Brain drain in states barring gay marriage

[Paschendale]

There is no ban on same sex marriage in Texas, it just isn't legally recognized. I can go to a church and get married to my lover, it just wouldn't be recognized by the state. heroin is banned in Texas, if you possess it purchase it use it our sell it you receive a penalty. If you go to a church and get married the state doesn't recognize it but it isn't banned, you don't receive a penalty for doing it.

How is it a ban if I can get married?

Because marriage is a legal status. The semantics of state "recognition" are nonsense. State recognition is the only one with legal authority, the only one that can be the subject of applicable law. When you marry in a synagogue (because I'm tired of all this Christian-centric language) the Rabbi says "by the power vested in me by the state of ________". It doesn't count without state approval. The fiction that there is such a thing as a religious marriage without state approval is just that, fiction.

 

[paddymcdougall]

why is clax1911 reminding me of the people who argued that lesbians and gays can get married - they just have to marry someone of the opposite gender?

If the state only recognizes opposite gender marriages, then marriage equality doesn't exist.

I could jump over a broomstick and declare myself married - California ain't going to accept it, even if I do it with someone of the opposite gender.

 

[Northern Light]

Also what does it say to the young gay folk who grow up in this state and have no choice but to stay here if people like myself leave?

It says that they should leave in order to broaden their horizons and life experience. Your loyalty to FA is unfounded, if it's screwing over your personal life. Most anti-gay or anti-SSM people have never taken the time to research all the studies which correlate certain heightened abilities to gay people. The notion that many gay men for example tend to outperform their straight counterparts is gaining scientific evidence. Whether it's a product of nature or nurture is uncertain, but either way, right-wing states that continue to be bigoted about this issue are just shooting themselves in the foot.

I would go where you will be happiest. I know many SS couples who left these bigoted states and are much better off for it. If they want to continue firewalling the happy lives of young people then they can suffer the consequences. :shrug:

 

[CLAX1911]

Because marriage is a legal status. The semantics of state "recognition" are nonsense. State recognition is the only one with legal authority, the only one that can be the subject of applicable law. When you marry in a synagogue (because I'm tired of all this Christian-centric language) the Rabbi says "by the power vested in me by the state of ________". It doesn't count without state approval. The fiction that there is such a thing as a religious marriage without state approval is just that, fiction.

It isn't fiction that marriage exists without the state. I have been married fur ten years. the fiction is the states involvement. the state has nothing to do with marriage. To think that it does in my opinion is nuts.

That being said, i do think it is discrimination that my state will not recognize my marriage, but it certainly didn't ban it.

 

[CLAX1911]

why is clax1911 reminding me of the people who argued that lesbians and gays can get married - they just have to marry someone of the opposite gender?

If the state only recognizes opposite gender marriages, then marriage equality doesn't exist.

I could jump over a broomstick and declare myself married - California ain't going to accept it, even if I do it with someone of the opposite gender.

Why do i need the state to recognize my marriage? I have no clue why i remind you of the absurdity you say i remind you of. I don't know why the state has an opinion in the promise i made to my husband.

Don't get me wrong, i would like for the state to recognize same sex couples as bring married but just because they don't doesn't mean my promise to Evan is pointless. The state isn't involved.

 

[maquiscat]

Calm down.
I meant this web page, not this thread.

Calm down? CALM DOWN?!?! I DON"T NEED TO CLam DOWN!!!!!111!!1! eleventy@@!!!!!11




Of course that kind of humor goes over so much better with the visual and vebral cues to see I'm joking around.

And in a show of my sometimes OCD geek, a web page is a singular page within a website. So actually you mean within this web site or across this forum. It is a distinction with a difference. Now that I know no biggie for me but it might make a difference at some point in the future, so just FYI.

It isn't fiction that marriage exists without the state. I have been married fur ten years. the fiction is the states involvement. the state has nothing to do with marriage. To think that it does in my opinion is nuts.

That being said, i do think it is discrimination that my state will not recognize my marriage, but it certainly didn't ban it.

Well with that logic, then SSM is not banned anywhere within the US.

