Britain is a 'post-Christian' country

[The German]

Britain is now a "post-Christian" country, former Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams has said.

Speaking to the Sunday Telegraph, Lord Williams said Britain was not a nation of believers and that the era of widespread worship was over.

BBC News - Britain is a 'post-Christian' country says former Archbishop

I disagree with him.

I simply think that my generation of Europeans is not interested in spending each sunday in a damp, cold and unpleasant medieval building at 8 am, when we could be waking up in someone elses bed at 1 pm with a hangover.

People I believe turn away from organised religion and from unpleasant people who try to force rules on your life. But I do think that people in their 50-70s return to the churches to seek comfort in what they have to offer (at least my mother did).

Also I think that the modern European who is aware of the 500 year history of protestants and catholics slaughtering each other will see religion as something not worth being mouthy about.

 

[tecoyah]

Thus.....Buddy Christ was created:

 

[Spriggs05]

BBC News - Britain is a 'post-Christian' country says former Archbishop

I disagree with him.

I simply think that my generation of Europeans is not interested in spending each sunday in a damp, cold and unpleasant medieval building at 8 am, when we could be waking up in someone elses bed at 1 pm with a hangover.

People I believe turn away from organised religion and from unpleasant people who try to force rules on your life. But I do think that people in their 50-70s return to the churches to seek comfort in what they have to offer (at least my mother did).

Also I think that the modern European who is aware of the 500 year history of protestants and catholics slaughtering each other will see religion as something not worth being mouthy about.

Exactly, most people I know are not religious but believe in a god/existence of some deity just not the Christian, Muslim or hindu god(s) for example. I think partly because they want to have some sort of personal reassurance, but also because religion is "mainstream" :roll:

 

[Summerwind]

Thus.....Buddy Christ was created:

View attachment 67165481

Hands down one of the best movies ever!

 

[Crovax]

I disagree with him.

I simply think that my generation of Europeans is not interested in spending each sunday in a damp, cold and unpleasant medieval building at 8 am, when we could be waking up in someone elses bed at 1 pm with a hangover.

You claimed you disagree but then said everyone would rather sin than go to church. That is not shunning of organized religion that is shunning of Christianity

 

[The German]

You claimed you disagree but then said everyone would rather sin than go to church. That is not shunning of organized religion that is shunning of Christianity

"Sin"

I am amazed to find another person who uses this word!

Which century are you from? 19th? 16th? 12th?

Or are you just an Arab?

 

[Arcana XV]

He's not wrong. Not just for the UK, but for most of Europe. People are turning away from organized religion in droves. That doesn't mean that they're turning away from the spriritual, though. Many people are making up their own brand of spirituality by mix and matching different belief systems. It's quite fascinating to watch, from an atheist perspective.

 

[Demon of Light]

People are rapidly moving away from the spiritual as well in Europe. The number of people who identify as Christian in the UK and other countries is rather high, but the number gets much lower when you consider those who believe in a God. At current trends it is probably only a matter of a decade or two before Western and Northern Europe are predominantly irreligious and non-spiritual. By then the most prominent religious community in some of those countries will be Muslims.

 

[Grant]

BBC News - Britain is a 'post-Christian' country says former Archbishop

I disagree with him.

I simply think that my generation of Europeans is not interested in spending each sunday in a damp, cold and unpleasant medieval building at 8 am, when we could be waking up in someone elses bed at 1 pm with a hangover.

People I believe turn away from organised religion and from unpleasant people who try to force rules on your life. But I do think that people in their 50-70s return to the churches to seek comfort in what they have to offer (at least my mother did).

Also I think that the modern European who is aware of the 500 year history of protestants and catholics slaughtering each other will see religion as something not worth being mouthy about.

Every post so far suggests that Europe, as well as Britain, is 'post-Christian'. There is only one strong religion now and it is taking over many of the formerly Christian churches and turning them into Mosques.

And any German should know that the killings of millions of people during the last century was not the fault of Christianity but the lack of it.

 

[Grant]

People are rapidly moving away from the spiritual as well in Europe. The number of people who identify as Christian in the UK and other countries is rather high, but the number gets much lower when you consider those who believe in a God. At current trends it is probably only a matter of a decade or two before Western and Northern Europe are predominantly irreligious and non-spiritual. By then the most prominent religious community in some of those countries will be Muslims.

It's a lot easier to call yourself 'spiritual' than having to actually commit to anything, and it has the feel-good luxury of meaning anything you want it to mean.

The Problem With Being 'Spiritual but Not Religious' | TIME.com

 

[Rainman05]

It's not a bad idea to move away from religion as an organized thing. But this doesn't mean replacing one religion with another. The latest "fad" in younger people like me is to get away from Christianity but to embrace some BS like hinduism or buddhism. For such people it's just a case of being more hipster and it's pathetic.

