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British Hopitals: Patients check- in but they don't check-out

Fisher

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Low nursing staff levels to blame for high hospital death rates, reveals report into NHS care - Health News - Health & Families - The Independent

Hospitals at the centre of a major review into the safety of NHS care all had “inadequate” nursing staff levels, according to early leaks from Sir Bruce Keogh’s report.

.....
A leaked email has shown that NHS England’s medical director Sir Bruce was angered by reports that claimed that the 14 hospitals covered by his review had been responsible for 13,000 avoidable deaths.....



But according to the World Health Organization British healthcare is so much more peachy than it is in the US.......:shock:
 

Spriggs05

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Low nursing staff levels to blame for high hospital death rates, reveals report into NHS care - Health News - Health & Families - The Independent

Hospitals at the centre of a major review into the safety of NHS care all had “inadequate” nursing staff levels, according to early leaks from Sir Bruce Keogh’s report.

.....
A leaked email has shown that NHS England’s medical director Sir Bruce was angered by reports that claimed that the 14 hospitals covered by his review had been responsible for 13,000 avoidable deaths.....



But according to the World Health Organization British healthcare is so much more peachy than it is in the US.......:shock:
Just because we have it doesn't make it better. Anytime I've seen people who have just been to the NHS for some reason always say the same thing: the nurses are grumpy, there's a long waiting queue and you aren't attended to well.

However it does have its up points such as being free but not much else off the top of my head.
 

Manc Skipper

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These are the 14 worst-performing trusts in England, from a total of 166. The deaths are not actual but notional "extra" deaths compared with the death rates from the best-performing trusts.
 

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Low nursing staff levels to blame for high hospital death rates, reveals report into NHS care - Health News - Health & Families - The Independent

Hospitals at the centre of a major review into the safety of NHS care all had “inadequate” nursing staff levels, according to early leaks from Sir Bruce Keogh’s report.

.....
A leaked email has shown that NHS England’s medical director Sir Bruce was angered by reports that claimed that the 14 hospitals covered by his review had been responsible for 13,000 avoidable deaths.....



But according to the World Health Organization British healthcare is so much more peachy than it is in the US.......:shock:
Yeah, not surprising. According to the WHO, quality of healthcare centers around social issues and cheap or "free" accessibility, and not actual outcomes of care.
 

Fisher

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These are the 14 worst-performing trusts in England, from a total of 166. The deaths are not actual but notional "extra" deaths compared with the death rates from the best-performing trusts.
When is a death not an actual death exactly?
 

MaggieD

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Low nursing staff levels to blame for high hospital death rates, reveals report into NHS care - Health News - Health & Families - The Independent

Hospitals at the centre of a major review into the safety of NHS care all had “inadequate” nursing staff levels, according to early leaks from Sir Bruce Keogh’s report.

.....
A leaked email has shown that NHS England’s medical director Sir Bruce was angered by reports that claimed that the 14 hospitals covered by his review had been responsible for 13,000 avoidable deaths.....



But according to the World Health Organization British healthcare is so much more peachy than it is in the US.......:shock:
A dear friend of mine's brother got a tentative diagnosis of pancreatic cancer. Lives in London. To confirm it and get treatment, he needed a body scan. That was scheduled for three months in the future. He was dead before his appointment. I tried to assuage my friend's total consternation over what he perceived as the worst medical care in the history of the world by telling him that his brother probably had a more comfortable journey without the **** they would have poured into his body . . . I hope it helped.
 

Fisher

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I think US business was headed in the right direction as to healthcare except for the money part of it. I think the creation of health systems/networks and willingness of tier 1 hospitals to take all trauma/critical patients dusted out of feeder hospitals helps. In addition, access to cutting edge technology by lease is a more scalable enterprise in some place like the US for GE than perhaps in the UK. Rather than make hospitals buy all their equipment, I know GE has some system involving per use leasing.
 

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Don't have to worry about checking into American hospitals if u don't have insurance.
 

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When is a death not an actual death exactly?

They're not actual when they're extrapolated from the data by bean-counters, then misrepresented by politicians.

As quoted in the OP, "Sir Bruce was angered by the claims" because they were bollocks.
 

