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Brian Holloway, former NFL star, may be sued by parents of teens who trashed his home

Re: Brian Holloway, former NFL star, may be sued by parents of teens who trashed ...

ecofarm said:
Wouldn't tit-for-tat be him destroying your house?
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Just had to bring sex into it didn't you?
 
Re: Brian Holloway, former NFL star, may be sued by parents of teens who trashed ...

Risky Thicket said:
Just had to bring sex into it didn't you?
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Canadians are rubbing off on me.
 
Re: Brian Holloway, former NFL star, may be sued by parents of teens who trashed his

I heard about this today. How ****ty of a parent can you be.

The easy solution is for him to just say "That's fine, if you want to get the law involved, then we'll get the law involved" and press charges on every kid who was there.
 
Re: Brian Holloway, former NFL star, may be sued by parents of teens who trashed ...

soot said:
That said, if any adult posts dispariaging pictures on my child on the Internet, regardless of the reason, I'd immediately pursue any and all legal remedies that were available to me.
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Sorry, but if your kid's dumb enough to post publicly-available pictures of themselves committing a crime online, then I'm pretty sure you don't have any legal remedies if I post the pictures somewhere else and call your kid a criminal.
 
Re: Brian Holloway, former NFL star, may be sued by parents of teens who trashed ...

molten_dragon said:
Sorry, but if your kid's dumb enough to post publicly-available pictures of themselves committing a crime online, then I'm pretty sure you don't have any legal remedies if I post the pictures somewhere else and call your kid a criminal.
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:thumbs:

Yes, this. The parents are hoping the thread of a lawsuit will be a bargaining chip for him to drop any actions against them or their kids.
 
Re: Brian Holloway, former NFL star, may be sued by parents of teens who trashed ...

DiAnna said:
:thumbs:

Yes, this. The parents are hoping the thread of a lawsuit will be a bargaining chip for him to drop any actions against them or their kids.
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Which is even dumber, because he already wasn't pressing charges. I hope he does now.
 
Re: Brian Holloway, former NFL star, may be sued by parents of teens who trashed ...

DiAnna said:
:thumbs:

Yes, this. The parents are hoping the thread of a lawsuit will be a bargaining chip for him to drop any actions against them or their kids.
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I don't think these parents realize that the more the public knows about them and their values and standards, the less pleasant the attention will be. I mean, the people who are their neighbors and who work with them will know who they really are.

If they already don't. Have to wonder what kind of Little League parents they were, if you know what I mean.
 
Re: Brian Holloway, former NFL star, may be sued by parents of teens who trashed ...

americanwoman said:
It was my understanding he reposted pictures they themselves already had posted of them partying and destroying his property.
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lol, so these weren't even items he made public?
 
Re: Brian Holloway, former NFL star, may be sued by parents of teens who trashed ...

No, the idiot kids made them public. Posted them on facebook and twitter.
 
Re: Brian Holloway, former NFL star, may be sued by parents of teens who trashed ...

I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

But this does give me a brilliant idea for how to handle criminal vandalism cases, and possibly other cases involving property damage or forced reparations. In addition to the actual reparations, the offender must also work community service, at minimum wage, to repay some fixed percentage of the damages as well-- in as appropriate a venue of community service as can be determined by the judge. If the offender cannot afford to make the original reparations, they can also "pay back" the State for those monies in this fashion.
 
Re: Brian Holloway, former NFL star, may be sued by parents of teens who trashed ...

soot said:
That said, if any adult posts dispariaging pictures on my child on the Internet, regardless of the reason, I'd immediately pursue any and all legal remedies that were available to me.
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Especially if he is rich, or presumed to be rich.
Every one of those kids should be sent to juvi and every parent should share in the cost of the damage. Period.
Oh, and those little angels made their pics public before he did.
I say more power to him. Been my home, I would have been on the war path.
 
Re: Brian Holloway, former NFL star, may be sued by parents of teens who trashed ...

Superfly said:
No, the idiot kids made them public. Posted them on facebook and twitter.
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Exactly. I would feel differently if HE had been the one to out the minors identities, but since THEY had already outed themselves, I don't see that he did anything wrong. I really feel sorry for him. Those little bastards.
 