Religion should be treated differently. it shouldn't be treated like a govt institution and it shouldn't be treated like a company either. But we need to start moving away from granting religious authority any sort of power. It's not because of BS reasons like "oh, science and religion can't live together" like the discussion is framed from the liberal side in the USA and to some extend, it's starting to spill over in Europe... and it's also wrong to say "every religion is the same and equal and all deserve respect" as the discussion is framed very strongly in Europe. It's wrong. And it's stupid. Religion and religious institutions need to be moved away from having any sort of public power or input of any kind. And this means that the believers and religious people should keep their religion to themselves and not make a fuss out of it. Nobody is taking away YOUR religion. You can be a Christian even if all the Churches in the world are closed. You can teach your children to be good people and lets face it... better Christians than they'd be if you exposed them to the full breath of insanity that is the old testament.

And that goes for all religions. A religion that encourages its constituency to be active religiously and shape public disourse and public life doesn't belong in XXIth century Europe. It belongs in XIth century Europe.

 

[Ben K.]

People are rapidly moving away from the spiritual as well in Europe. The number of people who identify as Christian in the UK and other countries is rather high, but the number gets much lower when you consider those who believe in a God. At current trends it is probably only a matter of a decade or two before Western and Northern Europe are predominantly irreligious and non-spiritual. By then the most prominent religious community in some of those countries will be Muslims.

Wait, how does that mean people are becoming non-spiritual rapidly?

You don't have to be in a religion, or even believe in God, to be spiritual. Are there stats indicating this?

 

[Higgins86]

I go to church every weekend to watch the football. Sometimes at Goodison Park and sometimes in the pub.

 

[PeteEU]

BBC News - Britain is a 'post-Christian' country says former Archbishop

I disagree with him.

I simply think that my generation of Europeans is not interested in spending each sunday in a damp, cold and unpleasant medieval building at 8 am, when we could be waking up in someone elses bed at 1 pm with a hangover.

People I believe turn away from organised religion and from unpleasant people who try to force rules on your life. But I do think that people in their 50-70s return to the churches to seek comfort in what they have to offer (at least my mother did).

Also I think that the modern European who is aware of the 500 year history of protestants and catholics slaughtering each other will see religion as something not worth being mouthy about.

I agree,.. people have become educated and can see the hypocrisy of the organised Church. Now we still get married in Churches, still get baptised, still hold Christmas and Easter and other religious holidays, but just because we dont go to church every Sunday or every day for some religious freaks... then that does not mean we are not religious/Christian. Some churches in some countries have realized that people are not dumb so they have adapted. Gay marriage is a good example, and divorce is another. The only ones giving religion a bad name and pushing people away are the religious nutjobs who try to push their version of religion on the rest of us.

 

[Andalublue]

I disagree with him.

Or so you say but then add...

I simply think that my generation of Europeans is not interested in spending each sunday in a damp, cold and unpleasant medieval building at 8 am, when we could be waking up in someone elses bed at 1 pm with a hangover.

People I believe turn away from organised religion and from unpleasant people who try to force rules on your life. But I do think that people in their 50-70s return to the churches to seek comfort in what they have to offer (at least my mother did).

Also I think that the modern European who is aware of the 500 year history of protestants and catholics slaughtering each other will see religion as something not worth being mouthy about.

In which you don't seem to disagree with him at all. What did he say exactly that you disagree with? You make 3 points: 1) that younger Europeans aren't interested in spending time in cuhurch, 2) People have turned away from unpleasant dictatorial religions, and 3) people are rejecting a history of religiously-inspired violence. Those three together suggest to me quite precisely that we are a 'post-Christian' society.

 

[Andalublue]

Or are you just an Arab?

Was the hint of racism in that statement intentional? If it was intended to be ironic, it failed.

 

[Arcana XV]

"Sin"

I am amazed to find another person who uses this word!

Which century are you from? 19th? 16th? 12th?

Or are you just an Arab?

The word "sin" has not disappeared from the English language, nor from the Christian Bible in the 21st century. And what does being an Arab have to do with anything this poster said? Me thinks you haven't quite sobered up from your last drunken stupor. Drink some coffee and get back to us, yeah?

 

[Demon of Light]

Religion should be treated differently. it shouldn't be treated like a govt institution and it shouldn't be treated like a company either. But we need to start moving away from granting religious authority any sort of power. It's not because of BS reasons like "oh, science and religion can't live together" like the discussion is framed from the liberal side in the USA and to some extend, it's starting to spill over in Europe... and it's also wrong to say "every religion is the same and equal and all deserve respect" as the discussion is framed very strongly in Europe. It's wrong. And it's stupid. Religion and religious institutions need to be moved away from having any sort of public power or input of any kind. And this means that the believers and religious people should keep their religion to themselves and not make a fuss out of it. Nobody is taking away YOUR religion. You can be a Christian even if all the Churches in the world are closed. You can teach your children to be good people and lets face it... better Christians than they'd be if you exposed them to the full breath of insanity that is the old testament.

