boy those terrorists sure are easy to negotiate with!! (1 Viewer)

[ProudAmerican]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,191967,00.html

I thought Israel gave up ground in order to stop this type of thing?

so much for apeasement.

 

[My_name_is_not_Larry]

The fighting will never stop no matter what either side my do.

 

[cherokee]

Israel tried and it was the hamas who wrecked it so the hell with them.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by ProudAmerican:
I thought Israel gave up ground in order to stop this type of thing?

so much for apeasement.

I noticed that the link you provided didn't spend any effort into the story of all those Palestinians that are in Israeli prisons. If that is the bone of contention for these psycho-bombers, why didn't your source ask some basic questions or provide some basic answers, in this area:

• Why are they there?
• What is the issue regarding each of the prisoners?
• Are there some there that perhaps, shouldn't be there?
• Are there some there, that HAVE to be there?
• Are any of them political prisoners?
• Have any of them been tortured?
• Have any of them been denied "due process of law"?
• Has Israel violated International Law relating to any of these prisoners?

Your source goes on to say that the Palestinian President Abbas "condemned the bombings" and said the government "must do everything it can" to prevent them in the future. It also says that Hamas merely said "Israel needs to feel what the Palestinians feel", they didn't claim responsibility for it. So Israel has no right to hold them responsible for it (unless they have proof that Hamas was complicit in the bombing). Although I personnally object to the Hamas statement, I don't think enough effort is being done to hear the Palestinian side of the problem.

Just like us with al Qaeda, Israel needs to address all the Palestinian issues that do not conflict with their national security. Anything less is proof that they really don't care to solve the problem. Which is something you happen to be well versed in. You will always have problems as long as you continue to think that it is all them and none you. It could be 90% them and 10% you, but until you address that 10%, the problem will not go away. On this particular issue, your source addressed 2% of that 10% . No wonder you quoted it. You relate to it.

Originally posted by Cherokee:
Israel tried and it was the hamas who wrecked it so the hell with them.

You remind me of the Scarecrow in the Wizard of Oz.

Hamas didn't do the bombing. How would you like it if I said, "All Injun's are drunks!" Maybe you should think before you generalize?

Originally posted by My_name_is_not_Larry:
The fighting will never stop no matter what either side my do.

Apathy, is for cowards!

 

[jfuh]

War on terrorism. If any proof needs to remain that going to war with an ideology doesn't work, look no further then with Israel. For if fighting with it works, Israel should be the safest place in the world.
You can not fight an ideology head on with gunships and tanks, only by searching into your own faults and causes can you resolve the issue.
Israel though is not a simple problem at all, it's more than just fighting terrorism.
I think I'll leave Israel up to our resident Israeli to talk about that.

 

[alphamale]

War on terrorism. If any proof needs to remain that going to war with an ideology doesn't work, look no further then with Israel. For if fighting with it works, Israel should be the safest place in the world.
You can not fight an ideology head on with gunships and tanks, only by searching into your own faults and causes can you resolve the issue.
Israel though is not a simple problem at all, it's more than just fighting terrorism.
I think I'll leave Israel up to our resident Israeli to talk about that.

That's a nice post Jfuh, and this sure is a nice day! :mrgreen:

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by alphamale
That's a nice post Jfuh, and this sure is a nice day!

I think I like you better when you were combative and confrontational.

 

[ProudAmerican]

I noticed that the link you provided didn't spend any effort into the story of all those Palestinians that are in Israeli prisons.

whats that got to do with the fact that the terrorists said give up land and we will stop killing you, and the other side gave up land, and is still being killed?

all I have heard from the terrorists is that this entire conflict is about LAND. not prisoners.

the link shows that when you appease, you lose.

 

[DivineComedy]

Just like us with al Qaeda, Israel needs to address all the Palestinian issues that do not conflict with their national security. Anything less is proof that they really don't care to solve the problem.

You remind me of the Scarecrow in the Wizard of Oz.

Hamas didn't do the bombing. How would you like it if I said, "All Injun's are drunks!" Maybe you should think before you generalize?

Like addressing the endless lukewarm “liberal” arts of war known as “containment,” which would allow us to remove troops from Saudi Arabia, by removing the UN resolution violating terrorist supporting PROBLEM Saddam who said of Al Quacka that “They should, rather, be reassured and helped to save themselves, and their surroundings.” (Saddam Hussein Shabban 13, 1422 H. October 29, 2001.)

Anything less is proof that those like you and the United Nations (of tyrants too) didn’t care to solve the problem, right?