Higgins86

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These threads really get on my nerves, full of American conservatives trying to convince us that our healthcare system is failing. Guess what most western countries have a universal health care system and the majority of people are happy with these systems. They make sure that even the poorest have coverage to healthcare and if your rich and feel like you deserve better you can pay for private healthcare, we don't sit around talking about why America hasn't converted to our healthcare system yet and quite frankly the world does not care what system you have in America. No one in the UK has ever said that the NHS is perfect in fact its often quite the opposite but that being said we are not having a national debate about our health care system that would be America. So why don't you all take this little topic and apply it to your absurd partisan healthcare debate in the health care section and leave us Europeans out of it. Thanks.
 

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Low nursing staff levels to blame for high hospital death rates, reveals report into NHS care - Health News - Health & Families - The Independent

Hospitals at the centre of a major review into the safety of NHS care all had “inadequate” nursing staff levels, according to early leaks from Sir Bruce Keogh’s report.

.....
A leaked email has shown that NHS England’s medical director Sir Bruce was angered by reports that claimed that the 14 hospitals covered by his review had been responsible for 13,000 avoidable deaths.....



But according to the World Health Organization British healthcare is so much more peachy than it is in the US.......:shock:
Lets see...First off such studies rarely are conducted in the US and since it is a massive private industry then there is next to no cooperation between hospitals and sharing of statistics. Look how long it took for the government to post costs of procedures in a freaking spreadsheet.

Now according to one of the few studies out there.. which is 14 years old yes.. but the US healthcare system has hardly gotten better has it... a minimum of 44k deaths in hospitals could have been prevented, and up to almost 100k... and this was 14 years ago.

http://www.iom.edu/~/media/Files/Re...-Human/To Err is Human 1999 report brief.pdf

So 13k avoidable deaths over years.. yes the UK number was not in one year as far as I can see, but over a multiple year period if not decade..., is dwarfed by the 44k-100k (if not more) deaths per YEAR that happens in the US.

So again you fail..
 

Fisher

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Lets see...First off such studies rarely are conducted in the US and since it is a massive private industry then there is next to no cooperation between hospitals and sharing of statistics. Look how long it took for the government to post costs of procedures in a freaking spreadsheet.

Now according to one of the few studies out there.. which is 14 years old yes.. but the US healthcare system has hardly gotten better has it... a minimum of 44k deaths in hospitals could have been prevented, and up to almost 100k... and this was 14 years ago.

http://www.iom.edu/~/media/Files/Re...-Human/To Err is Human 1999 report brief.pdf

So 13k avoidable deaths over years.. yes the UK number was not in one year as far as I can see, but over a multiple year period if not decade..., is dwarfed by the 44k-100k (if not more) deaths per YEAR that happens in the US.

So again you fail..
I don't fail. I live a little less than an hour by ground from one of the best hospitals in the world that has a heliport two miles from my house next to a hospital that might be able to keep me alive long enough for one of the whirly birds to get here and back. :2wave:
 

Fisher

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They're not actual when they're extrapolated from the data by bean-counters, then misrepresented by politicians.

As quoted in the OP, "Sir Bruce was angered by the claims" because they were bollocks.
So the data of people who died contains people who did not actually die. Nice to know UK gets all Shakespearean with their statistics.
 

PeteEU

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Yeah, not surprising. According to the WHO, quality of healthcare centers around social issues and cheap or "free" accessibility, and not actual outcomes of care.
Not true. They are part of the over all picture, but health outcomes are very much part of the picture.
 

Manc Skipper

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I don't fail. I live a little less than an hour by ground from one of the best hospitals in the world that has a heliport two miles from my house next to a hospital that might be able to keep me alive long enough for one of the whirly birds to get here and back. :2wave:
The hospital's heliport is an hour away from it?
 

Manc Skipper

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So the data of people who died contains people who did not actually die. Nice to know UK gets all Shakespearean with their statistics.
From YOUR link.

[The Health Secretary] "...also claimed that the mortality rates at the 14 hospitals concerned suggested that since 2005 “thousands more people may have died than would normally be expected”.