 

[paddymcdougall]

Why do i need the state to recognize my marriage? I have no clue why i remind you of the absurdity you say i remind you of. I don't know why the state has an opinion in the promise i made to my husband.

Don't get me wrong, i would like for the state to recognize same sex couples as bring married but just because they don't doesn't mean my promise to Evan is pointless. The state isn't involved.

You don't need the state to recognize your relationship to be committed. I totally agree with that. You need the state to recognize it to access things like health benefits from your employer for your partner; to file joint tax return; for social security death benefits.

While I'm heterosexual, I felt like you with my first long time partner; why did we need the state to recognize us? Well, then my partner didn't have health benefits; I got married by the state so my company would cover him. It was easy for us. Not so easy for my friends in same-sex relationships.

Mid-80s the point was really hammered home to me: A long time couple - 30 years - both males. Couldn't get married of course. One of them died. The other had to sell their house. Why? Because property taxes got reassessed and were too much for him to pay. If they had been married, the taxes would have stayed as they were and he could have continued living in their home of 30 years.

Very very sad.

So yeah, you have a relationship whether the state recognizes it or not. But you may be looking at a world of hurt in the future because you can't marry in the state's eyes. And wait till a hospital bans you from visiting your partner because you aren't married and the partner's family came in and said they didn't want you visiting....

 

[Dooble]

...In one sense I feel obligated to remain in Florida because this is where I earned my degree and started my career but on the other hand it feels like Florida doesn't really want us.

Or is it more like you don't really want Florida?

 

[CLAX1911]

You don't need the state to recognize your relationship to be committed. I totally agree with that. You need the state to recognize it to access things like health benefits from your employer for your partner; to file joint tax return; for social security death benefits.

While I'm heterosexual, I felt like you with my first long time partner; why did we need the state to recognize us? Well, then my partner didn't have health benefits; I got married by the state so my company would cover him. It was easy for us. Not so easy for my friends in same-sex relationships.

Mid-80s the point was really hammered home to me: A long time couple - 30 years - both males. Couldn't get married of course. One of them died. The other had to sell their house. Why? Because property taxes got reassessed and were too much for him to pay. If they had been married, the taxes would have stayed as they were and he could have continued living in their home of 30 years.

Very very sad.

So yeah, you have a relationship whether the state recognizes it or not. But you may be looking at a world of hurt in the future because you can't marry in the state's eyes. And wait till a hospital bans you from visiting your partner because you aren't married and the partner's family came in and said they didn't want you visiting....

Yes I agree, the state not recognizing it creates hardships some that I have encountered. And I think it is wrong that the state holds that standard.

 

[CLAX1911]

Calm down? CALM DOWN?!?! I DON"T NEED TO CLam DOWN!!!!!111!!1! eleventy@@!!!!!11




Of course that kind of humor goes over so much better with the visual and vebral cues to see I'm joking around.

And in a show of my sometimes OCD geek, a web page is a singular page within a website. So actually you mean within this web site or across this forum. It is a distinction with a difference. Now that I know no biggie for me but it might make a difference at some point in the future, so just FYI.

I apologize for the confusion

Well with that logic, then SSM is not banned anywhere within the US.

There are states that have banned it. Banning marriage and not legally recognizing it are two different things.

 

[paddymcdougall]

Yes I agree, the state not recognizing it creates hardships some that I have encountered. And I think it is wrong that the state holds that standard.

Couldn't agree with you more. Unfortunately, sometimes reality bites.

In a perfect world... sigh.

 

[Jerry]

Brain drain in states barring gay marriage: Column

I have a master's degree and considerable experience in my field. My boyfriend has two master's degrees and considerable experience in his field. I have been really struggling to find reasons to remain in Florida especially as far as the long term for our relationship. We both would eventually like marriage and kids to be a part of our lives and that is very unlikely to happen in this state. In one sense I feel obligated to remain in Florida because this is where I earned my degree and started my career but on the other hand it feels like Florida doesn't really want us.

