Brexit voting evidence ~ I was wrong.

[Infinite Chaos]

Seems it wasn't simply a question of those voters who were in impoverished under developed parts who would most likely vote Brexit - a greater prediction (and I should have known this from the relatives who I see on facebook) are those who are ardently pro death penalty & pro flogging paedophiles in public.

Immediately after the vote, commentators said it was about class - about professionals living and working in big cities, especially London (who voted Remain), versus working class people in smaller towns, especially in the north of England (who voted Leave).

~

the probability of voting Brexit rises from around 20% for those most opposed to the death penalty to 70% for those most in favour. Wealthy people who back capital punishment back Brexit. Poor folk who oppose the death penalty support Remain.

Really interesting article - people who want a form of order and stability as opposed to modernity and openness. Suggests if we ever had a referendum on bringing back the death penalty that it would be a close run thing.

BBC Brexit magazine article: The link between Brexit and the death penalty - BBC News

Brexit Briefing: http://www.bbk.ac.uk/sshp/politics/news/BirkbeckDepartmentofPoliticsBrexitBriefing.pdf

 

[Serenity]

Suggests if we ever had a referendum on bringing back the death penalty that it would be a close run thing.

How anyone can support bringing back the death penalty given the Timothy Evans case is beyond me. Do they not even know their own history? His case played a major part in the abolition of capital punishment in the UK.

Thank goodness they weren't asked if they would also like to go back to the grand old days when wrongdoers were whipped, put in the stocks or transported to distant countries for penal servitude. I shudder to think what their response would be.

 

[jamesrage]

Seems it wasn't simply a question of those voters who were in impoverished under developed parts who would most likely vote Brexit - a greater prediction (and I should have known this from the relatives who I see on facebook) are those who are ardently pro death penalty & pro flogging paedophiles in public.



Really interesting article - people who want a form of order and stability as opposed to modernity and openness. Suggests if we ever had a referendum on bringing back the death penalty that it would be a close run thing.

BBC Brexit magazine article: The link between Brexit and the death penalty - BBC News

Brexit Briefing: http://www.bbk.ac.uk/sshp/politics/news/BirkbeckDepartmentofPoliticsBrexitBriefing.pdf

So basically the article is claiming that if you are a scumbag sympathizer who goes boo hoo poor wittle scumbags shouldn't be put to death then you are a internationalist who doesn't value your country's sovereignty. But if you are not a scumbag sympathizer then you value your country's sovereignty. I am pretty sure there are some scumbag sympathizers who value their country's sovereignty and I am sure there are some people who are not scumbag sympathizers who don't value their country's sovereignty. It looks like internationalists scum are still trying to get a redo vote on the Brexit vote by making up bull ****.

 

[William Rea]

So basically the article is claiming that if you are a scumbag sympathizer who goes boo hoo poor wittle scumbags shouldn't be put to death then you are a internationalist who doesn't value your country's sovereignty. But if you are not a scumbag sympathizer then you value your country's sovereignty. I am pretty sure there are some scumbag sympathizers who value their country's sovereignty and I am sure there are some people who are not scumbag sympathizers who don't value their country's sovereignty. It looks like internationalists scum are still trying to get a redo vote on the Brexit vote by making up bull ****.

Did I read a different article? I didn't see any partisan hack absolutes in the one I read?

 

[LowDown]

Seems it wasn't simply a question of those voters who were in impoverished under developed parts who would most likely vote Brexit - a greater prediction (and I should have known this from the relatives who I see on facebook) are those who are ardently pro death penalty & pro flogging paedophiles in public.



Really interesting article - people who want a form of order and stability as opposed to modernity and openness. Suggests if we ever had a referendum on bringing back the death penalty that it would be a close run thing.

BBC Brexit magazine article: The link between Brexit and the death penalty - BBC News

Brexit Briefing: http://www.bbk.ac.uk/sshp/politics/news/BirkbeckDepartmentofPoliticsBrexitBriefing.pdf

This thesis seems like a great example of Brexit Derangement Syndrome. Could the Remainers get any more puffed up with arrogance, condescension, anger and contempt? Not without going completely insane, it seems, and they appear to be doing that at the moment.

The real distinction between leavers and remainers is those who don't expect to get unearned money and power from the EU and those who were expecting to.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

~ The real distinction between leavers and remainers is those who don't expect to get unearned money and power from the EU and those who were expecting to.

What money? The UK pays money in (until we leave) and we get our own money back largely.

