• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Brain drain in states barring gay marriage

CriticalThought

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 11, 2009
Messages
19,568
Reaction score
8,354
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
It was telling that 278 of America's top corporations and municipalities were so worried about losing talented gay and lesbian workers that they filed briefs with the U.S. Supreme Court urging the justices to take the action they did: throwing out California's Proposition 8 and gutting the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA).

Several of those companies were concerned about losing LGBT workers with foreign-born partners, prompting the companies to write a letter to Congress saying, "We cannot afford to lose our most precious resource: talent."

And that talent is apparently already being lost, due to an LGBT job flight that began even before the Supreme Court's rulings.

Brain drain in states barring gay marriage: Column

I have a master's degree and considerable experience in my field. My boyfriend has two master's degrees and considerable experience in his field. I have been really struggling to find reasons to remain in Florida especially as far as the long term for our relationship. We both would eventually like marriage and kids to be a part of our lives and that is very unlikely to happen in this state. In one sense I feel obligated to remain in Florida because this is where I earned my degree and started my career but on the other hand it feels like Florida doesn't really want us.

I'm a bit worried because I see other gay couples now pondering the same things and I am already seeing how this could have a compounded effect because once other gay people leave it incentivizes other gay people to do so as well and the community just sort of falls apart and the support goes with it. I'm sure the social conservatives are happy about it because they probably believe all the deviants, sinners, and perverts are leaving and therefore their state will suddenly prosper all the better but I don't think that is how it will pan out in reality. Also what does it say to the young gay folk who grow up in this state and have no choice but to stay here if people like myself leave?
 

douglas

Active member
Joined
Jun 22, 2013
Messages
458
Reaction score
290
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Left
The trick is that stupid people don't know they're stupid. They think gay->sex-focused-life->pervert->rapists/criminals/prostitutes, so getting rid of gays means getting rid of crime = peace on earth. That's the thought pattern I can deduce from the average homophobe. That this could mean getting rid of needed personnel and specialists is a thought that completely doesn't cog with their preconceived notions of what gays do or who good people are.
 

CLAX1911

Supreme knower of all
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
Messages
51,656
Reaction score
10,357
Location
Houston, in the great state of Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
People that think that two men or two women getting married is going to cause their marriage to end or mean less aren't very bright. Most of these people are fixated on anal sex. They fitting realize that what makes a person gay isn't the desire to have anal sex, everybody has an anus so if it was about butts there would be no gay people if it was all about analsex.

It really boils down to ignorance. Look at the anti SSM arguments here on this page. All from pure ignorance.
 

opendebate

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 25, 2013
Messages
7,317
Reaction score
2,926
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
Brain drain in states barring gay marriage: Column

I have a master's degree and considerable experience in my field. My boyfriend has two master's degrees and considerable experience in his field. I have been really struggling to find reasons to remain in Florida especially as far as the long term for our relationship. We both would eventually like marriage and kids to be a part of our lives and that is very unlikely to happen in this state. In one sense I feel obligated to remain in Florida because this is where I earned my degree and started my career but on the other hand it feels like Florida doesn't really want us.

I'm a bit worried because I see other gay couples now pondering the same things and I am already seeing how this could have a compounded effect because once other gay people leave it incentivizes other gay people to do so as well and the community just sort of falls apart and the support goes with it. I'm sure the social conservatives are happy about it because they probably believe all the deviants, sinners, and perverts are leaving and therefore their state will suddenly prosper all the better but I don't think that is how it will pan out in reality. Also what does it say to the young gay folk who grow up in this state and have no choice but to stay here if people like myself leave?

Life is short and if you value the quality of the day to day life then I say go!! I agree, I would feel like I was being told I was not wanted also. Why be somewhere you don't feel respected and your right to love who you chose is not recognized? Believe me, waiting for the people around you to "evolve" to a higher level of thinking is a waste of time and effort.

My daughter is gay and it literally brought tears to my eyes that she and her girlfriend can now marry when they are ready. It is an absurd oppression to surround yourself with when you don't have to. GO!
 

