BoyCott those who are cancel culture advocates. Censorship is un-American and you can't support that with your dollars or with your silence.

[Allan]

So you are suggesting I must financially support a corporation that I do not agree with?

No you don't. But don't complain when everyone boycott's Tucker Carlson's advertisers.

 

[bearpoker]

So you are suggesting I must financially support a corporation that I do not agree with? Well then I suggest all those that didn't support Trump are in the wrong for not supporting Trump because they disagreed with him. Everyone should have had to vote for Trump.

Nope. I think you should spend your money as you see fit, just like me. I was simply pointing out your hypocrisy.

 

[bearpoker]

You are I think mixing categories? If a given business, or corporations, in any way shape or form indicate that they oppose any Constitutional right, through any means at their disposal, they must be taken to task for this.

They are obligated to remove 'hate speech' and other expressions and to do this reasonably. They may have an obligation to limit some speech but not *as they see fit*. The line is drawn when a broadcaster engages in editing and thus becomes a 'publisher'. But I assume you know this.

Free speech and the Second Amendment are certainly under threat. In America, obviously, it has already become *illegal* to say and think certain things publically. You know this and we all know this. Let's make it conscious.

Banning, shunning, demonetizing, no-fly lists (there are some who propose these) and any activities that curtain the First Amendment right must be quickly opposed. These are its manifestations. You might be in favor of this and support it, but I do not think this is a defensible position.

While I respect your view, and there is a certain logic in what you say (about a private business having the right to control speech), you must surely be aware that the social media platforms like Twitter and Facebook have become, and have been transformed into, areas that are comparable to and commensurate with 'the public square'.

Obviously -- and in a *democracy* -- the public square and the sphere of public, civic communication, is a special and a crucial area. I assume that you recognize this, though you might not want to concede the point.

By your (apparent) definition Google could limit any speech it does not like from flowing through it. Obviously this is a totally indefensible position, but try to defend it if you think you can.

They have a right to enforce their TOS, which is a contract agreed to by their users. They are not a government making laws about speech. Trump should have read the terms he agreed to in order to post on Twitter.

 

[Integrityrespec]

So you are suggesting I must financially support a corporation that I do not agree with? Well then I suggest all those that didn't support Trump are in the wrong for not supporting Trump because they disagreed with him. Everyone should have had to vote for Trump.

The common idea of the left is vilifying everything they are opposed too. Well that certainly can work both ways. Freedom of choice, whether it be speech or where I spend my money is a right exercised by everyone in America. I have the privilege in this country to exercise my freedoms and so must everyone else. What you don't have and I don't have is preventing your rights because I disagree. By not investing in Google stock I am not taking form them something that is theirs, it's mine, they are not entitled to it. By canceling my free speech or perhaps my right to vote, I would be denied my right because I disagree with someones arbitrary opinion.
The Internet, twitter, Facebook operate much like a public utility and so should have to conform to the broader public good.

Public utility, enterprise that provides certain classes of services to the public, including common carrier transportation (buses, airlines, railroads, motor freight carriers, pipelines, etc.); telephone and telegraph; power, heat, and light; and community facilities for water, sanitation, and similar services.

 

[Integrityrespec]

They have a right to enforce their TOS, which is a contract agreed to by their users. They are not a government making laws about speech. Trump should have read the terms he agreed to in order to post on Twitter.

But Hate Speech is an arbitrary construct based on someone's subjective opinion. None of us could possibly come up with a list of "hate speech" that would be agreed upon by everyone. Just as the nation often divided over political, moral, and ethical opinion. Hate speech is what ever someone says it is and that's not much of a standard. So a public utility. which is how the internet and companies like twitter operate, shouldn't be arbitrarily shutting down speech based on their subjective opinion and allowing other speech believed by many to be just as foul or worse to continue.

 

[Alizia Tyler]

They have a right to enforce their TOS, which is a contract agreed to by their users. They are not a government making laws about speech. Trump should have read the terms he agreed to in order to post on Twitter.

You are failing to see the important underlying (overarching) issue here. But that is your choice.

 

[RetiredUSN]

The United State and the PGA Tour should be shamed for what they did to Moe Norman. Sure he was eccentric, but people came to love Moe "for being Moe" and he is the greatest ball striker that ever lived.

 

[Integrityrespec]

No you don't. But don't complain when everyone boycott's Tucker Carlson's advertisers.

