Bremerton, Washington letter carrier is refusing to enter pot shops to deliver mail

[EMNofSeattle]

Re: Bremerton, Washington letter carrier is refusing to enter pot shops to deliver ma

Whoa!

Okay, I used to be a postal clerk and I worked for and personally knew Harry Kleinfelter when he was the assistant posmaster in Silverdale - he's a good guy, and I've got nothing bad at all to say of him. If he says they're addressing the problem, I believe him...and the postal carrier who's not doing his or her job will be reassigned...but almost certainly not let go, since there's a conflict with federal law. But Harry will find someone else who will do the job.

Yeah, there is the point of conflict with federal law...but like the great majority of the rest of the postal workers in Washington and Colorado, they're going to deliver the mail - that's what they do, and they're mostly a heck of a lot more relaxed than this particular postal carrier.

That's what I'm thinking. She should probably be reassigned. But I do not support the notion she should be put in federal prison or fired as some here have suggested.

I have a great deal of respect for the postal service, they put up with a lot and I'm usually going to give a letter carrier the benefit of the doubt in an ambigous situation

 

[Absentglare]

Re: Bremerton, Washington letter carrier is refusing to enter pot shops to deliver ma

That's what I'm thinking. She should probably be reassigned. But I do not support the notion she should be put in federal prison or fired as some here have suggested.

I have a great deal of respect for the postal service, they put up with a lot and I'm usually going to give a letter carrier the benefit of the doubt in an ambigous situation

Lol ! According to you, she did absolutely nothing wrong, so why should she be reassigned ?

If your mail carrier doesn't like you, you shouldn't receive any mail, and if you don't like it, ignore all the super strict laws about it because of no reason.

 

[Glen Contrarian]

Re: Bremerton, Washington letter carrier is refusing to enter pot shops to deliver ma

Lol ! According to you, she did absolutely nothing wrong, so why should she be reassigned ?

If your mail carrier doesn't like you, you shouldn't receive any mail, and if you don't like it, ignore all the super strict laws about it because of no reason.

As much as I disagree with EMN on so many subjects, he does have a point in that postal carriers are violating federal law by delivering stuff to businesses openly selling marijuana. That's why he and I both agree that what's going to happen is that the postmaster involved - whom I personally know and respect - will do the pragmatic thing and reassign the carrier to a different route in order to avoid a long, tortuous court battle that would probably wind up in the Supreme Court.

 

[Absentglare]

Re: Bremerton, Washington letter carrier is refusing to enter pot shops to deliver ma

As much as I disagree with EMN on so many subjects, he does have a point in that postal carriers are violating federal law by delivering stuff to businesses openly selling marijuana. That's why he and I both agree that what's going to happen is that the postmaster involved - whom I personally know and respect - will do the pragmatic thing and reassign the carrier to a different route in order to avoid a long, tortuous court battle that would probably wind up in the Supreme Court.

How is delivering mail a violation of federal law ?

Some mail carriers went to prison in Ohio. They were accepting bribes and knowingly delivering drugs on their scheduled routes.

Do you seriously expect me to believe that delivering ordinary mail is against the law ? What law is being violated ?

The case being cited, Gonzales v Raich, went to court over plants being destroyed. Even the people growing marijuana themselves were not imprisoned as criminals. They just had their plants destroyed. Is the mail carrier afraid of the plants being destroyed ?

Fact is, this mail carrier is using the federal schedule I status of marijuana as an excuse to let their personal prejudice interfere with their occupational obligation. Handing someone's mail to an obvious customer made me cringe. Not bothering to deliver mail is an actual crime that actually lands mail carriers in actual prison.

 

[clownboy]

Re: Bremerton, Washington letter carrier is refusing to enter pot shops to deliver ma

Can you provide it for Washington since the story I just read on it (from last year) claimed there was no such process. Perhaps they got it wrong.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Don't know if there is one in Washington. I said CO and OR. I know folks who work in the supply end for the shops here in OR.

