out they cannot win the social issues battle so they have decided to live up to the progressive part of their name. This is what the Progressive Conservative party should be about, progressive social policy with fiscal conservatism a battle they can actually fight. The federal Conservatives could learn a lot. Though I never thought they would turn with a rather famous social conservative as leader but it looks like he has turned around.

So what do you think about this new shiny progressiveness from the Ontario PCs? I still will not vote for them but hey, they are trying. It takes a lot to realize what is wrong with your party and change it.

The social issues in Canada always have been tied with European christian issues. If the social conservatives could dump the euro centric aspects they potentially could get a significant boost from south asian voters on social conservative issues. (Both hindu and muslim)

 

[rjay]

I was reading this article on the Globe and Mail yesterday and it looks like Patrick Brown has figured out why no one likes the Ontario Progressive Conservatives. They figured out they cannot win the social issues battle so they have decided to live up to the progressive part of their name. This is what the Progressive Conservative party should be about, progressive social policy with fiscal conservatism a battle they can actually fight. The federal Conservatives could learn a lot. Though I never thought they would turn with a rather famous social conservative as leader but it looks like he has turned around.

So what do you think about this new shiny progressiveness from the Ontario PCs? I still will not vote for them but hey, they are trying. It takes a lot to realize what is wrong with your party and change it.

The Ontario PC party has lost the last two elections by espousing neo-conservative policies. That was two elections where Ontario voters really wanted to throw the bums out. The PC party, under Hudak, made it look like the only thing worse than re-electing the Liberals, would be to vote in the PCs. All they had to do was offer sound economic management and not be scarey. They couldn't resist spitting out the scarey policies. Hey it worked for Harper.


Give me a PC party that runs on sound fiscal management and I will give you a PC majority in Ontario.

 

[SDET]

I was reading this article on the Globe and Mail yesterday and it looks like Patrick Brown has figured out why no one likes the Ontario Progressive Conservatives. They figured out they cannot win the social issues battle so they have decided to live up to the progressive part of their name. This is what the Progressive Conservative party should be about, progressive social policy with fiscal conservatism a battle they can actually fight. The federal Conservatives could learn a lot. Though I never thought they would turn with a rather famous social conservative as leader but it looks like he has turned around.

So what do you think about this new shiny progressiveness from the Ontario PCs? I still will not vote for them but hey, they are trying. It takes a lot to realize what is wrong with your party and change it.

Why bother voting if you're just going to have three left-leaning parties? I presume many Canadians have forgotten Kim Campbell and the 1993 Canadian Federal Election.

 

[Carjosse]

Why bother voting if you're just going to have three left-leaning parties? I presume many Canadians have forgotten Kim Campbell and the 1993 Canadian Federal Election.

Canadians are not socially conservative, we are naturally left-leaning at least socially. It is what the Progressive Conservatives used to stand for. Elections are won in the GTA, and urban areas are usually socially progressive regardless.

 

[SDET]

Canadians are not socially conservative, we are naturally left-leaning at least socially. It is what the Progressive Conservatives used to stand for. Elections are won in the GTA, and urban areas are usually socially progressive regardless.

I don't doubt what you're saying. However, one must give Preston Manning credit. He managed to promote social conservatism when the only other option for the voter was enduring the pain the Grits were inflicting. Enough voters were convinced that accommodating social conservatives was a price worth paying. Preston Manning, Stockwell Day and Stephen Harper were an excellent tag team, each building off the other. I hope Canadian Conservatives keep working, planning and waiting for a repeat performance and not become "Grit-lite". The leftist politics of contrived scarcity will rear its head soon enough and people will once again get tired of suffering.

 

[Surrealistik]

I don't doubt what you're saying. However, one must give Preston Manning credit. He managed to promote social conservatism when the only other option for the voter was enduring the pain the Grits were inflicting. Enough voters were convinced that accommodating social conservatives was a price worth paying. Preston Manning, Stockwell Day and Stephen Harper were an excellent tag team, each building off the other. I hope Canadian Conservatives keep working, planning and waiting for a repeat performance and not become "Grit-lite". The leftist politics of contrived scarcity will rear its head soon enough and people will once again get tired of suffering.

Assuming democratic reform goes ahead (it will) and we get either of the two likely outcomes of proportional representation or runoff ballots (extremely probable), I very much doubt that the Canadian Conservatives will be a force on the federal level for a very long time. CCs have always managed to win via split of the left vote, and such reform makes this effectively impossible (if anyone's wondering why the Conservatives are fighting elimination of First Past the Post tooth and nail, look no further), nevermind the tremendous popularity of Trudeau's government. This is doubly true if and when publicly financed elections are re-instituted (the Conservatives will lose a big portion of their fundraising edge as well).

On the Ontario level though, things are more interesting; the Ontario Liberals are a ****show of mismanagement and corruption, and the only reason they won is because the serious alternative at the time of their elections was an even worse Conservative alternative. In the future I expect to see it be more of a three way running if the Conservatives go moderate/progressive on social policy; if not, it will come down to the waning Liberals and ascendant NDP.