I don't recall complaining when Tucker Carlson's advertisers pulled their funding,, that's their right. I do wonder why they decided to boycott Tucker Carlson and anger Carlson's supporters in favor of heeding the threats of his detractors. It's pretty much the two sides of the same coin. Companies are most often supported by people across the broad spectrum of opinions and political affiliations. They should be very cautious of bowing to every which way the wind blows. It always changes.

 

[Allan]

But Hate Speech is an arbitrary construct based on someone's subjective opinion. None of us could possibly come up with a list of "hate speech" that would be agreed upon by everyone. Just as the nation often divided over political, moral, and ethical opinion. Hate speech is what ever someone says it is and that's not much of a standard. So a public utility. which is how the internet and companies like twitter operate, shouldn't be arbitrarily shutting down speech based on their subjective opinion and allowing other speech believed by many to be just as foul or worse to continue.

Where it's a law it's clearly defined. Here's is Canada's legal definition of hate speech

319 (1) Every one who, by communicating statements in any public place, incites hatred against any identifiable group where such incitement is likely to lead to a breach of the peace is guilty of

Inciting hatred against an identifiable group - gays, religious adherents, minorities etc - is the key phrase. The other key phrase is 'such incitement is likely to lead to a breach of the peace.' If I shout from the rooftop inciting people to burn a Synagogue for example.

 

[Allan]

I don't recall complaining when Tucker Carlson's advertisers pulled their funding,, that's their right. I do wonder why they decided to boycott Tucker Carlson and anger Carlson's supporters in favor of heeding the threats of his detractors. It's pretty much the two sides of the same coin. Companies are most often supported by people across the broad spectrum of opinions and political affiliations. They should be very cautious of bowing to every which way the wind blows. It always changes.

It comes down to protecting their corporate image. Extremism at both ends of the political spectrum will spook companies.

 

[can2man]

What if this is your *projection* onto Trump? Not an accurate description of Trump necessarily, but a statement that reveals something about *you* or those you (seem to) speak for?

When I want to access the darker and stranger aspects of human nature . . . I turn to Melville and The Ambiguities!

I'm sure some of my dislike for Trump is my own projection, how could it not be? I am a human and we all have a shadow and bias. However, sometimes a dick is just a dick. I think that's a line from Melville.

 

[beefheart]

“I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it,” These words in some form are commonly attributed to Voltaire and Patrick Henry. They are part of the cornerstone of American freedom. Anyone who wants to shut that down, to silence the opposition freedom of speech should not be supported. Step u and be heard with your dollars. Don't patronize the corporations, the big tech companies, airlines or any other business that will not stand up in defense of freedom of speech. After all this is the United States of America, for how much longer?

Fail less

 

[TheParser]

“I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it,” These words in some form are commonly attributed to Voltaire and Patrick Henry. They are part of the cornerstone of American freedom. Anyone who wants to shut that down, to silence the opposition freedom of speech should not be supported. Step u and be heard with your dollars. Don't patronize the corporations, the big tech companies, airlines or any other business that will not stand up in defense of freedom of speech. After all this is the United States of America, for how much longer?

Sadly, it is often impossible to refrain from patronizing certain companies.

The biggest example is that famous marketplace website that so many of us have depended on during this lockdown. When that movement last year was causing chaos in the streets, that website had big banners boasting of how much it loved that movement. I was offended, but I needed the services, so I have continued to stay a customer.

All big corporations are blackmailed into supporting Cancel Culture, lest activists label them with the dreaded R-word. Needless to say, they also are "requested" to provide "donations" to the activists (who, after all, need money to fly first-class & stay at tony resorts).

Let's face it: Big Tech has all the power. We have none.

 

[Allan]

The United State and the PGA Tour should be shamed for what they did to Moe Norman. Sure he was eccentric, but people came to love Moe "for being Moe" and he is the greatest ball striker that ever lived.

I saw him do a demo in Ontario once. The fairway was laid out in numbered grids. He could hit any number, or very close, with ease using the most awkward swing you can imagine. He chatted constantly through the whole demonstration and I had the impression he was a golfer who could not be distracted.

 

[SheWolf]

“I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it,” These words in some form are commonly attributed to Voltaire and Patrick Henry. They are part of the cornerstone of American freedom. Anyone who wants to shut that down, to silence the opposition freedom of speech should not be supported. Step u and be heard with your dollars. Don't patronize the corporations, the big tech companies, airlines or any other business that will not stand up in defense of freedom of speech. After all this is the United States of America, for how much longer?

Do you not comprehend the irony of your post? Trump supporters are on Twitter promising to boycott Gath Brooks right now. You do stand for cancel culture. There is a long list of careers and projects the right wing has led in canceling and boycotting.