 

[clownboy]

Re: Bremerton, Washington letter carrier is refusing to enter pot shops to deliver ma

Lol okay fine then :

"On another occasion, the camera captured the carrier handing off the mail to a customer who was leaving the store.

"She asked the customer to bring it inside," says Hartwell."

Bremerton pot businesses: Letter carrier won't deliver our mail | KOMO

You can't seriously argue that it's acceptable to deliver someone's mail to a stranger.

Actually against federal code and if she did that she's committed a federal crime and violated the current USO (Universal Service Obligation).

 

[Absentglare]

Re: Bremerton, Washington letter carrier is refusing to enter pot shops to deliver ma

Actually against federal code and if she did that she's committed a federal crime and violated the current USO (Universal Service Obligation).

Absolutely, and you can watch a video of the mail carrier cavalierly handing mail off to a customer.

If the mail cannot be delivered, THEN the mail cannot be delivered. Delivering the mail in such a wholly inappropriate manner is obscene.

We pride ourselves on guaranteeing free speech for people we might not like and fair trials for people we might not like- why the hell is it acceptable to **** on the legal obligations to marijuana dispensaries ?

 

[clownboy]

Re: Bremerton, Washington letter carrier is refusing to enter pot shops to deliver ma

They are not legitimate businesses, they are criminal enterprises under the controlled substances act, stop BSing everyone

Nope. They are indeed legitimate business licensed by the state.

 

[clownboy]

Re: Bremerton, Washington letter carrier is refusing to enter pot shops to deliver ma

They're not allowed to operate dispenseries period, so excuse me if I don't trust a criminal to be obeying the letter of the law.

You're wrong. This is a state matter and those dispensaries are licensed by the state.

 

[clownboy]

Re: Bremerton, Washington letter carrier is refusing to enter pot shops to deliver ma

They are allowed to take reasonable precautions to ensure their safety and to not open themselves up to liability however.

Not what's happening in this case. That the USPS itself says the carrier is in the wrong here should be your first clue.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Re: Bremerton, Washington letter carrier is refusing to enter pot shops to deliver ma

You're wrong. This is a state matter and those dispensaries are licensed by the state.

SUBCHAPTER I — CONTROL AND ENFORCEMENT

Part D — Offenses And Penalties

§841. Prohibited acts A

(a) Unlawful acts

Except as authorized by this subchapter, it shall be unlawful for any person knowingly or intentionally—

(1) to manufacture, distribute, or dispense, or possess with intent to manufacture, distribute, or dispense, a controlled substance; or

(2) to create, distribute, or dispense, or possess with intent to distribute or dispense, a counterfeit substance.

I am actually quite right. Don't start the sovereign citizen line with me, US law applies in Washington state same as everywhere else.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Re: Bremerton, Washington letter carrier is refusing to enter pot shops to deliver ma

Nope. They are indeed legitimate business licensed by the state.

State licenses are not a defense to federal prosecution.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Re: Bremerton, Washington letter carrier is refusing to enter pot shops to deliver ma

Actually against federal code and if she did that she's committed a federal crime and violated the current USO (Universal Service Obligation).

Which code?

 

[Absentglare]

Re: Bremerton, Washington letter carrier is refusing to enter pot shops to deliver ma

I am actually quite right. Don't start the sovereign citizen line with me, US law applies in Washington state same as everywhere else.

That does not describe delivering mail.

 

[Absentglare]

Re: Bremerton, Washington letter carrier is refusing to enter pot shops to deliver ma

Which code?

It was already cited for you, but then you swiveled to some "it's illegal but it's not enforced" garbage argument.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Re: Bremerton, Washington letter carrier is refusing to enter pot shops to deliver ma

It was already cited for you, but then you swiveled to some "it's illegal but it's not enforced" garbage argument.

no, you cited a statute that did not apply in this case, and I explained why it didn't apply and instead (because you know you can't win that argument) you just keep saying "illegal" nothing is illegal unless a law proscribes that conduct.