Re: Brian Holloway, former NFL star, may be sued by parents of teens who trashed ...

Korimyr the Rat said:
I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

But this does give me a brilliant idea for how to handle criminal vandalism cases, and possibly other cases involving property damage or forced reparations. In addition to the actual reparations, the offender must also work community service, at minimum wage, to repay some fixed percentage of the damages as well-- in as appropriate a venue of community service as can be determined by the judge. If the offender cannot afford to make the original reparations, they can also "pay back" the State for those monies in this fashion.
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I think in the case of minors, the parents are the ones who end up paying restitution, so it should be the parents that make sure their child pays them back, whether that be in cash or doing extra work.
 
Re: Brian Holloway, former NFL star, may be sued by parents of teens who trashed ...

Superfly said:
No, the idiot kids made them public. Posted them on facebook and twitter.
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Your argument here, essentially, is that anything that is available to the public is, by virtue of it's availability, the de facto property of the public, to be used in any manner the public wishes.

It would be cool if this were actually the case.

Fortunately, for the creators of intellectual property, copyright law doesn't quite work that way.

"The public" has no more right to use images that I post to social media than it does over the most recently released Hollywood blockbuster or the latest Pulitzer Prize winning novel.

If I create a photograph it's mine to use as I wish.

I can destroy it, sell it to National Geographic, post it to Facebook, or do whatever else I want with it.

You (as a member of "the public"), under law, do not have any right to take and use my photograph without my express consent regardless of whether you find it in an issue of National Geographic or in a Twitter feed.
 
Re: Brian Holloway, former NFL star, may be sued by parents of teens who trashed ...

soot said:
Your argument here, essentially, is that anything that is available to the public is, by virtue of it's availability, the de facto property of the public, to be used in any manner the public wishes.

It would be cool if this were actually the case.

Fortunately, for the creators of intellectual property, copyright law doesn't quite work that way.

"The public" has no more right to use images that I post to social media than it does over the most recently released Hollywood blockbuster or the latest Pulitzer Prize winning novel.

If I create a photograph it's mine to use as I wish.

I can destroy it, sell it to National Geographic, post it to Facebook, or do whatever else I want with it.

You (as a member of "the public"), under law, do not have any right to take and use my photograph without my express consent regardless of whether you find it in an issue of National Geographic or in a Twitter feed.
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You are talking to the wife of a photographer. I know all about copyright law and intellectual property. I understand that the photograph is owned by the photographer, regardless of the content of the photograph.

The kids own the pictures. Yes. Holloway should not have taken them. Yes. But which is the greater evil?

The house was in upstate NY, so the Judge hopefully will throw the book at the kids. If this happened in Florida, the Judge would have forced Holloway to make the repairs out of his own pocket, then forced him to give the house to the kids. /sarcasm
 
Re: Brian Holloway, former NFL star, may be sued by parents of teens who trashed ...

soot said:
Your argument here, essentially, is that anything that is available to the public is, by virtue of it's availability, the de facto property of the public, to be used in any manner the public wishes.

It would be cool if this were actually the case.

Fortunately, for the creators of intellectual property, copyright law doesn't quite work that way.

"The public" has no more right to use images that I post to social media than it does over the most recently released Hollywood blockbuster or the latest Pulitzer Prize winning novel.

If I create a photograph it's mine to use as I wish.

I can destroy it, sell it to National Geographic, post it to Facebook, or do whatever else I want with it.

You (as a member of "the public"), under law, do not have any right to take and use my photograph without my express consent regardless of whether you find it in an issue of National Geographic or in a Twitter feed.
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What you're arguing for is that Holloway be sued for copyright infringement. It is technically correct that the photos are not his. They might get some token award, if any, because his actions were not profit motivated.

The parents are suing for damaging their kid's reputations, etc., which is a whole other issue. That cat is already out of the bag, and the kids did it to themselves.
 
Re: Brian Holloway, former NFL star, may be sued by parents of teens who trashed ...