So basically the article is claiming that if you are a scumbag sympathizer who goes boo hoo poor wittle scumbags shouldn't be put to death then you are a internationalist who doesn't value your country's sovereignty. But if you are not a scumbag sympathizer then you value your country's sovereignty. I am pretty sure there are some scumbag sympathizers who value their country's sovereignty and I am sure there are some people who are not scumbag sympathizers who don't value their country's sovereignty. It looks like internationalists scum are still trying to get a redo vote on the Brexit vote by making up bull ****.

It wold be great if you were a bit more familiar with the realities of what sovereignty was shared or pooled with the EU.

 

[Chagos]

Did I read a different article? I didn't see any partisan hack absolutes in the one I read?

No.

He did.

:lol:

 

[LowDown]

What money? The UK pays money in (until we leave) and we get our own money back largely.

The people paying are not the same people who get the money "back".

 

[PeteEU]

The people paying are not the same people who get the money "back".

Eh? what are you talking about?

 

[LowDown]

Eh? what are you talking about?

Am I mistake to believe that the EU takes money from the UK in taxes and then subsidies various projects in the UK, among other things?

 

[Infinite Chaos]

The people paying are not the same people who get the money "back".

EUROPA - How is the EU budget spent?

Press the UK to find out the inflow and outflow.

 

[PeteEU]

Am I mistake to believe that the EU takes money from the UK in taxes and then subsidies various projects in the UK, among other things?

Yes you are mistaken. The UK pays a fee based on their GDP minus a massive rebate, and that is put into the EU "pool of money" that is used to fund the EU, CAP, and many different projects across the EU, including the UK. For example, the UK universties receives 8 billion pounds of EU money for R&D. Half of Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland infrastructure was in part EU funded (okay not half, but large parts).

 

[jamesrage]

What money? The UK pays money in (until we leave) and we get our own money back largely.



It wold be great if you were a bit more familiar with the realities of what sovereignty was shared or pooled with the EU.

EU countries are not sovereign.

 

[SocialD]

How anyone can support bringing back the death penalty given the Timothy Evans case is beyond me. Do they not even know their own history? His case played a major part in the abolition of capital punishment in the UK.

Thank goodness they weren't asked if they would also like to go back to the grand old days when wrongdoers were whipped, put in the stocks or transported to distant countries for penal servitude. I shudder to think what their response would be.

Basing an opinion on capital punishment and modern day forensics and investigative processes on a case that is 66 years old? hardly rational

 

[PeteEU]

EU countries are not sovereign.

Yes they are... do they set the following?

Their own budget? yes.
Their own social laws? yes.
Their own tax laws? yes
Their own education laws? yes
Their own forigen policy? yes
Their own criminal law? yes
Do they control their own borders? yes
Do they control their own military? no, but that is not controlled by the EU.. thats NATO.

Now lets compare that to Scotland and a US state, who claim to be countries as well.

Their own budget? yes and no. They need outside funding and control, and are not fully in control of their own budgets.
Their own social laws? no.
Their own tax laws? no.
Their own education laws? no
Their own forigen policy? hell no
Their own criminal law? hell no
Do they control their own borders? HAHAHAH no.
Do they control their own military? no... well there is the national guard but pft.

So yes the EU nations are sovereign nations.

 

[joG]

Yes they are... do they set the following?

Their own budget? yes.
Their own social laws? yes.
Their own tax laws? yes
Their own education laws? yes
Their own forigen policy? yes
Their own criminal law? yes
Do they control their own borders? yes
Do they control their own military? no, but that is not controlled by the EU.. thats NATO.

Now lets compare that to Scotland and a US state, who claim to be countries as well.

Their own budget? yes and no. They need outside funding and control, and are not fully in control of their own budgets.
Their own social laws? no.
Their own tax laws? no.
Their own education laws? no
Their own forigen policy? hell no
Their own criminal law? hell no
Do they control their own borders? HAHAHAH no.
Do they control their own military? no... well there is the national guard but pft.

So yes the EU nations are sovereign nations.

That is rather a document of ignorance of the way socioeconomic politics work or a populist simplification for the ignorant of the kind that lost the Brexit discussion for the EU lobby. That is really sad. You haven't even understood, what the result of the referendum means or you thing that the populations of the continent are stupid enough to swallow that slippery trash anyway.

Just think about it. The EU backers were not able to explain the value of their main political and economic effort of 50 years. If you cannot justify that much spending and activity, it deserves to die.

 

[Andalublue]

Yes they are... do they set the following?

Their own budget? yes.
Their own social laws? yes.
Their own tax laws? yes
Their own education laws? yes
Their own forigen policy? yes
Their own criminal law? yes
Do they control their own borders? yes
Do they control their own military? no, but that is not controlled by the EU.. thats NATO.

Now lets compare that to Scotland and a US state, who claim to be countries as well.