 

[Absentglare]

Re: Bremerton, Washington letter carrier is refusing to enter pot shops to deliver ma

no, you cited a statute that did not apply in this case, and I explained why it didn't apply and instead (because you know you can't win that argument) you just keep saying "illegal" nothing is illegal unless a law proscribes that conduct.

Did you forget the part where mail carriers go to prison, with a fine and/or up to 5 years in prison, for doing exactly what this bigoted mail carrier did ?

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Re: Bremerton, Washington letter carrier is refusing to enter pot shops to deliver ma

Did you forget the part where mail carriers go to prison, with a fine and/or up to 5 years in prison, for doing exactly what this bigoted mail carrier did ?

What law states that?

you cited the mail tampering statute, what the bigoted letter carrier did to this criminal drug dealer does not meet each element of that offense and thus she's not guilty and cannot be sent to prison or fined for it.

 

[Absentglare]

Re: Bremerton, Washington letter carrier is refusing to enter pot shops to deliver ma

What law states that?

you cited the mail tampering statute, what the bigoted letter carrier did to this criminal drug dealer does not meet each element of that offense and thus she's not guilty and cannot be sent to prison or fined for it.

The facts completely demolish your desired narrative above.

"(a) Whoever, being a Postal Service officer or employee, unlawfully secretes, destroys, detains, delays, or opens any letter, postal card, package, bag, or mail entrusted to him or which shall come into his possession, and which was intended to be conveyed by mail, or carried or delivered by any carrier or other employee of the Postal Service, or forwarded through or delivered from any post office or station thereof established by authority of the Postmaster General or the Postal Service, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both."

This is exactly what is captured on video. The letter of the law and the video itself are unambiguous in this respect. This is why your tactic has been to simply deny these facts.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Re: Bremerton, Washington letter carrier is refusing to enter pot shops to deliver ma

The facts completely demolish your desired narrative above.

"(a) Whoever, being a Postal Service officer or employee, unlawfully secretes, destroys, detains, delays, or opens any letter, postal card, package, bag, or mail entrusted to him or which shall come into his possession, and which was intended to be conveyed by mail, or carried or delivered by any carrier or other employee of the Postal Service, or forwarded through or delivered from any post office or station thereof established by authority of the Postmaster General or the Postal Service, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both."

This is exactly what is captured on video. The letter of the law and the video itself are unambiguous in this respect. This is why your tactic has been to simply deny these facts.

it is not a crime to delay, read it again, it is a crime to "unlawfully........... delays........... etc"

The delay must be the result of an unlawful act. so what was the predicating illegality?

 

[Absentglare]

Re: Bremerton, Washington letter carrier is refusing to enter pot shops to deliver ma

it is not a crime to delay, read it again, it is a crime to "unlawfully........... delays........... etc"

The delay must be the result of an unlawful act. so what was the predicating illegality?

Secrete: to discharge, generate, or release

Mail was released on the video.

The mail that was released on the video was obviously released to a customer of the establishment who was not an employee accepting the mail.

Releasing mail to one who is not the addressee is illegal.

Obviously, the mail was illegally released, as shown on the video and as described in exquisite detail to you.

 

[Glen Contrarian]

Re: Bremerton, Washington letter carrier is refusing to enter pot shops to deliver ma

How is delivering mail a violation of federal law ?

Some mail carriers went to prison in Ohio. They were accepting bribes and knowingly delivering drugs on their scheduled routes.

Do you seriously expect me to believe that delivering ordinary mail is against the law ? What law is being violated ?

The case being cited, Gonzales v Raich, went to court over plants being destroyed. Even the people growing marijuana themselves were not imprisoned as criminals. They just had their plants destroyed. Is the mail carrier afraid of the plants being destroyed ?