You said in response to Cherokee saying, “Israel tried and it was the hamas who wrecked it so the hell with them:“

“You remind me of the Scarecrow in the Wizard of Oz.

Hamas didn't do the bombing. How would you like it if I said, ‘All Injun's are drunks!’ Maybe you should think before you generalize?”

Duh! All terrorists are terrorists!

Put a flashlight up to your ear, because the scarecrow wasn’t as stupid as an encephalic moron.

 

[cherokee]

You remind me of the Scarecrow in the Wizard of Oz.
Hamas didn't do the bombing. How would you like it if I said, "All Injun's are drunks!" Maybe you should think before you generalize?

Maybe you should read more.

The Hamas described the attack as an act of self-defense.

Yep billo you’re right again.
Those nine people killed where apart of a secret military group who launched attacks against the poor, poor Palestine people....:roll:

yes I’m sorry but I do generalize terrorist groups. So my first statement still stands
‘The hell with them.”

What I find as funny is that with all the Arabs brothers and sisters in the Muslim world who constantly whine about the poor Palestine people do nothing to help them…
Its funny cause its only when the evil USA and Israel cut funding does the government run out of money…

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by Cherokee:
Maybe you should read more.

The Hamas described the attack as an act of self-defense.

Yep billo you’re right again.
Those nine people killed where apart of a secret military group who launched attacks against the poor, poor Palestine people....

yes I’m sorry but I do generalize terrorist groups. So my first statement still stands
‘The hell with them.”

What I find as funny is that with all the Arabs brothers and sisters in the Muslim world who constantly whine about the poor Palestine people do nothing to help them…
Its funny cause its only when the evil USA and Israel cut funding does the government run out of money…

Since you obviously have the wisdom to know better, you do yourself a dis-service when you choose be short-sighted. You bring up a very good, valid point regarding the Muslim world not walking their talk when it comes to helping the Palestinians when they are in financial need. But then follow that with, "The hell with them", knowing full well there is more to the story than that. And you do know. But for whatever reason, you choose not to deal with that.

What the Palestinians are going through is not much different than what Native Americans have gone through in this country. With the exception that Native Americans chose casino's instead of terrorism to get back at "whitey". Which was a good choice, because I suck at Black Jack!

 

[jfuh]

Like addressing the endless lukewarm “liberal” arts of war known as “containment,” which would allow us to remove troops from Saudi Arabia, by removing the UN resolution violating terrorist supporting PROBLEM Saddam who said of Al Quacka that “They should, rather, be reassured and helped to save themselves, and their surroundings.” (Saddam Hussein Shabban 13, 1422 H. October 29, 2001.)

Anything less is proof that those like you and the United Nations (of tyrants too) didn’t care to solve the problem, right?

You said in response to Cherokee saying, “Israel tried and it was the hamas who wrecked it so the hell with them:“

“You remind me of the Scarecrow in the Wizard of Oz.

Hamas didn't do the bombing. How would you like it if I said, ‘All Injun's are drunks!’ Maybe you should think before you generalize?”

Duh! All terrorists are terrorists!

Put a flashlight up to your ear, because the scarecrow wasn’t as stupid as an encephalic moron.

Containment is a liberal art? Really? Worked pretty well against the soviets and not a single damn shot was fired either.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by DivineComedy:
Duh! All terrorists are terrorists!

And people are innocent until proven guilty. Not accused guilty!

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by ProudAmerican:
whats that got to do with the fact that the terrorists said give up land and we will stop killing you, and the other side gave up land, and is still being killed?

In a video released by Islamic Jihad, which is believed to be funded in part by Iran and refuses to observe a cease-fire, Hamada said the bombing was dedicated to the thousands of Palestinian prisoners in Israeli jails.

That's a direct quote from YOUR link. Why do you choose to ignore what is said? It's more convenient not to deal with it, isn't it?

Originally posted by ProudAmerican:
all I have heard from the terrorists is that this entire conflict is about LAND. not prisoners.

In a video released by Islamic Jihad, which is believed to be funded in part by Iran and refuses to observe a cease-fire, Hamada said the bombing was dedicated to the thousands of Palestinian prisoners in Israeli jails.

Catch the clue?

Originally posted by ProudAmerican:
the link shows that when you appease, you lose.

You should realize, it's only your choice to be a loser.

 

[ProudAmerican]

Billo,

MY POINT WAS THAT WHEN YOU GIVE UP LAND, THEN THE TERRORISTS WILL SIMPLY FIND ANOTHER REASON TO BLOW YOU UP.

your point about the prisoners only further proves me right.

apeasement doesnt work.

 

[alphamale]

I think I like you better when you were combative and confrontational.