I'm a bit worried because I see other gay couples now pondering the same things and I am already seeing how this could have a compounded effect because once other gay people leave it incentivizes other gay people to do so as well and the community just sort of falls apart and the support goes with it. I'm sure the social conservatives are happy about it because they probably believe all the deviants, sinners, and perverts are leaving and therefore their state will suddenly prosper all the better but I don't think that is how it will pan out in reality. Also what does it say to the young gay folk who grow up in this state and have no choice but to stay here if people like myself leave?

Well...my pet issue being gun ownership, I do not live in IL, NY or CA because they deny me that right. If I were you and my pet issue were SSM, I would not live in any state where SSM was not welcomed. I would move out of Florida.

 

[Un biased]

Brain drain in states barring gay marriage: Column

I have a master's degree and considerable experience in my field. My boyfriend has two master's degrees and considerable experience in his field. I have been really struggling to find reasons to remain in Florida especially as far as the long term for our relationship. We both would eventually like marriage and kids to be a part of our lives and that is very unlikely to happen in this state. In one sense I feel obligated to remain in Florida because this is where I earned my degree and started my career but on the other hand it feels like Florida doesn't really want us.

I'm a bit worried because I see other gay couples now pondering the same things and I am already seeing how this could have a compounded effect because once other gay people leave it incentivizes other gay people to do so as well and the community just sort of falls apart and the support goes with it. I'm sure the social conservatives are happy about it because they probably believe all the deviants, sinners, and perverts are leaving and therefore their state will suddenly prosper all the better but I don't think that is how it will pan out in reality. Also what does it say to the young gay folk who grow up in this state and have no choice but to stay here if people like myself leave?

Go to las Vegas for a weekend and return home married as long as your neighbors aren't hateful it would be difficult to raise kids in that kind of environment.

 

[Jerry]

Well with that logic, then SSM is not banned anywhere within the US.

List of U.S. state constitutional amendments banning same-sex unions by type - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Gipper]

Brain drain in states barring gay marriage: Column

I have a master's degree and considerable experience in my field. My boyfriend has two master's degrees and considerable experience in his field. I have been really struggling to find reasons to remain in Florida especially as far as the long term for our relationship. We both would eventually like marriage and kids to be a part of our lives and that is very unlikely to happen in this state. In one sense I feel obligated to remain in Florida because this is where I earned my degree and started my career but on the other hand it feels like Florida doesn't really want us.

I'm a bit worried because I see other gay couples now pondering the same things and I am already seeing how this could have a compounded effect because once other gay people leave it incentivizes other gay people to do so as well and the community just sort of falls apart and the support goes with it. I'm sure the social conservatives are happy about it because they probably believe all the deviants, sinners, and perverts are leaving and therefore their state will suddenly prosper all the better but I don't think that is how it will pan out in reality. Also what does it say to the young gay folk who grow up in this state and have no choice but to stay here if people like myself leave?

I don't consider it to be much of an issue. There are still highly educated people out there who are either against gay marriage, or neutral to it (probably more of the latter). I have multiple degrees, which include an MBA. There are many things I look at when it comes to states I want to move to (and I want to leave Alabama like you couldn't possibly fathom). Heading one state down is a possibility. Of the negatives involved with living in Florida (and there are many), SSM is not a criterion in the least.

I don't see this being an issue. As far as California, I couldn't give a damn about them. That state has no reason to openly express or force its business model or opinion on other states, as they are a broke ass joke.

 

[paddymcdougall]

I don't consider it to be much of an issue. There are still highly educated people out there who are either against gay marriage, or neutral to it (probably more of the latter). I have multiple degrees, which include an MBA. There are many things I look at when it comes to states I want to move to (and I want to leave Alabama like you couldn't possibly fathom). Heading one state down is a possibility. Of the negatives involved with living in Florida (and there are many), SSM is not a criterion in the least.

I don't see this being an issue. As far as California, I couldn't give a damn about them. That state has no reason to openly express or force its business model or opinion on other states, as they are a broke ass joke.

If you wanted to marry someone of the same gender, it would probably go up on your list of issues.

As far as California - we're actually doing ok now. Had a budget surplus this time.