 

[SDET]

Assuming democratic reform goes ahead (it will) and we get either of the two likely outcomes of proportional representation or runoff ballots (extremely probable), I very much doubt that the Canadian Conservatives will be a force on the federal level for a very long time. CCs have always managed to win via split of the left vote, and such reform makes this effectively impossible (if anyone's wondering why the Conservatives are fighting elimination of First Past the Post tooth and nail, look no further), nevermind the tremendous popularity of Trudeau's government. This is doubly true if and when publicly financed elections are re-instituted (the Conservatives will lose a big portion of their fundraising edge as well).

On the Ontario level though, things are more interesting; the Ontario Liberals are a ****show of mismanagement and corruption, and the only reason they won is because the serious alternative at the time of their elections was an even worse Conservative alternative. In the future I expect to see it be more of a three way running if the Conservatives go moderate/progressive on social policy; if not, it will come down to the waning Liberals and ascendant NDP.

You raised a point I completely forgot about. If the first-past-the-post electoral system goes away that would mean a runoff where the left is no longer split.

 

[Carjosse]

You raised a point I completely forgot about. If the first-past-the-post electoral system goes away that would mean a runoff where the left is no longer split.

Well on a preferential ballot the Liberals will always win, because who is a Conservative voter going to put as their second choice? The Liberals. Who is the NDP supporter going to put as a second choice? The Liberals.

 

[SDET]

Well on a preferential ballot the Liberals will always win, because who is a Conservative voter going to put as their second choice? The Liberals. Who is the NDP supporter going to put as a second choice? The Liberals.

This is just a guess, but I suspect these guys would gain interest if there were a preferential ballot.

https://www.libertarian.ca/

I have been trying to read up on this and get the impression that an overly complicated system would smack of Venezuela-style election rigging. The runoff approach seems easier to sell because it's simple and assures whomever is elected was approved my a majority. It's used in Georgia and Texas with no complaints that I know of.

 

[Carjosse]

This is just a guess, but I suspect these guys would gain interest if there were a preferential ballot.

https://www.libertarian.ca/

I have been trying to read up on this and get the impression that an overly complicated system would smack of Venezuela-style election rigging. The runoff approach seems easier to sell because it's simple and assures whomever is elected was approved my a majority. It's used in Georgia and Texas with no complaints that I know of.

They are the an extremely minor party, they are whackjobs here. They are pretty anti-everything Canada stands for. They want to make us into the US.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

This is just a guess, but I suspect these guys would gain interest if there were a preferential ballot.

https://www.libertarian.ca/

I have been trying to read up on this and get the impression that an overly complicated system would smack of Venezuela-style election rigging. The runoff approach seems easier to sell because it's simple and assures whomever is elected was approved my a majority. It's used in Georgia and Texas with no complaints that I know of.

A proportional system would ensure minor parties would get seats in government, nearly ensuring a minority government nearly all the time.

 

[Carjosse]

A proportional system would ensure minor parties would get seats in government, nearly ensuring a minority government nearly all the time.

It would actually do nothing for minor parties unless you mean the Greens and the Bloc. The other minor parties have no where near enough support to get even one seat.

 

[CanadaJohn]

I was reading this article on the Globe and Mail yesterday and it looks like Patrick Brown has figured out why no one likes the Ontario Progressive Conservatives. They figured out they cannot win the social issues battle so they have decided to live up to the progressive part of their name. This is what the Progressive Conservative party should be about, progressive social policy with fiscal conservatism a battle they can actually fight. The federal Conservatives could learn a lot. Though I never thought they would turn with a rather famous social conservative as leader but it looks like he has turned around.

So what do you think about this new shiny progressiveness from the Ontario PCs? I still will not vote for them but hey, they are trying. It takes a lot to realize what is wrong with your party and change it.

It really doesn't matter, from my perspective, what the Ontario PCs stand for as long as in the next election they focus totally and entirely on a promise to rescind the Liberals Green Energy Act, their Cap and Trade taxing bill, and their proposed new future energy program that will force Ontario residents into electric cars and electric heat while bankrupting the Ontario economy and Ontario's residents. Nothing else matters.

Premier Wynne and her Liberal government are criminally incompetent and I've never said this about another person but I hope the woman dies a very prolonged and painful death for the harm she and her government has done to this once great Province. I hope there's a hell so she can rot in it.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

It would actually do nothing for minor parties unless you mean the Greens and the Bloc. The other minor parties have no where near enough support to get even one seat.

In general I would mean parties the size of the Green's. It would allow for the creation of at least one more to the right conservative party like the Reform party was to the PC's. The center left already has the Liberals, NDP and Greens taking up votes

 

[SDET]

They are the an extremely minor party, they are whackjobs here. They are pretty anti-everything Canada stands for. They want to make us into the US.

If there's a demand for a second choice party for Conservative voters in a preferential system, someone will provide a supply.

 

[Carjosse]

If there's a demand for a second choice party for Conservative voters in a preferential system, someone will provide a supply.

And the Liberals fit that, since they are the centre party.