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Both Parties Shift to the Extremes

Carjosse

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The other day I found this interesting video form Vox about George HW Bush, and how his loss to Clinton sparked the Republicans move to the right and away from bipartisanism.


Ironically I think Hillary Clinton's loss to Trump is now causing a very similar shift to the left in the Democrats. Basically the extreme wings of each party have taken control in response to perceived losses and failings of moderates of both parties. Though occasionally you hear news that Republicans like Romney are trying to revive that more moderate faction of the Republicans.
 

DDD

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You just need more centrists to moderate the two parties.
 

Carjosse

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You just need more centrists to moderate the two parties.

Why would they go back to centrism when the extremes seem to give them much better results?
 

Gaugingcatenate

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You just need more centrists to moderate the two parties.

Republicans already went too far that direction, had far too many jelly fish spined moderates that far too much centralized the parties and thus the nation.

Rather, need states to start taking back their rightful sovereignty, that which was/is theirs and that which is ours as individuals.
 

Phys251

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The other day I found this interesting video form Vox about George HW Bush, and how his loss to Clinton sparked the Republicans move to the right and away from bipartisanism.

Ironically I think Hillary Clinton's loss to Trump is now causing a very similar shift to the left in the Democrats. Basically the extreme wings of each party have taken control in response to perceived losses and failings of moderates of both parties. Though occasionally you hear news that Republicans like Romney are trying to revive that more moderate faction of the Republicans.

Why would they go back to centrism when the extremes seem to give them much better results?

Oh god. Where to begin.

1. Progressive taxes, support for education, socialized healthcare, etc. are not far-left ideas. Not even close. Those are just mainstream left. Come back to me when there's a sizable contingency within the Democratic party that wants to roll out the guillotines.

2. Progressives have not been nearly as successful of taking over the Democratic party as the far-right has been of the Republican party. They like to cherry-pick examples such as the rise of Ocasio-Cortez, but the fact is that she primaried a mainstream Democrat in a very liberal district. Of the 40+ House seats that flipped to Democratic this election cycle, not one of them was endorsed by the Justice Democrats or Our Revolution.

3. Democracy is central to the progressives' platform. They want to expand the voice of the people via voting rights and civic engagement, not suppress it as the far-right wants to do. They recognize that if they're going to become a sizable political force, they are going to have to do so by lifting people up, not beating them down.
 

Phys251

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Republicans already went too far that direction, had far too many jelly fish spined moderates that far too much centralized the parties and thus the nation.

Rather, need states to start taking back their rightful sovereignty, that which was/is theirs and that which is ours as individuals.

The Fourteenth Amendment nerfed states' powers hard.
 

Phys251

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Agreed. The imposter amendment.
:lamo

If Southern states had not been stupid enough to secede, then that amendment might have never passed! Amazing how the Civil War led us to the most progressive back-to-back-to-back amendments since the Bill of Rights, isn't it? :)
 

DDD

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Republicans already went too far that direction, had far too many jelly fish spined moderates that far too much centralized the parties and thus the nation.

Rather, need states to start taking back their rightful sovereignty, that which was/is theirs and that which is ours as individuals.

Why would they go back to centrism when the extremes seem to give them much better results?

If both liberal democrats and conservative republican parties go into the extremes, then, my concern is that they may literally split the USA. To moderate that you need the "jelly fish" centrists.
 

Gaugingcatenate

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:lamo

If Southern states had not been stupid enough to secede, then that amendment might have never passed! Amazing how the Civil War led us to the most progressive back-to-back-to-back amendments since the Bill of Rights, isn't it? :)
But that they had the examples of MLK, jr and Gandhi then.

Just non-violently refuse to comply with the federal laws with which your state disagrees. Slavery was dying with the advent of very cheap European labor and mechanization, there was absolutely no moral nor economic reason/advantage to continue such a heinous system as provided by the Southern Democrats.

Lotta Lincoln Party, the GOP, lives lost in exchange for some great amendments... and that imposter 14th amendment. As interpreted its had its advantages and disadvantages... the good mainly past, the bad mainly in the present.

Progressive does not equate to good generally, just feel good.
 

Phys251

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But that they had the examples of MLK, jr and Gandhi then.

Just non-violently refuse to comply with the federal laws with which your state disagrees. Slavery was dying with the advent of very cheap European labor and mechanization, there was absolutely no moral nor economic reason/advantage to continue such a heinous system as provided by the Southern Democrats.

Lotta Lincoln Party, the GOP, lives lost in exchange for some great amendments... and that imposter 14th amendment. As interpreted its had its advantages and disadvantages... the good mainly past, the bad mainly in the present.

Progressive does not equate to good generally, just feel good.

what+did+liberals+do.jpg
 

Moderate Right

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The other day I found this interesting video form Vox about George HW Bush, and how his loss to Clinton sparked the Republicans move to the right and away from bipartisanism.


Ironically I think Hillary Clinton's loss to Trump is now causing a very similar shift to the left in the Democrats. Basically the extreme wings of each party have taken control in response to perceived losses and failings of moderates of both parties. Though occasionally you hear news that Republicans like Romney are trying to revive that more moderate faction of the Republicans.

Yup. The right moved farther to the right first and I guess in response to that some (now many) on the Democratic side have moved farther to the left. It's been several years now where both sides have eaten their own and thrown moderates out of their respective parties, leaving more of the extremes on both sides. We have basically turned into a four party system, with both sides having two main factions - moderates and extremists, fighting it out to see who wins.
 

