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Brexit Would Leave EU Less Liberal, Less Atlanticist - The New York Times

it's not about 'what' leaving the EU will 'do', it's about giving the people a say in their future. this is a disconnect within the EU; no one has ever had a vote on it in most of the nations which make it up. democratic deficit doesn't even begin to describe the situation.
 
QuadpolarNutjob said:
it's not about 'what' leaving the EU will 'do', it's about giving the people a say in their future. this is a disconnect within the EU; no one has ever had a vote on it in most of the nations which make it up. democratic deficit doesn't even begin to describe the situation.
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First of there has been a lot of referendums on joining and enlarging the EEC/EU by member nations.

Secondly, we do elect our governments to negotiate treaties with other countries, and historically referendums were never held on this. When the US made NATO, was there an US referendum since it took away sovereignty? of course not. Was there a referendum when NAFTA was made? Of course not. How about the UN? nope. So it is a bull**** argument to claim a democratic problem with the EU and there is none with other nations.

Take the US.. was there a referendum on forming of the US ? of course not. Hell only white male landowners were allowed to vote back then.

So why should there suddenly be a referendum on the formation of the EEC back in the 1950s when having a referendum in the "western democracies" was an alien concept. It is only in the last few decades that this demand on referendums suddenly has emerged.. But since the 1973 enlargement pretty much every country has held a referendum on joining... even the UK.

Also referendums are not always a good thing as people are too easily manipulated to go one or the other way and not vote on the issue it self. Take Switzerland. Here they managed to push through a ban on non existent minarets and to curb immigration. Who did this? well certainly not those who live in the major population areas.. but the out of touch rural people who think their country is being overrun because they heard of it from some white racist far right xenophobe on TV.

Had the slavery issue been put to a referendum back in the 1850s/60s.. they would have said yes to slavery in the US.

Or take my own country of Denmark, who famously said no Maastricht. Why did they say no? Because the anti-EU right/left (we have both in Denmark) had convinced the Danish population that German police would be able to cross the border and arrest Danes, plus that our Queen could not be on the coins anymore. Both were lies but the pro-EU camp had a damn hard time proving it, because people automatically are skeptical of new things so they of course believed the lying far right and left.
 
The EU must be the mostfragile instution in history.

When Greece could not pay it's way there was talk of the euro dying.

Now because one of it's members, the one with a very different culture and sense of history to the rest might leave there is talk of the whole thing coming to an end.

If it's that weak then I don't think it is worth saving.
 
If Great Britain leaves the EU that won't put any of the political parties in Europe out of business.
 
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