But Sir Bruce rejected this, warning that any attempt to use statistical measures to “quantify actual numbers of avoidable deaths” was “clinically meaningless and academically reckless”.... "
 

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Low nursing staff levels to blame for high hospital death rates, reveals report into NHS care - Health News - Health & Families - The Independent

Hospitals at the centre of a major review into the safety of NHS care all had “inadequate” nursing staff levels, according to early leaks from Sir Bruce Keogh’s report.

.....
A leaked email has shown that NHS England’s medical director Sir Bruce was angered by reports that claimed that the 14 hospitals covered by his review had been responsible for 13,000 avoidable deaths.....


But according to the World Health Organization British healthcare is so much more peachy than it is in the US.......:shock:
It is. We have about 45,000 people who die every year due to not being able to get any treatment at all, let alone how many die due to substandard care. Also, don't forget the highest infant mortality rate in the developed world.

But short-staffing is a worldwide problem right now as medicine becomes more of a business than a practice in trying to help people.
 

Fisher

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The hospital's heliport is an hour away from it?
No, My hospital has a heliport for helicopters from the real deal hospital to pick up because there is so much traffic between them. The hospital I would be landing at if necessary has its helipad on the roof of the hospital. I understand that they are capable of receiving multiple helicopters at once but I have never seen more than 1 come in at a time when I was there visiting others. I am not sure the flight time but it can't be much if they are an hour apart by ground. The only people I know who have taken the flight were not in shape to know how long it took but I seem to recall hearing somewhere about 20-25 minutes
 

Infinite Chaos

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-- But according to the World Health Organization British healthcare is so much more peachy than it is in the US.......:shock:
Like so many threads on the Europe forum, a small number is used to generalise about the rest of the picture.

There are 168 hospital trusts and the report is about the 14 worst hospitals. Some trusts manage or account for a number of hospitals and care centres.

Like other posters have commented - we're not pretending the picture is as good in other countries which have national healthcare but it's better than the alternative.
 

Fisher

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It is. We have about 45,000 people who die every year due to not being able to get any treatment at all, let alone how many die due to substandard care. Also, don't forget the highest infant mortality rate in the developed world.

But short-staffing is a worldwide problem right now as medicine becomes more of a business than a practice in trying to help people.
Sorry but those who die outside a hospital have no bearing on the quality of care given by hospitals to their patients who are admitted in my opinion.
 

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Sorry but those who die outside a hospital have no bearing on the quality of care given by hospitals to their patients who are admitted in my opinion.
Having no access to health care is no indication of the quality of health care?

Whatever it takes to support your talking points, I guess...

What about the fact that more infants die here than anywhere else in the developed world?
 

Fisher

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Having no access to health care is no indication of the quality of health care?

Whatever it takes to support your talking points, I guess...

What about the fact that more infants die here than anywhere else in the developed world?
Well, having no access to food doesn't matter when judging how good food tastes to those who do.

As for healthcare, I am correct. If you want everybody to have access to witch doctors, blood-letters, and the like over letting those who have access actually getting what they are being charged for then feel free. Move to the UK if you are not there and wait a year and a half to get your wisdom teeth out for free if you so desire. I personally don't mind paying to be able to see a dentist the same day if its an emergency and don't feel a bit guilty about it.
 

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Well, having no access to food doesn't matter when judging how good food tastes to those who do.

As for healthcare, I am correct. If you want everybody to have access to witch doctors, blood-letters, and the like over letting those who have access actually getting what they are being charged for then feel free. Move to the UK if you are not there and wait a year and a half to get your wisdom teeth out for free if you so desire. I personally don't mind paying to be able to see a dentist the same day if its an emergency and don't feel a bit guilty about it.
or you could also pay to have your wisdom teeth removed in the UK.
 

Spriggs05

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or you could also pay to have your wisdom teeth removed in the UK.
In general I go privately, mainly since I don't get pretty ill very often and don't break any limbs, ideally I would Always go private since I feel the quality is better, however I would use the NHS if I had to. Its an ideal service, however it is run shoddily and is very bureaucratic.
 

Higgins86

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In general I go privately, mainly since I don't get pretty ill very often and don't break any limbs, ideally I would Always go private since I feel the quality is better, however I would use the NHS if I had to. Its an ideal service, however it is run shoddily and is very bureaucratic.
Exactly the NHS has a large number of problem but it is their if you need it and millions of people use it every year without an issue.
 
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