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Boulder shooter's brother says shooter was nutts. Time for gun restraining orders?

You'll want to be very careful about this. Put yourself in the situation. Some people believe that as soon as a friend or family member thinks you should not be able to do something, even a basic civil right, then that ought to have the force of law. What if, suddenly, your family members, no matter how estranged you are, are able to cut off access to your constitutional rights.

We build in civil liberty protections, especially for the mentally ill and/or otherwise disabled for a reason.
 
The number of ships is irrelevant. In the next major war we will see innovation that will almost certainly make what we currently have obsolete. Just like the aircraft carrier made the battle ship obsolete we may see the same thing with drones. Ships can be overwhelmed by thousands of simple drones that are nothing more than flying explosives. They can attack from the air as well as from the sea attaching to the hull and detonating. Unfortunately nobody knows what the deciding factor will be until the battle is over.
skeet and trap shooters will be recruited for drone patrol.
 
You'll want to be very careful about this. Put yourself in the situation. Some people believe that as soon as a friend or family member thinks you should not be able to do something, even a basic civil right, then that ought to have the force of law.

We build in civil liberty protections, especially for the mentally ill and/or otherwise disabled for a reason.
unfortunately the "we have to do something" sheeple and the politicians who manipulate them for less than wholesome reasons, ignore such things
 
unfortunately the "we have to do something" sheeple and the politicians who manipulate them for less than wholesome reasons, ignore such things

Well, it's often a sacrifice to the cause. A lot of liberals understand that they cannot do wholesale reforms that affect every American, so what they will do instead is argue that some people (i.e. the vulnerable in society) just don't deserve to have their constitutional rights, because they are "scary" (which, is kind of a holdover of eugenic philosophy and pro-institutionalization philosophy).

If you were to institute targeted reforms, you would have much more justification restricting the access of those who have committed violent acts in the past instead of tarring mentally ill people with a broad brush, most of whom are not violent and are in fact much more likely to be the victims of violence.
 
Colorado already has a red flag law.
For mental illness or domestic abuse or both?

For mental illness, is a psychiatric evaluation required?
 
The number of ships is irrelevant....

China doesn't seem to think so - and it's building more ships


...in the next major war we will see innovation that will almost certainly make what we currently have obsolete. Just like the aircraft carrier made the battle ship obsolete we may see the same thing with drones. Ships can be overwhelmed by thousands of simple drones that are nothing more than flying explosives. They can attack from the air as well as from the sea attaching to the hull and detonating. Unfortunately nobody knows what the deciding factor will be until the battle is over.

You may be right about a relatively small number of super-carriers which are just big targets

Better to have 20 small aircraft carriers - with say one squadron on each - that one $13 billion ship plus escort group.
 
For mental illness or domestic abuse or both?

For mental illness, is a psychiatric evaluation required?

I don't think there's a single state in which a person cannot get a domestic violence restraining order, and when one is issued, it becomes illegal under federal law for the subject of it to possess firearms.

CO's red flag law is triggered by a showing of a significant risk of causing personal injury to self or others. It's not limited to domestic situations or mental illness.
 
I don't think there's a single state in which a person cannot get a domestic violence restraining order, and when one is issued, it becomes illegal under federal law for the subject of it to possess firearms.

CO's red flag law is triggered by a showing of a significant risk of causing personal injury to self or others. It's not limited to domestic situations or mental illness.
Ah, then it's also a domestic abuse restraining order (can be used as such).

For due process, the danger needs to have substantiation or psychiatric diagnoses. This is just IMO, as I know many such laws do not require it.
 
The sad reality is they could fill the air with thousands right now for the price of a single smart bomb.

I don't think the future is for mass attack - though that will remain a tactic

The future is for smart munitions able to detect and avoid counter measures.
 
Ah, then it's also a domestic abuse restraining order (can be used as such).

For due process, the danger needs to have substantiation or psychiatric diagnoses. This is just IMO, as I know many such laws do not require it.

No, domestic abuse restraining orders have existed for a long time.

CO recently passed a red flag law. It is much broader, as I pointed out. The law doesn't require any evaluation. It just requires the person applying to convince the judge.
 
I don't think the future is for mass attack - though that will remain a tactic

The future is for smart munitions able to detect and avoid counter measures.
China could mass produce millions of drones and send them into a country shooting everything in sight eventually eventually self destructing with 1lb. of C4 taking out infrastructure could be devastating. The sad reality is a country like China could keep mass producing and sending them indefinitely.
 
No, domestic abuse restraining orders have existed for a long time.

CO recently passed a red flag law. It is much broader, as I pointed out. The law doesn't require any evaluation. It just requires the person applying to convince the judge.
I'm against those. There has to be due process. However I do believe in making it easier for family to have individuals involuntarily evaluated and/or committed. Even if it's only for 72 hrs.
 
China could mass produce millions of drones and send them into a country shooting everything in sight eventually eventually self destructing with 1lb. of C4 taking out infrastructure could be devastating. The sad reality is a country like China could keep mass producing and sending them indefinitely.

And do you have any idea of how that many drones can be remotely controlled ?
What is their range ?
How do they negotiate the curvature of the Earth ?


And no, China could not manufacture drones (the correct term is UAV) "indefinitely"
An ICBM still has far greater destructive potential

What technical/military experience do you have ?
 
And do you have any idea of how that many drones can be remotely controlled ?
What is their range ?
How do they negotiate the curvature of the Earth ?