Yeah, but I'm nice now, and I think everybody's opinions are terrific! Have a nice day! :mrgreen:

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by alphamale:
Yeah, but I'm nice now, and I think everybody's opinions are terrific! Have a nice day!

Hey, you do the same.

I just had a thought, does this mean you are now the "deltamale?"

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by ProudAmerican:
Billo,

MY POINT WAS THAT WHEN YOU GIVE UP LAND, THEN THE TERRORISTS WILL SIMPLY FIND ANOTHER REASON TO BLOW YOU UP.

your point about the prisoners only further proves me right.

apeasement doesnt work.

I understand your point. In some respect, I agree with it. If you set a precedent caving into fanatics, you're in for trouble. The only choice is to stand up to nuts that commit mass crimes.

My point is more with the "why", after you gave them their land, they "still" want to blow you up? To me, that sounds like there is something else on the table that needs to be addressed. Now, if it turns out they do investigate the situation regarding all those prisoners and it is determined that they all committed crimes and are where they are supposed to be, then so be it. Those that resent their incarceration, are going to have to deal with it. If they have gone through "due process of law" and the law has decided they need to pay their debt to society, they stay in jail. But at least at that point, you know you did everything you could do to solve the problem.

And we are not there yet!

 

[DivineComedy]

And people are innocent until proven guilty. Not accused guilty!

I am sorry but no Psi Corp's teeps are available for scanning. Therefore, we will have to do this war the old-fashioned way, and just take them at their word, so we are not accusing anyone. Since Hamas “soldiers” are Palestinian and wear a civilian uniform, therefore, the only thing that needs to be proven is that the target is Palestinian and it is in civilian clothes. We can ask them if they are Palestinian; if they say “no” we deport them, if they say “yes” we shoot the civilian clothed Hamas suicide bomber before it explodes and harms innocent civilians.

 

[cherokee]

Since you obviously have the wisdom to know better, you do yourself a dis-service when you choose be short-sighted. You bring up a very good, valid point regarding the Muslim world not walking their talk when it comes to helping the Palestinians when they are in financial need. But then follow that with, "The hell with them", knowing full well there is more to the story than that. And you do know. But for whatever reason, you choose not to deal with that.

What the Palestinians are going through is not much different than what Native Americans have gone through in this country. With the exception that Native Americans chose casino's instead of terrorism to get back at "whitey". Which was a good choice, because I suck at Black Jack!

Short sighted? Yea right…. whatever…you justify the suicide bomber any damn way you wish. I really don’t care.

The Palestine people chose to elect a terrorist group to govern them so again THE HELL WITH THEM! Better yet To hell with any damn jacka$$ who thinks suicide bombings are justified. I dont give a damn about any of them. The truth is they can all starve for all I care. If they wanted peace all they had to do was talk.............

You dare compare Native Americans to the Palestine’s?
We are nothing like those backwards a$$ SCUM!

oh and one last thing billo........

Billo_Really
And people are innocent until proven guilty. Not accused guilty!

You condemn our troops at the drop of a dime and yet afford these terrorists scum with rights…......:roll:

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by Cherokee:
Short sighted? Yea right…. whatever…you justify the suicide bomber any damn way you wish. I really don’t care.

The Palestine people chose to elect a terrorist group to govern them so again THE HELL WITH THEM! Better yet To hell with any damn jacka$$ who thinks suicide bombings are justified. I dont give a damn about any of them. The truth is they can all starve for all I care. If they wanted peace all they had to do was talk.............

You dare compare Native Americans to the Palestine’s?
We are nothing like those backwards a$$ SCUM!

oh and one last thing billo........

Why don't you show me a post of mine that has justified suicide bombings? Go ahead, I'll wait!

Originally posted by Cherokee:
You condemn our troops at the drop of a dime and yet afford these terrorists scum with rights…......

This goes way beyond a drop of a dime.

US OBLIGATIONS UNDER THE CONVENTION WITH RESPECT TO DETAINEES HELD IN THE CONTEXT OF THE "WAR ON TERROR"

1. General supplementary observations on definitions of torture and use of torture under interrogation, including deaths in custody (Articles 1 and 16)

Evidence continues to emerge of widespread torture and other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment of detainees held in US custody in Afghanistan, Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, Iraq and other locations. While the government continues to assert that abuses resulted for the most part from the actions of a few "aberrant" soldiers and lack of oversight, there is clear evidence that much of the ill-treatment has stemmed directly from officially santioned procedures and policies, including interrogation techniques approved by Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld for use in Guantánamo and later exported to Iraq.(2) While it seems that some practices, such as "waterboarding", were reserved for high value detainees, others appear to have been routinely applied during detentions and interrogations in Afghanistan, Guantánamo and Iraq. The latter include hooding, stripping and shackling of detainees in painful positions as well as using military dogs to intimidate blindfolded detainees; prolonged isolation, deprivation of food and sleep and exposure to extremes of temperature also appear to have been common practice to punish detainees for failing to cooperate or to "soften them up" for interrogation. (3)

http://www.amnestyusa.org/us/document.do?id=ENGAMR510612006

Have you found a post of mine justified the bombings? Well, keep looking, it'll give you something to do instead shooting your god-damn mouth off! I'll just hang out here while you look.