Fact is, this mail carrier is using the federal schedule I status of marijuana as an excuse to let their personal prejudice interfere with their occupational obligation. Handing someone's mail to an obvious customer made me cringe. Not bothering to deliver mail is an actual crime that actually lands mail carriers in actual prison.

People selling what is in the federal government's eyes an illegal drug is a crime...and so anyone who provides any support to those businesses could possibly be held responsible, too. Is that how it would unfold in federal court? I don't know - I suspect much would depend upon the pragmatism and political lean of the judge. I'm only saying that it is not a clear-cut case of innocence or guilt, and because of that, even though I am strongly for the legalization of marijuana nationwide (hey, I am progressive, remember), I can understand to some extent the postal carrier's point, though I strongly disagree with the (flatly illegal) way he or she went about carrying out what he or she might have thought was an act of civil disobedience.

What I'm getting at is even though we disagree with the other side, it is proper to try to understand the other side's viewpoint (although we rarely see such attempts at empathy from the Right, I think you'd agree).

 

[Absentglare]

Re: Bremerton, Washington letter carrier is refusing to enter pot shops to deliver ma

People selling what is in the federal government's eyes an illegal drug is a crime...and so anyone who provides any support to those businesses could possibly be held responsible, too. Is that how it would unfold in federal court? I don't know - I suspect much would depend upon the pragmatism and political lean of the judge. I'm only saying that it is not a clear-cut case of innocence or guilt, and because of that, even though I am strongly for the legalization of marijuana nationwide (hey, I am progressive, remember), I can understand to some extent the postal carrier's point, though I strongly disagree with the (flatly illegal) way he or she went about carrying out what he or she might have thought was an act of civil disobedience.

What I'm getting at is even though we disagree with the other side, it is proper to try to understand the other side's viewpoint (although we rarely see such attempts at empathy from the Right, I think you'd agree).

If an employee feels that they are put in a position where they have personal issues doing their stated job, they should resign before they respond by breaking the law themselves.

There was a case of postal workers in Ohio who were imprisoned for affiliating with drug dealers; they were accepting bribes and knowingly delivering drugs on their routes.

There is no criminal intent by a mail carrier simply delivering mail. I cannot seriously entertain the idea that any criminal charges would ever be levied against any city worker who provided electricity, water, gas, street sweeping, etc support to a business that happened to engage in activity that is technically illegal at the federal level.

I don't care what consequences they face. However, it is absolutely unambiguous that what they did was wrong. It was plainly stupid to break an actual law in protest.

 

[CycloneWanderer]

Re: Bremerton, Washington letter carrier is refusing to enter pot shops to deliver ma

Secrete: to discharge, generate, or release

Mail was released on the video.

The mail that was released on the video was obviously released to a customer of the establishment who was not an employee accepting the mail.

Releasing mail to one who is not the addressee is illegal.

Obviously, the mail was illegally released, as shown on the video and as described in exquisite detail to you.

I would just like to point out that the legal definition of secrete differs slightly from the more common usage you provide.

The legal definition of secrete is basically to hide or conceal (you can search for it in Black's Law Dictionary (thelawdictionary.org). This meaning is further reinforced by an earlier version's use of the word "secrets" which was updated to "secretes" in 1949 as an update in language.

I believe your interpretation of this particular law is inaccurate based on this distinction.

 

[CycloneWanderer]

Re: Bremerton, Washington letter carrier is refusing to enter pot shops to deliver ma

Of course, the USPS, itself, is firmly on the side of the business :

"In a statement, Public Information Officer Ernie Swanson says, "The Postal Service apologizes for the customer's inconvenience. Mail service is being provided to the businesses.""

I don't read that statement as being "on the side of the business." I read that more as "Sorry for your inconvenience; we are doing our job."
Kind of a passive aggressive way of saying, "we're so sad to hear about how you don't like the way your mail is being delivered: on time."

In order for me to think they are fully on the side of the business, I would expect it to read something along the lines of "apologizes for the disruption in service; this issue will be resolved shortly."