Their own budget? yes and no. They need outside funding and control, and are not fully in control of their own budgets.
Their own social laws? no.
Their own tax laws? no.
Their own education laws? no
Their own forigen policy? hell no
Their own criminal law? hell no
Do they control their own borders? HAHAHAH no.
Do they control their own military? no... well there is the national guard but pft.

So yes the EU nations are sovereign nations.

Just FYI, Scotland does set its own education and criminal laws.

 

[LowDown]

Yes you are mistaken. The UK pays a fee based on their GDP minus a massive rebate, and that is put into the EU "pool of money" that is used to fund the EU, CAP, and many different projects across the EU, including the UK. For example, the UK universties receives 8 billion pounds of EU money for R&D. Half of Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland infrastructure was in part EU funded (okay not half, but large parts).

I'm wrong? But you just confirmed what I'd said. The UK pays into the EU, and then the EU pays for selected projects in the UK. Those projects is where you'll find white hot support for Remain. No surprise there.

God forbid that the UK should decide where the money, its own money, should go.

 

[LowDown]

Now lets compare that to Scotland and a US state, who claim to be countries as well.

What? No, US states don't claim to be countries. Maybe before the Civil War they did.

So yes the EU nations are sovereign nations.

Not if they don't control spending from their own revenues, or control their own money, which EU members do not entirely.

A king, I forget which one, but some European king (French, I think) said that if he controlled the courts and the coinage he'd leave the rest to the rabble. That's basically what the EU has done. Except that there's a whole ton of stuff that they don't leave to the rabble, regulating everything from bananas to toasters.

 

[LowDown]

EUROPA - How is the EU budget spent?

Press the UK to find out the inflow and outflow.

Yeah, I don't think you got my point. The UK is paying into the EU. It's a different group of people and organizations in the UK that is getting money from the EU, based on no merit beyond fulfilling certain political aims of the EU. You understand, I hope, how this might cause the latter group of people to be in favor of Remain?

 

[William Rea]

EUROPA - How is the EU budget spent?

Press the UK to find out the inflow and outflow.

It is unfortunate but inevitable that the EU has to act as a wealth redistribution agent like this but, in my opinion only, reducing inequality within member states is one way of ensuring conflicts don't happen. It is a price we pay for having stable nations around us and seriously for those laissez-faire economists, free trade did nothing to stop conflict in the preceding centuries, did it?

In the regions of the UK I believe that the EU has taken over a job that our South East and London focused national government was politically incapable of doing. Sure they thought up some nice catch phrases like 'Northern Power House' and commenced with HS2 but, just fell back onto the crappy Barnett every time.

 

[PeteEU]

What? No, US states don't claim to be countries. Maybe before the Civil War they did.

You should tell places like Texas who want to become one..

Not if they don't control spending from their own revenues, or control their own money, which EU members do not entirely.

No country does that entirely with maybe the US as an exception (the whole world currency bit).

 

[PeteEU]

I'm wrong? But you just confirmed what I'd said. The UK pays into the EU, and then the EU pays for selected projects in the UK. Those projects is where you'll find white hot support for Remain. No surprise there.

Not sure you understand how it works. Okay, say that a regional or local government want to put in a new road, or building to grow the economy. They apply for EU funding and normally also get some national funding as well. But only places that are with in the regional development fund areas can apply... but it is local government, not national government, that has to apply. In fact there have been situations where local and national governments have been at odds over projects..

God forbid that the UK should decide where the money, its own money, should go.

Well they do.. the local government asks for the money and get it. It is not the EU that dictates anything lol.. In fact because of this, many areas of the UK are far more developed today than they would have been without the EU funding. Why? Because Westminster governments regularly ignored the outer regions (Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland) for investments.

 

[PeteEU]

Just FYI, Scotland does set its own education and criminal laws.

Yes but only with the permission of Westminster.. England can take away that privilege at any time they want.. granted it would mean a civil war, but still.

 

[PeteEU]

That is rather a document of ignorance of the way socioeconomic politics work or a populist simplification for the ignorant of the kind that lost the Brexit discussion for the EU lobby. That is really sad. You haven't even understood, what the result of the referendum means or you thing that the populations of the continent are stupid enough to swallow that slippery trash anyway.

What on earth are you babbling about?

Just think about it. The EU backers were not able to explain the value of their main political and economic effort of 50 years. If you cannot justify that much spending and activity, it deserves to die.

Justify? LOL what on earth are you babbling about here? You really want to explain why we have CAP and why we have a common market, and why the EU has spent money in improving infrastructure in areas that have been negleged by national governments? You really want "us" to justify such things?

Listen, I will make you a deal.. I will justify most of the spending, if you finally come with the proof I have been asking about in multiple threads over years... still waiting.