Superfly said:
The kids own the pictures. Yes. Holloway should not have taken them. Yes. But which is the greater evil?
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Just to be clear, you're asking me which is the greater evil:

a.) teenage kids acting like teenage kids

or....

b.) a grown man stealing copyrighted material and then using that material to harass children in some absurd attempt at vigilante justice

I know this isn't the answer you were fishing for but in my mind what Holloway did was the greater evil.

Being victimized by children doesn't give Holloway (or any adult) license to retaliate like a child.
 
Re: Brian Holloway, former NFL star, may be sued by parents of teens who trashed ...

soot said:
If it were my kid, I would have marched his little ass over there and he would have been on his hands and knees scraping paint until the job was done, and that would be the least of his worries.

That said, if any adult posts dispariaging pictures on my child on the Internet, regardless of the reason, I'd immediately pursue any and all legal remedies that were available to me.

I do not provide my kid's school and soccer team with blanket permission to post his image actually doing good stuff, I'll be damned if someone is going to post pictures of him being a delinquient.

I'm his parent, not former NFL star Brian Holloway.

I'm responsible for his upbrining and for his punishment when and if I feel it's deserved or called for.

I don't need or want Brian Holloway's "help".

If a grown man feels he needs to go tit-for-tat with children he deserves whatever trouble comes his way.
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CPS would probably come in and relieved you of your parental role. That's how things work these days.
 
Re: Brian Holloway, former NFL star, may be sued by parents of teens who trashed ...

soot said:
Just to be clear, you're asking me which is the greater evil:

a.) teenage kids acting like teenage kids

or....

b.) a grown man stealing copyrighted material and then using that material to harass children in some absurd attempt at vigilante justice

I know this isn't the answer you were fishing for but in my mind what Holloway did was the greater evil.

Being victimized by children doesn't give Holloway (or any adult) license to retaliate like a child.
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Harass? I'd say shame... and, really, part of our societal issues these days comes from a lack of shame.

But, hey, they're just teens acting like teens. Vandalism and destruction of other people's property is just a kid thing. No problem, right?
 
Re: Brian Holloway, former NFL star, may be sued by parents of teens who trashed ...

radcen said:
What you're arguing for is that Holloway be sued for copyright infringement. It is technically correct that the photos are not his. They might get some token award, if any, because his actions were not profit motivated.

The parents are suing for damaging their kid's reputations, etc., which is a whole other issue. That cat is already out of the bag, and the kids did it to themselves.
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Holloway stole copyrighted images and then used (is still using) that stolen material in conjunction with his celebrity status to harass and vilify children on the national stage.

If you look through the images on his website there is no (or at least very little) evidence of the kids in the pictures are actually vandalizing anything.

The overwelming majority of the pictures just show kids partying and having a good time in a perfectly normal (non-vandalizing-****) fashion.

Now, it's clear from the pictures that the house has been vandalized, but there's nothing tying the kids in the images Holloway posted to the vandalisim (no "caught in the act" images).

Now this surfaces:

Ex-Patriots Star Brian Holloway -- Neighbors Call B.S. On House-Trashing | TMZ.com

Apparently Holloway's neighbors are coming out and saying that Holloway hasn't lived in or visited that house in years. Everyone in the neighborhood thought the property was abandoned. The house has been used repeatedly for partying and God only knows what else.

Now, of course the house being abandoned and in forclosure doesn't make it "right" for kids to either party in the place or destroy/vandalize it but it puts an entirely different slant on the story.

It wasn't like Holloway was living in the house, went down to Florida to visit family for a couple days, and found the house wrecked upon his return, which is sorta the feeling the initial story leaves you with.
 
Re: Brian Holloway, former NFL star, may be sued by parents of teens who trashed ...

soot said:
Just to be clear, you're asking me which is the greater evil:

a.) teenage kids acting like teenage kids

or....

b.) a grown man stealing copyrighted material and then using that material to harass children in some absurd attempt at vigilante justice

I know this isn't the answer you were fishing for but in my mind what Holloway did was the greater evil.