The ironic thing is, boycotting is protected speech. You have the right to boycott Kaepernick, the Dixie Chicks, etc., and everybody else has a right to boycott Maga, Trump Hotels, etc.

The issue with you people is that you don’t understand the constitution or freedom of speech, and you actually feel threatened, attacked, and maligned when other Americans exercise the same damn rights that you have.

 

[RetiredUSN]

I saw him do a demo in Ontario once. The fairway was laid out in numbered grids. He could hit any number, or very close, with ease using the most awkward swing you can imagine. He chatted constantly through the whole demonstration and I had the impression he was a golfer who could not be distracted.

Moe could talk to you throughout his swing, and you could jabber back at him.

I have over 70 hours of video of him swinging the club. I also took up the single plane swing.

 

[Allan]

I also took up the single plane swing.

Did it work for you?

 

[Integrityrespec]

The United State and the PGA Tour should be shamed for what they did to Moe Norman. Sure he was eccentric, but people came to love Moe "for being Moe" and he is the greatest ball striker that ever lived.

I'm not familiar with what the U.S. and PGA did to Moe, maybe you could tell me.

 

[Integrityrespec]

Where it's a law it's clearly defined. Here's is Canada's legal definition of hate speech


Inciting hatred against an identifiable group - gays, religious adherents, minorities etc - is the key phrase. The other key phrase is 'such incitement is likely to lead to a breach of the peace.' If I shout from the rooftop inciting people to burn a Synagogue for example.

An d every portion of the definition is subject to interpretation. I have seen many cases of "hate speech" that someone else disagreed with. Hate speech may be unpleasant and offensive but defining it is subjective. Calling whites, racist, is by the definition above, hate speech. That term incites hatred against whites who are an identifiable group, and done over and over would likely lead to a breach of the peace, just as use of the N word upset african americans.

 

[Integrityrespec]

Do you not comprehend the irony of your post? Trump supporters are on Twitter promising to boycott Gath Brooks right now. You do stand for cancel culture. There is a long list of careers and projects the right wing has led in canceling and boycotting.

The ironic thing is, boycotting is protected speech. You have the right to boycott Kaepernick, the Dixie Chicks, etc., and everybody else has a right to boycott Maga, Trump Hotels, etc.

The issue with you people is that you don’t understand the constitution or freedom of speech, and you actually feel threatened, attacked, and maligned when other Americans exercise the same damn rights that you have.

Not providing financial support to a performer, isn't cancel culture. We have no responsibility to support their careers. We aren't depriving them of a right, or anything they have earned or are entitled to or any rights they have. I don't have to go see him, don't have to go buy a ticket to support him. I'm not on the other hand saying he has no right to practice his trade, or for you to pay to go see him. The difference is the idea that you would cancel someones rights or something they earned. Like, students at Harvard wanting the University to remove a diploma that someone paid for and earned. The idea that someone such as those that worked in the Trump administration should not be allowed a job in the future because they worked in the Trump administration is cancel culture. The desire to cancel out a persons rights because you don't think they deserve them because you disagree is a direct affront to our Constitutional freedom. Now sure people have the right to suggest such things, it's free speech but it's also fundamentally wrong.

 

[Allan]

An d every portion of the definition is subject to interpretation.

Calling whites, racist, is by the definition above, hate speech.

Calling whites racist could be considered hate speech if it meets the conditions of the act - it's public and is likely to lead to a breach of the peace. If I stir up a mob with incendiary remarks about white racists and point them to the nearest Knights of Columbus that might fit the Act's definition.

 

[RetiredUSN]

I'm not familiar with what the U.S. and PGA did to Moe, maybe you could tell me.

Moe was certainly a odd ball in comparison to the Tour players. He had very bad teeth and wore mismatched clothing, but he was also a loveable kind of guy who thought the fans deserved a little entertainment. Moe loved making it fun. Moe also loved kids, and would do tricks for them during a tournament which pissed off the other pro's.

He would hit golf balls off the tee on top of Coke bottles for the fans and never break a bottle.

If another player in his pairing was excessively slow, Moe would lay down in the fairway and pretend he was sleeping to get a rise out of the gallery.

He repeated himself a lot with every sentence which also irritated people on the tour.

His Caddy once told Moe that the hole was a driver and a wedge. Moe hit the wedge off the tee and then hit his driver onto the green.

During a West Coast tournament, a few tour players and a couple Tour Officials cornered Moe in the players locker room and totally ridiculed and demoralized the man. They made fun of his behavior, his teeth, and his clothing I guess it went on for over an hour.