CLAX1911

Supreme knower of all
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
Messages
51,656
Reaction score
10,357
Location
Houston, in the great state of Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
I live in Texas. I love my home. I am not really worried about the climate here because it is changing. On one hand you have the anti-people, on the other you have the unstoppable force of progress. The anti-people have lost every match they ever were part of. The unstoppable locomotive that is progress will force them out of the way or crush them beneath it's wheels. You can't stop progress. Just like the people that wear hoods this new form of bigotry will be mowed down.

I am not at all worried. Nothing is certain accept that nothing is certain.

But should you wish to move to more hospitable territory, I would certainly understand.
 

Fisher

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
17,002
Reaction score
6,913
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
I doubt you are going to find a state that much more gay friendly than FL, particularly around Orlando and South Beach, and I doubt three master degrees moving away cannot be replaced by 3 masters degrees moving in or 3 masters degrees already there waiting to be promoted. Seems kind of silly to me. I have a JD/MBA and disagree with about 2/3's of what goes on in my state, but I have no desire to move to any other state, let alone for some fleeting political point nobody but you will care about in the end.
 

tererun

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 19, 2012
Messages
4,905
Reaction score
1,578
Location
The darkside of the moon
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Other
There are a few things to consider. First off there is the reality that florida has a lot of people who are soon to die. The boomers are the next generation to become florida's elderly, and many of them come from the northeast. So pretty soon that voting block will be replaced with a much less hateful one. On top of that change is coming amazingly fast. I never thought i would see a mojority of people start thinking it was time to legalize gay marriage. Florida is a place that attracts a lot of different types of people, and that leads to a more accepting view. I would imagine florida's anti-gay stance will change much quicker than other places. There is a lot of exposure to gays in florida which also helps a lot in changing people's minds. If that is your only concern with florida i wouldn't worry too much about it. the lifestyle of florida and being almost in the tropics is attractive to many gays. they have good places to work in, cities with a lot of culture, and they are not going to be able to drive out the gays.

The places that would be worrisome would be places like pure red southern states like AL, MS, TN, and areas where there is not much to move to. These are very stagnant areas and they are very set in the southern christian lifestyle. You could chose to move to a blue state, but that is not a guarantee either. I got more crap in NY near NYC than I did in the carolinas. If you like the area then fight for it. If the area is not that important than find a better place that you enjoy more. ou seem to like the area, but you need to recognize florida isn't stuck in a rut like some other states. It is why it is considered a political battleground, and why it will change.
 

Lakryte

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 9, 2009
Messages
4,087
Reaction score
1,591
Location
California
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
I had considered moving to Texas because CA is so messed up financially, but because of Texas's bans on same-sex marriage (and what I assume to be a very homophobic culture to match) I will just have to stay here.
 

Dragonfly

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Messages
23,877
Reaction score
13,419
Location
East Coast - USA
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Centrist
In one sense I feel obligated to remain in Florida because this is where I earned my degree and started my career

Can you explain this very odd sense of obligation you feel?

Simply because you went to school in Florida you feel obligated to stay there?????

What?

Good lord - extensive education should be a ticket to freedom - not chains and a lock.

Move your smart ass to some place where you'll be the happiest you can be. Life is far to short, and has far to many nasty aspects to it to not take any and every chance you can to increase your happiness.

Your allegiance and obligation should not be to some highly strange entity like a state.

I'm just so confused over that idea. Would love for you to explain why you might feel that way.
 

CLAX1911

Supreme knower of all
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
Messages
51,656
Reaction score
10,357
Location
Houston, in the great state of Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
I had considered moving to Texas because CA is so messed up financially, but because of Texas's bans on same-sex marriage (and what I assume to be a very homophobic culture to match) I will just have to stay here.

There are no bans on same sex marriage here in Texas, they just aren't recognized yet. The climate here, at last in the big cities is not hostile
 

CriticalThought

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 11, 2009
Messages
19,568
Reaction score
8,354
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
I doubt you are going to find a state that much more gay friendly than FL, particularly around Orlando and South Beach, and I doubt three master degrees moving away cannot be replaced by 3 masters degrees moving in or 3 masters degrees already there waiting to be promoted. Seems kind of silly to me. I have a JD/MBA and disagree with about 2/3's of what goes on in my state, but I have no desire to move to any other state, let alone for some fleeting political point nobody but you will care about in the end.