 

[Gipper]

If you wanted to marry someone of the same gender, it would probably go up on your list of issues.

As far as California - we're actually doing ok now. Had a budget surplus this time.

The percentage of Americans that actually are homosexual is quite small. As such, this speaks more about heterosexuals wanting to make some sort of political statement by determining a state of residence.

If you're straight, SSM is a non-issue outside of an incredible need for righteous indignation.

 

[a351]

The percentage of Americans that actually are homosexual is quite small. As such, this speaks more about heterosexuals wanting to make some sort of political statement by determining a state of residence.

If you're straight, SSM is a non-issue outside of an incredible need for righteous indignation.

Really stupid comment. Some would like to see legalization for the benefit of close relatives and friends, or simply view it as an issue of dignity and human rights. To say you're oversimplifying the issue is an understatement.

 

[Gipper]

Really stupid comment. Some would like to see legalization for the benefit of close relatives and friends, or simply view it as an issue of dignity and human rights. To say you're oversimplifying the issue is an understatement.

To essentially pull up roots and move for those reasons is beyond foolish. I'm not about to move a thousand miles away because my buddy can't marry his boyfriend down the road from me. Oversimplification my ass.

Some people just need to be outraged. Basing critical junctions in your life over something that plays little to no part...that'd be stupid.

 

[paddymcdougall]

Really stupid comment. Some would like to see legalization for the benefit of close relatives and friends, or simply view it as an issue of dignity and human rights. To say you're oversimplifying the issue is an understatement.

Thanks. Nice answer.

Would I move? maybe not. But I sure as heck pushed my state to recognize it for the benefits of my friends, neighbors, relatives and for general civil rights. Glad California has it now.

 

[CriticalThought]

Go to las Vegas for a weekend and return home married as long as your neighbors aren't hateful it would be difficult to raise kids in that kind of environment.

Huh? That does not make any sense.

 

[Gipper]

Huh? That does not make any sense.

This is the internet - land of the run-on sentence and rampant punctuation allergies.

He supports your position, from what I could decipher of it.

 

[Lakryte]

There is no ban on same sex marriage in Texas, it just isn't legally recognized. I can go to a church and get married to my lover, it just wouldn't be recognized by the state. heroin is banned in Texas, if you possess it purchase it use it our sell it you receive a penalty. If you go to a church and get married the state doesn't recognize it but it isn't banned, you don't receive a penalty for doing it.

How is it a ban if I can get married?

You are equivocating. Clearly we are discussing the marriage license here, meaning civil marriage. Nobody ever means ceremonial marriage when they refer to states without same-sex marriage. I am a bit surprised you are making such arguments, you normally seem pretty level headed. You cannot get a marriage license in Texas if you are a gay couple, period. Thus it is banned.

 

[a351]

To essentially pull up roots and move for those reasons is beyond foolish. I'm not about to move a thousand miles away because my buddy can't marry his boyfriend down the road from me. Oversimplification my ass.

Some people just need to be outraged. Basing critical junctions in your life over something that plays little to no part...that'd be stupid.

I wasn't referring to moving due to anti SSM laws, but merely SSM as an important issue among the general populace. The idea that those who aren't personally affected cannot have a legitimate interest outside of self righteousness is equally absurd to the notion that American citizens lack a reason to voice their opinion on immigration, or men on women's issues. It's just a very short sighted viewpoint.

 

[CLAX1911]

You are equivocating. Clearly we are discussing the marriage license here, meaning civil marriage. Nobody ever means ceremonial marriage when they refer to states without same-sex marriage. I am a bit surprised you are making such arguments, you normally seem pretty level headed. You cannot get a marriage license in Texas if you are a gay couple, period. Thus it is banned.

I am making such an argument because it is accurate and level headed to do so. Marriage isn't necessarily a state issue. The state recognizing it is a state issue. It isn't banned. A ban means illegal, it clearly isn't illegal.

But I bore of this argument its pointless, I am for the state recognizing SSM, all states in fact. We are just arguing legal semantics and it doesn't seem productive.