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Brexit, Germany, France and a lot W. Europe moving to the right

faithful_servant

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So has anyone else noticed that after decades of creeping European style socialism, the major players in Europe are moving more and more to the right?? Personally, I find this very encouraging, not only for Europe, but the US as well. People get tired of footing someone else's bills and eventually they take a stand tell them to start carrying their fair share of the load. This trend in the US towards being carried, instead of carrying your own load hopefully has an end similar to Europe.
 

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The thread title makes this a fail already. No substantiation.
 

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Do you want nationalism to be the basis of inducting new right-wing voters, or of the entire conservative platform. We all know how that turned out in Germany. Just curious about what your thoughts are.

The thing is that it's not just right-wing voters that we're concerned with, but these right-wing populists are also managing to attract traditionally moderate voters with their party programs built on social-populist nationalism."
 

iguanaman

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Do you want nationalism to be the basis of inducting new right-wing voters, or of the entire conservative platform. We all know how that turned out in Germany. Just curious about what your thoughts are.

Since when do ideologies care where they get their power? The Right will use the economic turmoil this causes to consolidate their power and double down on false enemies to cover the mess they are making of the economy. It is a tried and true path to the authoritarian Govts. the right favors. The more desperate people get the more they are willing to give up their freedoms for a false sense of security.
 

Red_Dave

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So has anyone else noticed that after decades of creeping European style socialism, the major players in Europe are moving more and more to the right?? Personally, I find this very encouraging, not only for Europe, but the US as well. People get tired of footing someone else's bills and eventually they take a stand tell them to start carrying their fair share of the load. This trend in the US towards being carried, instead of carrying your own load hopefully has an end similar to Europe.

I think the referendum is less about left and right then you are imagining.

Labourleave | campaign for a reformed EU
 

rocket88

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So has anyone else noticed that after decades of creeping European style socialism, the major players in Europe are moving more and more to the right?? Personally, I find this very encouraging, not only for Europe, but the US as well. People get tired of footing someone else's bills and eventually they take a stand tell them to start carrying their fair share of the load. This trend in the US towards being carried, instead of carrying your own load hopefully has an end similar to Europe.

The right wing in Europe does not equal the right wing in America. In Europe, even Dick Cheney is considered liberal.
 

Tanngrisnir

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So has anyone else noticed that after decades of creeping European style socialism, the major players in Europe are moving more and more to the right?? Personally, I find this very encouraging, not only for Europe, but the US as well. People get tired of footing someone else's bills and eventually they take a stand tell them to start carrying their fair share of the load. This trend in the US towards being carried, instead of carrying your own load hopefully has an end similar to Europe.

What trend is that?
 

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The right wing in Europe does not equal the right wing in America. In Europe, even Dick Cheney is considered liberal.
I think you got that butt-backwards. In Europe he's considered (not by all) to be fascist.

Even Obama is seen as conservative.

Works the other way round as well in that everyone in Europe even slightly left of Genghis Khan is a commie. :mrgreen:
 

rocket88

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I think you got that butt-backwards. In Europe he's considered (not by all) to be fascist.

Even Obama is seen as conservative.

Works the other way round as well in that everyone in Europe even slightly left of Genghis Khan is a commie. :mrgreen:

You're probably right about old Dick himself, but in general the American right is to the left of the European right and doesn't carry the same taint of racism.
 

German guy

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So has anyone else noticed that after decades of creeping European style socialism, the major players in Europe are moving more and more to the right?? Personally, I find this very encouraging, not only for Europe, but the US as well. People get tired of footing someone else's bills and eventually they take a stand tell them to start carrying their fair share of the load. This trend in the US towards being carried, instead of carrying your own load hopefully has an end similar to Europe.

What you fail to see is that "right" in Europe does not mean "pro-business" or "pro-small government".

The far-right in Europe, which indeed has been growing, is the same kind of beast some American right-wingers call "socialist". It's nationalistic protectionism combined with socialist economic policies and anti-immigrant/xenophobia stances.

If there is any place in the world where "small government" and "conservative" are synonymous, it's America -- but not so in the rest of the world (though I doubt that's even the case in America).

Point being: Don't confuse the "right-wing" anti-EU populism with the ideology Americans consider conservative. It's not even similar.
 

German guy

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The right wing in Europe does not equal the right wing in America. In Europe, even Dick Cheney is considered liberal.

Yes and no.

Putting Cheney aside for a moment ... what you call economic conservative or libertarian, we call "liberal". What you call socialist, we call "social democrat" or "christian democrat" (or indeed "socialist" in some cases). What you call social conservative, we call "right-wing populist" or even "fascist". :p
 

rocket88

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Yes and no.

Putting Cheney aside for a moment ... what you call economic conservative or libertarian, we call "liberal". What you call socialist, we call "social democrat" or "christian democrat" (or indeed "socialist" in some cases). What you call social conservative, we call "right-wing populist" or even "fascist". :p

At any rate, applying American political notions to Europe to make your ideology look awesome is a big fail.
 

faithful_servant

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To all those who think that "moving to the right" means "Americna style conservatism", let me make it clear: I'm talking about a trend of moving from left to less left, and definitely to the right. I never said that Europe was about to be dominated by the likes of Ted Cruz, Trump, etc., just that it was moving to the right.
 
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