It is more that I work in a rural area and I know how badly they need people. But I get your point. Even if every gay person in the state of Florida left, it would likely be filled by somebody, and I suppose that is the realistic way to look at it.
 

CriticalThought

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 11, 2009
Messages
19,568
Reaction score
8,354
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
Can you explain this very odd sense of obligation you feel?

Simply because you went to school in Florida you feel obligated to stay there?????

What?

Good lord - extensive education should be a ticket to freedom - not chains and a lock.

Move your smart ass to some place where you'll be the happiest you can be. Life is far to short, and has far to many nasty aspects to it to not take any and every chance you can to increase your happiness.

Your allegiance and obligation should not be to some highly strange entity like a state.

I'm just so confused over that idea. Would love for you to explain why you might feel that way.

I went to a state school. I couldn't afford many of the costs but my school went out of their way to help me several times so that I could finish my degree. Part of what the school was trying to do was keep high skilled workers in the state. So it is is more of a commitment to my old school than the state I guess.
 

Lakryte

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 9, 2009
Messages
4,087
Reaction score
1,591
Location
California
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
There are no bans on same sex marriage here in Texas, they just aren't recognized yet. The climate here, at last in the big cities is not hostile
I imagine in big cities like Austin it is better. But Texas does have written in its constitution that marriage is limited to a man and a woman does it not? That seems like a pretty clear ban to me...
 

paddymcdougall

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 17, 2013
Messages
3,032
Reaction score
1,687
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
I doubt you are going to find a state that much more gay friendly than FL, particularly around Orlando and South Beach, and I doubt three master degrees moving away cannot be replaced by 3 masters degrees moving in or 3 masters degrees already there waiting to be promoted. Seems kind of silly to me. I have a JD/MBA and disagree with about 2/3's of what goes on in my state, but I have no desire to move to any other state, let alone for some fleeting political point nobody but you will care about in the end.

I agree things will change in Florida - but if he wants to marry his b/f before that happens, moving is probably a good idea. Marrying somewhere else and coming back to Florida may cause his marriage not to be recognized even by the federal govt (I think they're still working through that). And of course if they later want to divorce, that gets tricky in a state that doesn't recognize their marriage.

So this may be worth moving for.
 

Dragonfly

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Messages
23,877
Reaction score
13,419
Location
East Coast - USA
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Centrist
I went to a state school. I couldn't afford many of the costs but my school went out of their way to help me several times so that I could finish my degree. Part of what the school was trying to do was keep high skilled workers in the state. So it is is more of a commitment to my old school than the state I guess.

So send the school some money every now and again and move to where-ever makes you happiest.
 

CLAX1911

Supreme knower of all
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
Messages
51,656
Reaction score
10,357
Location
Houston, in the great state of Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
I imagine in big cities like Austin it is better. But Texas does have written in its constitution that marriage is limited to a man and a woman does it not? That seems like a pretty clear ban to me...

No that isn't a ban, some states have a ban. same sex marriage is simply not recognized yet.
 

roguenuke

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 6, 2007
Messages
48,140
Reaction score
17,167
Location
Rolesville, NC
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
I had considered moving to Texas because CA is so messed up financially, but because of Texas's bans on same-sex marriage (and what I assume to be a very homophobic culture to match) I will just have to stay here.

Although it is true that Texas is very conservative in its governing, there is still a lot more support to legalize same sex marriage as compared to almost all the other Southern states. Texas appears to have more support than Florida (although Florida isn't too far behind).

States That Might Get Gay Marriage Next (or Never) ? Polled, Mapped & Ranked - Philip Bump - The Atlantic Wire

Now, much of this relies mainly on popular support, vice political support, so it could absolutely change the order of these legalizations.
 

Lakryte

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 9, 2009
Messages
4,087
Reaction score
1,591
Location
California
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
No that isn't a ban, some states have a ban. same sex marriage is simply not recognized yet.
A constitutional amendment limiting marriage to a man and a woman is a ban on same sex marriage--a constitutional ban, actually, even worse than a statutory one. What exactly are you defining as a ban?
 