Now, buck up!

 

[Tashah]

Moderator's Warning:

This is just a verbal request for everyone to tone down any offensive rhetoric and resume the debate.

 

[cherokee]

whats the matter billboy?
Did the little wanker get pi$$ed off?........:lamo

 

[Bergslagstroll]

Billo,

MY POINT WAS THAT WHEN YOU GIVE UP LAND, THEN THE TERRORISTS WILL SIMPLY FIND ANOTHER REASON TO BLOW YOU UP.

your point about the prisoners only further proves me right.

apeasement doesnt work.

Can you give me any proof of that any terrorist group have said just give us Gaza strip and we will stop fighting you? Have any other palestinien group said that they settled with the Gaza strip?

Because yes it is a good thing that Gaza is handed over to the palestines, but at the same time the area is overcrowded and there are still big problems to be solved like water rights.

Also at the same time the big problem is and has always been the West Bank. Because at Gaza you hade around 10000 isralies occupants that now have been moved. But at the westbank you got 3 hundredthousand occupants that take up the best land. At the same time as the situation for the palestines is getting worse not better. (There live over 2 million palestines there)

You can just look at this maps:

First this little Gaza strip that is now in palestines controll compared to the much larger westbank:
http://www.universes-in-universe.de/islam/eng/archiv/ps/map.html

And here is the situation in the west bank:

http://www.ccmep.org/delegations/maps/palestine.html

So it's just silly to say that land no longer is a issue....

 

[MSgt]

Can you give me any proof of that any terrorist group have said just give us Gaza strip and we will stop fighting you? Have any other palestinien group said that they settled with the Gaza strip?

Because yes it is a good thing that Gaza is handed over to the palestines, but at the same time the area is overcrowded and there are still big problems to be solved like water rights.

Also at the same time the big problem is and has always been the West Bank. Because at Gaza you hade around 10000 isralies occupants that now have been moved. But at the westbank you got 3 hundredthousand occupants that take up the best land. At the same time as the situation for the palestines is getting worse not better. (There live over 2 million palestines there)

You can just look at this maps:

First this little Gaza strip that is now in palestines controll compared to the much larger westbank:
http://www.universes-in-universe.de/islam/eng/archiv/ps/map.html

And here is the situation in the west bank:

http://www.ccmep.org/delegations/maps/palestine.html

So it's just silly to say that land no longer is a issue....

What's silly is how people actually think that Radicals will ever be satisfied with what they have. I've said it before, "They do not want peace, they only want their peace." Even if they ever get that peace, they won't be satisfied. We have an entire region and civilization that proves it. The only peace that exists within most all Islamic countries is forced through oppression. Otherwise, all we see is ethnic cleansings, sectorial fighting, and murder. Of course, we're supposed to dismiss all of this because as we've been told by numerous self-appointed experts - it's their culture. If this is the rationale for us to turn a blind eye, then we are successfully encouraging hate, racism, and bigotry. And in such a civilization (and certainly there are other contributing factors) terrorism is always the product.

In "Palestine" we have steadily witnessed over the past 10 years a steady increase in suicide bombers. This means that their Radical element has been traveling the path of the "Apocalyptic." They no longer care about creating a prosperous life with Israel, nor are they looking for any sort of land appeasement. They have abandoned the notion of creating a "Palestinian" state and now only seek to destroy another civilization with complete disregard that the failures of their society is a direct result of choosing to fight a losing battle instead of rolling up their sleeves and prospering along side Israelis.

The Muslim world started a war in 1949 for the Palestinian people (of who they cared nothing about prior to the "Zions" showing up and really still don't to this day) and they have all been on the losing end ever since. Today the Palestinian/Israeli conflict is still being very much encouraged by Muslims elsewhere. Nothing has changed. Arabs and Persians are willing to destroy Israel to the very last drop of Palestinian blood.

The Palestinians are victims of their own people and of their own narrow minded and bigoted religion.