And that goes for all religions. A religion that encourages its constituency to be active religiously and shape public disourse and public life doesn't belong in XXIth century Europe. It belongs in XIth century Europe.

Unfortunately, this kind of sentiment is becoming disturbingly common. The promotion of religion as something to be kept private is clearly not aimed at protecting people of faith from mistreatment and discrimination. I understand it is a reaction to the noxious way that religious ideology has occasionally shaped cultures and governments, but people need to recognize the problem has nothing to do with religion itself. Europe's experience with the bloody history of irreligion is just as significant as its bloody history with religion. Any ideology, spiritual or empirical, can served as the basis for bloody repression. Suggesting people should keep their religion to themselves is merely a more subtle form of religious repression.

Wait, how does that mean people are becoming non-spiritual rapidly?

You don't have to be in a religion, or even believe in God, to be spiritual. Are there stats indicating this?

See page 9 of this report and page 206 of this one.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

-- It's quite fascinating to watch, from an atheist perspective.

It could be an inner need or drive to have something to believe in, a fear of one's own mortality, maybe even a disbelief that our species could achieve all hit has without external help but yeah; fascinating.

Personally I feel we should critique all religions more rigorously here, they have no place in any of our school systems and the problems caused in society are still very much with us.

 

[Grant]

It could be an inner need or drive to have something to believe in, a fear of one's own mortality, maybe even a disbelief that our species could achieve all hit has without external help but yeah; fascinating.

Personally I feel we should critique all religions more rigorously here, they have no place in any of our school systems and the problems caused in society are still very much with us.

We can critique all beliefs, not just religious, but then where does that leave a common culture? Despite its occasionally checkered past Christianity has proven to be a truly great religion with the truly revolutionary idea that the poor were also loved by God, that they had a soul. That idea still reverberates around the world.

How can we teach children in school to be better people? Why should they love their neighbors, or do unto others? Why should they help the poor when there is a government to do it? Who can we use as an example of goodness? Celebrities? Political leaders?

Certainly we can eliminate organized Christianity but what will replace it? Not all religions will roll over as easily as Christianity. Also, all cultures need a set of beliefs to understand who they are, what they stand for and what their expected conduct should be. These beliefs can be good or, as we have seen so often, evil. 'Sinful' in fact which, like 'evil', has now become a quaint part of our common vocabulary..

 

[Ben K.]

See page 9 of this report and page 206 of this one.

The first ref is a survey on the meaning of life. There is no change in time described, nor is there a comparison to a non-euro country (maybe Turkey, which falls in the spectrum.). It's only tangentially related to spiritual belief to question the meaning of life.

The second ref says there's been little change over the time period studied in religious and spiritual beliefs. In fact there has been a slight increase in religious and spiritual belief. So how is this moving "rapidly"?

 

[Andalublue]

Unfortunately, this kind of sentiment is becoming disturbingly common. The promotion of religion as something to be kept private is clearly not aimed at protecting people of faith from mistreatment and discrimination. I understand it is a reaction to the noxious way that religious ideology has occasionally shaped cultures and governments, but people need to recognize the problem has nothing to do with religion itself. Europe's experience with the bloody history of irreligion is just as significant as its bloody history with religion. Any ideology, spiritual or empirical, can served as the basis for bloody repression. Suggesting people should keep their religion to themselves is merely a more subtle form of religious repression.



See page 9 of this report and page 206 of this one.

Given the question posed in the OP, as to whether Britain (not Europe, not 'The West', but Britain) is becoming a post-Christian country, we only need to look at your linked surveys to see that only 38% of Britons believe there is a god. Believing in 'some sort of spirit or life force' pretty much precludes you from being a Christian. So, Christianity specifically, and deism generally is a minority position, whereas it was once almost universally accepted.

/thread, no?

 

[Ben K.]

The first ref is a survey on the meaning of life. There is no change in time described, nor is there a comparison to a non-euro country (maybe Turkey, which falls in the spectrum.). It's only tangentially related to spiritual belief to question the meaning of life.

The second ref says there's been little change over the time period studied in religious and spiritual beliefs. In fact there has been a slight increase in religious and spiritual belief. So how is this moving "rapidly"?

Read wrong page 9 above. Still no comparisons in time and space that support your opinion.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

Every post so far suggests that Europe, as well as Britain, is 'post-Christian'. There is only one strong religion now and it is taking over many of the formerly Christian churches and turning them into Mosques.

And any German should know that the killings of millions of people during the last century was not the fault of Christianity but the lack of it.

If you're going to be making posts like this you should be reading less of the bible and more of history.

Hitler was a devout Catholic and the majority of the Nazi regime was Catholic. The Pope even directly supported the Reich. Please educate yourself.

 

[PeteEU]

If you're going to be making posts like this you should be reading less of the bible and more of history.

Hitler was a devout Catholic and the majority of the Nazi regime was Catholic. The Pope even directly supported the Reich. Please educate yourself.

He is just baiting you by pushing the "Nazi were socialists" button and not Christian at all.