And no, China could not manufacture drones (the correct term is UAV) "indefinitely"
An ICBM still has far greater destructive potential

What technical/military experience do you have ?
GPS along with being pre programmed would eliminate the need for an operator for each individual drone or UAV. Even with operators they could be sent in waves where one operator is sending hundreds or thousands from several locations. A single ICBM can do lots of damage and is a single target. We as well as China have shown we can target and take out missiles. Targeting moving objects as large as an ICBM is becoming easier thanks to computers and satellites. Plus the object is not to destroy vast sections of land making them uninhabitable for thousands of years. The object is to acquire the land and the resources. Not only that but ICBMs could contaminate the entire Northern hemisphere including their country.
 
I'm against those. There has to be due process. However I do believe in making it easier for family to have individuals involuntarily evaluated and/or committed. Even if it's only for 72 hrs.

I don't think anyone should be able to just walk in a police station and say hey my brothers crazy. The boulder shooter apparently started his paranoia and delusional (being followed by people) thinking back in 2016. His family looks to have been completely aware from that far back. Had they documented, it, approached a mental health professional to ask for advice on maybe how to approach him into getting help, Boulder might not have happened. Getting people with mental issues isn't simple, but it's not impossible. Even 48 hours could make a world of difference.
 
I don't think anyone should be able to just walk in a police station and say hey my brothers crazy. The boulder shooter apparently started his paranoia and delusional (being followed by people) thinking back in 2016. His family looks to have been completely aware from that far back. Had they documented, it, approached a mental health professional to ask for advice on maybe how to approach him into getting help, Boulder might not have happened. Getting people with mental issues isn't simple, but it's not impossible. Even 48 hours could make a world of difference.
You dont know that. Every state/county is different. Here in King Co. WA, a family tried for years to get the Cafe Racer shooter involuntarily committed. They called the police, they said he was dangerous but the legal bar for anything involuntary was too high.

*Now*, after 5 or 6 dead people in that shooting, the state/county paid attention and made some legal changes to make it easier for families but there are still medical privacy and other Const hurdles.

And if the Boukder shooter's family hadnt had guns, if he never talked about guns, etc. they wouldnt have raised a red flag there either. I dont know if we have that info yet. Alot of these shooters are into guns, we see it from their families or social media. I'm not sure what 48 hours difference would have made...what are you thinking of? This was a guy wound up by mental illness and bullying...it's hard to erase that damage.
 
You mean you once did ?

China now has a bigger navy in terms of number of active hulls, than the USA.
Than number is misleading since a large number of those are coastal and river "patrol" boats. Not much use in a true naval battle and very susceptible to aircraft fire. Look at tonnage, in that the US has them hands down and at the number of Aircraft Carriers, that's still the standard of naval power.
 
IF someone is dangerously nuts then a ban on them having guns isn't going to stop them from killing people.
We need to start with senile old politicians who fall up steps and don't know what city they are in most of the time.
 
If there is probable cause that someone is insane that individual should have a court ordered psychological evaluation. If that individual is found to be dangerously nuts then he should be locked up in a loony bin until cured. Not out freely roaming around waiting to explode.

As long as they can have their gun right?
 
You dont know that. Every state/county is different. Here in King Co. WA, a family tried for years to get the Cafe Racer shooter involuntarily committed. They called the police, they said he was dangerous but the legal bar for anything involuntary was too high.

*Now*, after 5 or 6 dead people in that shooting, the state/county paid attention and made some legal changes to make it easier for families but there are still medical privacy and other Const hurdles.

And if the Boukder shooter's family hadnt had guns, if he never talked about guns, etc. they wouldnt have raised a red flag there either. I dont know if we have that info yet. Alot of these shooters are into guns, we see it from their families or social media. I'm not sure what 48 hours difference would have made...what are you thinking of? This was a guy wound up by mental illness and bullying...it's hard to erase that damage.

I'm talking present time, not years back though. 48 hours can get a lot of conversations had, which could show the person isn't mentally sound and hope that they agree to treatment.

According to his sister in law he was messing around with some gun (she said looked like a machine gun) a couple of days before the shooting and it freaked some of them out.

So what I do know is that if someone makes an effort to keep diligent on finding someone help it's 100% better than ignoring it, then telling police well, yeah he'd been unstable for years when they're doing a body count.
 
I'm talking present time, not years back though. 48 hours can get a lot of conversations had, which could show the person isn't mentally sound and hope that they agree to treatment.
And if not?

According to his sister in law he was messing around with some gun (she said looked like a machine gun) a couple of days before the shooting and it freaked some of them out.
If he had a history of mental illness, which they said was known, they should have gone to the police.

So what I do know is that if someone makes an effort to keep diligent on finding someone help it's 100% better than ignoring it, then telling police well, yeah he'd been unstable for years when they're doing a body count.
I think that's good on the level that it creates a record and hopefully leads to a better profile of these POS losers, helping to better identify them. They can be questioned without violating their rights.
 
We need to start with senile old politicians who fall up steps and don't know what city they are in most of the time.
Biden is not dangerous. It is the people pulling the strings that are dangerous.
 
And if not?

Obviously it's no guarantee but it beats doing nothing. It could be a first step to many.

If he had a history of mental illness, which they said was known, they should have gone to the police.

I agree. Now they've lost their son/brother and 10 peoples family and friends have lost as well.

I think that's good on the level that it creates a record and hopefully leads to a better profile of these POS losers, helping to better identify them. They can be questioned without violating their rights.

Agree 100%
 
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