Last edited:

Juanita

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 26, 2013
Messages
3,981
Reaction score
863
Location
now? COLORADO
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
I agree things will change in Florida - but if he wants to marry his b/f before that happens, moving is probably a good idea. Marrying somewhere else and coming back to Florida may cause his marriage not to be recognized even by the federal govt (I think they're still working through that). And of course if they later want to divorce, that gets tricky in a state that doesn't recognize their marriage.

So this may be worth moving for.



I agree. The problem with a State becoming more progressive is that it could take a generation... I think that moving is a good idea, but nothing to rush into... See what the options are in your field in the States that have approved gay marriage, visit them and then come to a decision...
 

Paschendale

Uncanny
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 3, 2010
Messages
12,510
Reaction score
12,604
Location
New York City
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Socialist
I definitely wouldn't want to stay in a state that discriminated against me. I can't imagine wanting to setup shop in North Carolina, for example, with all its attempts to enforce Christianity. New York is fine for me.
 

CLAX1911

Supreme knower of all
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
Messages
51,656
Reaction score
10,357
Location
Houston, in the great state of Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
A constitutional amendment limiting marriage to a man and a woman is a ban on same sex marriage--a constitutional ban, actually, even worse than a statutory one. What exactly are you defining as a ban?

A statute that states that it is banned
 

Lakryte

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 9, 2009
Messages
4,087
Reaction score
1,591
Location
California
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
A statute that states that it is banned
That seems like a pretty absurd semantic argument to me. A statute doesn't need to say "same-sex marriage is banned" to ban same-sex marriage. If I passed a law saying the only soda that could be sold was Pepsi, I would effectively be banning Coke and all other types of soda from being sold. By explicitly limiting marriage to one man and one woman in the constitution itself, Texas is clearly banning same-sex marriage and all other types of marriage. Which is why virtually any resource discussing same-sex marriage in the 50 states will list Texas as having a ban on same-sex marriage.
 

maquiscat

Maquis Admiral
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 9, 2011
Messages
14,026
Reaction score
4,481
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
People that think that two men or two women getting married is going to cause their marriage to end or mean less aren't very bright. Most of these people are fixated on anal sex. They fitting realize that what makes a person gay isn't the desire to have anal sex, everybody has an anus so if it was about butts there would be no gay people if it was all about analsex.

It really boils down to ignorance. Look at the anti SSM arguments here on this page. All from pure ignorance.

WTF? This was post #3. There was no anti-SSM arguments in the first two posts. Were you predicting? Or did you forget a link?

Added: I've now been through all post up to this one. I haven't found one anti-SSM post.
 
Last edited:

CLAX1911

Supreme knower of all
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
Messages
51,656
Reaction score
10,357
Location
Houston, in the great state of Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
WTF? This was post #3. There was no anti-SSM arguments in the first two posts. Were you predicting? Or did you forget a link?

Added: I've now been through all post up to this one. I haven't found one anti-SSM post.
Calm down.
I meant this web page, not this thread.
 
Last edited:

CLAX1911

Supreme knower of all
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
Messages
51,656
Reaction score
10,357
Location
Houston, in the great state of Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
That seems like a pretty absurd semantic argument to me. A statute doesn't need to say "same-sex marriage is banned" to ban same-sex marriage. If I passed a law saying the only soda that could be sold was Pepsi, I would effectively be banning Coke and all other types of soda from being sold. By explicitly limiting marriage to one man and one woman in the constitution itself, Texas is clearly banning same-sex marriage and all other types of marriage. Which is why virtually any resource discussing same-sex marriage in the 50 states will list Texas as having a ban on same-sex marriage.

There is no ban on same sex marriage in Texas, it just isn't legally recognized. I can go to a church and get married to my lover, it just wouldn't be recognized by the state. heroin is banned in Texas, if you possess it purchase it use it our sell it you receive a penalty. If you go to a church and get married the state doesn't recognize it but it isn't banned, you don't receive a penalty for doing it.

How is it a ban if I can get married?
 
Top Bottom