Being victimized by children doesn't give Holloway (or any adult) license to retaliate like a child.
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Are you serious? :lol: Or are you just trolling? Teenage kids acting like teenage kids?!? :lol: What parallel universe do you live in, where normal kids do $20,000 damage to somebody's house that isn't their own, and that is OK? And how is that better than lifting a picture off of the internet that has already been posted? I understand intellectual property. I do. My husband rails on it all the time. However, the greater evil, in most everyone's opinion, is not only what was done to this man's home while he was away, but the road that the parents of the children are taking.

Shameless.
 
Re: Brian Holloway, former NFL star, may be sued by parents of teens who trashed ...

Superfly said:
What parallel universe do you live in, where normal kids do $20,000 damage to somebody's house that isn't their own, and that is OK?
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I live in one of those crazy universes where people are innocent until proven guilty of crimes they're alleged to have commited.

As far as I can tell from the pictures and social media messages that Mr. Holloway has posted on his website, all those kids are guilty of is throwing a party in an apparently abandoned house and having a good time.

There are no photos of kids destroying furniture, smashing windows, urinating on the carpet, spray painting the walls, stealing things, or any of the other, more serious, crimes Mr. Holloway alledges these kids commited. There are no confessions to such crimes in the social media text messages he's posted.

There is no doubt that someone trashed his house.

There is no doubt that a group of kids used his house as a location for their party.

There doesn't appear to be any evidence tying the kids who were partying in the house to the apparent destruction Mr. Holloway claims they commited.

And how is that better than lifting a picture off of the internet that has already been posted?
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I didn't say that destroying stuff and causing $20,000 worth of damage was worse than cribbing a couple photos off the Internet.

I said that it is worse for a grown man to steal pictures of kids off the Internet and then use those pictures in conjunction with his celebrity status to wage a nation-widde publicity campaign making largely baseless allegations that the kids in the photos caused damage to his house absent any real, hard evidence that the kids he's accusing are guilty.

Getting back to the first thing I said in this thread, if Mr. Holloway did that to my kids I would sue the **** out of him. I would push for criminal charges against Mr. Holloway to the extent that his behavior might be criminal.

I wouldn't stand by and allow an adult to harass my children and drag their names (and faces) through the mud absent any real evidence that they'd commited a crime.
 
Re: Brian Holloway, former NFL star, may be sued by parents of teens who trashed ...

Superfly said:
You are talking to the wife of a photographer. I know all about copyright law and intellectual property. I understand that the photograph is owned by the photographer, regardless of the content of the photograph.

The kids own the pictures. Yes. Holloway should not have taken them. Yes. But which is the greater evil?

The house was in upstate NY, so the Judge hopefully will throw the book at the kids. If this happened in Florida, the Judge would have forced Holloway to make the repairs out of his own pocket, then forced him to give the house to the kids. /sarcasm
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No part of Florida I have ever been in, and I been all over this beautiful state.
 
Re: Brian Holloway, former NFL star, may be sued by parents of teens who trashed ...

soot said:
The public availability of a work does not make it public (domain) property.

A good rule of thumb when dealing with art (including photos), music, literature, and other intellectual property is to just assume that if you neither created it nor received permission from the creator to use it you don't have any right to it.
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The parents are simply asserting their legal rights.

If that antagonizes the guy that's just too ****ing bad.
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It's just too ****ing bad for who though?

Despite your typical self-righteous attitude, Holloway was being pretty generous in using social media to identify the party goers in an attempt to get them to own up to their bad behavior and pay for the damages without going through the courts. That has gone out the window though as party goers are being charged and some are being charged with some relatively serious offenses. I'm not sure how much of a legal leg their parents actually had to stand on but I suspect "your honor, Mr. Holloway has no right to present these photos as evidence" isn't going to fly now that this is going to court and half the kids are about to rat out their friends anyway in a crying fit of avoiding punishment.

I don't know if anyone will actually serve time, although I suppose it's a possibility for the 6 organizers, but they're going to end up paying far more in legal fees and damages then Holloway originally sought and end up with this on their record. Again, who exactly was it too ****ing bad for?

Record number of arrests to be made in break-in party at former NFL player's home

Arrests made in wild Stephentown house party
 
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