Moe only had a few friends in the states, so he drove overnight to a friends house and showed up crying. He said they broke me.....and I'm never going back out there.

He quietly went back to Canada to the people who knew him and accepted him for who he was.

 

[Integrityrespec]

Calling whites racist could be considered hate speech if it meets the conditions of the act - it's public and is likely to lead to a breach of the peace. If I stir up a mob with incendiary remarks about white racists and point them to the nearest Knights of Columbus that might fit the Act's definition.

The answer lies in our common decency, or as Biden likes to quote Lincoln, our Bettter Angels. However nobody has the exact same standards and we at times must endure someones poor judgment of prejudices temporarily. It's way we have laws and rules and they are only as good as our citizenry is willing of their own choice to abide by them. When enough refuse to execute common decency, to follow by our rules and our laws we end up in chaos. The storming of the Capital was such an event. Just as was all the violence this summer by BLM and ANTIFA supporters. People chose to commit those acts willfully and knowing what their choices had consequences. They are responsible and nobody else. To the broader point on hate speech, I bet those people would tell you they were the victims of hate speech. Deplorables, racist, white supremacist, and a host of other similar type comments certainly could anger and make a person upset and maybe moved to take action. This is just the flip side of using words like the N word, or derogatory synonyms for gay, or foreigners or women.

 

[SheWolf]

Not providing financial support to a performer, isn't cancel culture. We have no responsibility to support their careers. We aren't depriving them of a right, or anything they have earned or are entitled to or any rights they have. I don't have to go see him, don't have to go buy a ticket to support him. I'm not on the other hand saying he has no right to practice his trade, or for you to pay to go see him. The difference is the idea that you would cancel someones rights or something they earned. Like, students at Harvard wanting the University to remove a diploma that someone paid for and earned. The idea that someone such as those that worked in the Trump administration should not be allowed a job in the future because they worked in the Trump administration is cancel culture. The desire to cancel out a persons rights because you don't think they deserve them because you disagree is a direct affront to our Constitutional freedom. Now sure people have the right to suggest such things, it's free speech but it's also fundamentally wrong.

Boycotting and shutting down the Ground Zero Mosque had nothing to do with ticket sales. You people quickly forget facts and have no damn honesty.

If you violate the rules of this platform and get a permanent ban, your rights haven’t been canceled. There is a process to disbar lawyers who act ethically, a process of stripping titles and honors including diplomas.

The right wing is actually suffering from mass ignorance as to what freedom of speech means. Boycotting is legal. Freedom of associate is included in freedom of speech. The constitution doesn’t care about your feelings. It’s not a matter of disassociating from people you don’t like good, and disassociating from people you do like bad. Harvey Weinstein has lost a ton of honors because he is a convicted rapist now, and that shouldn’t come as a shock. It doesn’t matter if you think he earned those honors, invested time, money, etc., the members of boards and title associations have the right to distance themselves from him. That’s how freedom of association works.

 

[Integrityrespec]

Moe was certainly a odd ball in comparison to the Tour players. He had very bad teeth and wore mismatched clothing, but he was also a loveable kind of guy who thought the fans deserved a little entertainment. Moe loved making it fun. Moe also loved kids, and would do tricks for them during a tournament which pissed off the other pro's.

He would hit golf balls off the tee on top of Coke bottles for the fans and never break a bottle.

If another player in his pairing was excessively slow, Moe would lay down in the fairway and pretend he was sleeping to get a rise out of the gallery.

He repeated himself a lot with every sentence which also irritated people on the tour.

His Caddy once told Moe that the hole was a driver and a wedge. Moe hit the wedge off the tee and then hit his driver onto the green.

During a West Coast tournament, a few tour players and a couple Tour Officials cornered Moe in the players locker room and totally ridiculed and demoralized the man. They made fun of his behavior, his teeth, and his clothing I guess it went on for over an hour.

Moe only had a few friends in the states, so he drove overnight to a friends house and showed up crying. He said they broke me.....and I'm never going back out there.

He quietly went back to Canada to the people who knew him and accepted him for who he was.

I'd say Moe was a victim of bullies and that's a shame and I can sympathize. I imagine most of us at some point were bullied by older or bigger kids or even adults for some reason. Sounds like Moe caused a little of his own torment. The PGA has rules of decorum and he should have adhered to it a well as he could. Small exceptions are usually accorded to people but repeat offenses get a bit tiresome. Still people should not go beyond proper boundaries.