Lord of Planar

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The other day I found this interesting video form Vox about George HW Bush, and how his loss to Clinton sparked the Republicans move to the right and away from bipartisanism.


Ironically I think Hillary Clinton's loss to Trump is now causing a very similar shift to the left in the Democrats. Basically the extreme wings of each party have taken control in response to perceived losses and failings of moderates of both parties. Though occasionally you hear news that Republicans like Romney are trying to revive that more moderate faction of the Republicans.
Bush (41) lost because of Ross Perot. If we decided a president by popular vote, and had runoff elections requiring a 50%+1 to win, I'm all but certain Bush (41) would have had two terms.
 

Gaugingcatenate

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If both liberal democrats and conservative republican parties go into the extremes, then, my concern is that they may literally split the USA. To moderate that you need the "jelly fish" centrists.
Or we need the split.

Issues like, say, abortion, are simply unresolvable between the two sides at the current juncture. Maybe let economic powerhouse state Cali secede, all the electoral votes necessary for continued victory for the right would then be secure.

Then we could watch as Cali slides down, drowns under the economic stresses of their socialistic policy decisions. Beg to come back in.

You know, verifiably understand their horribly myopic dystopia first.
 

Perotista

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The other day I found this interesting video form Vox about George HW Bush, and how his loss to Clinton sparked the Republicans move to the right and away from bipartisanism.


Ironically I think Hillary Clinton's loss to Trump is now causing a very similar shift to the left in the Democrats. Basically the extreme wings of each party have taken control in response to perceived losses and failings of moderates of both parties. Though occasionally you hear news that Republicans like Romney are trying to revive that more moderate faction of the Republicans.

Actually, I think the moves further left and right was happened when the Republican shed their liberal wing, the old Rockefeller Republicans of the northeast and the Democrats shed their conservative wing, the solid Democratic south. Then both began trying to get rid of their moderates which noting the rise in independents, both parties have succeeded.
 

Perotista

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You just need more centrists to moderate the two parties.

that's not going to happen. Those in the center, the center, center right and center left have abandoned the two major parties due to the fact both have gone to the extremes. You see this in the rise of independents from 30% in 2005 to 43% today. Those who affiliated with the democratic party has fallen from 36% of the electorate down to 30% today. The Republican's share has gone down from 32% to 26% today.
 

MTAtech

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The other day I found this interesting video form Vox about George HW Bush, and how his loss to Clinton sparked the Republicans move to the right and away from bipartisanism.


Ironically I think Hillary Clinton's loss to Trump is now causing a very similar shift to the left in the Democrats. Basically the extreme wings of each party have taken control in response to perceived losses and failings of moderates of both parties. Though occasionally you hear news that Republicans like Romney are trying to revive that more moderate faction of the Republicans.
It all matters what you call "extreme."

Pundits are quick to label people like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s victory as radicalization of the Democratic party. Democrat "extremists" policy positions seem to revolve around Medicare for All and a federal job guarantee.

This is how I see it: the policy ideas are definitely bold, and you can make some substantive arguments against them. But they aren’t crazy. By contrast, the ideas of Tea Party Republicans are crazy; in fact, Ocasio-Cortez’s policy positions are a lot more sensible than those of the Republican mainstream, let alone the GOP’s more radical members.

As an example, Republican Congressman Dave Brat, favors a constitutional amendment forcing a balanced budget every year, which 96% of economists think is a really bad idea. So, about Ocasio-Cortez’s positions: Medicare for all is a deliberately ambiguous phrase, but in practice probably wouldn’t mean pushing everyone into a single-payer system. Instead, it would mean allowing individuals and employers to buy into Medicare – basically a big public option. That’s really not radical at all.
 

MTAtech

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Yeah, you are never gonna sell me with that poster boy.

Oh...

Keep your greasy grimy, undeserving and selfish fingers off taking credit for what MY party, the GOP, did. Suck it up and take the blame for what yours did.

Yano?
Lincoln's Republican Party was the liberal party in 1865. That wasn't your party. The way I read that poster, I don't see the word "Republican" anywhere on it. It says "liberal," and it is correct. Liberals ended slavery in America and gave women and blacks the right to vote. The same goes for Social Security and Medicare. Conservatives DID oppose them at every step.
 

Phys251

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Yeah, you are never gonna sell me with that poster boy.

Oh...

Keep your greasy grimy, undeserving and selfish fingers off taking credit for what MY party, the GOP, did. Suck it up and take the blame for what yours did.

Yano?
:lamo

I love it. You are completely unable to refute anything the meme said, so you go straight to childish insults.

Thank you for making my point for me! :thumbs:
 

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I loved to know how one comes to the conclusion the republicans have moved more far right since the 90s. I can name like 20 mainline democratic positions that have changed since 1990s. In terms of the Republicans, what a divide on free trade between nationalist and internationalist lines?

I don't need a comprehensive list. Just an example or two would be very helpful….
 

MTAtech

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I loved to know how one comes to the conclusion the republicans have moved more far right since the 90s. I can name like 20 mainline democratic positions that have changed since 1990s. In terms of the Republicans, what a divide on free trade between nationalist and internationalist lines?

I don't need a comprehensive list. Just an example or two would be very helpful….
The G.O.P. wasn’t always an anti-environment, anti-science party. George H.W. Bush introduced the cap-and-trade program that largely controlled the problem of acid rain. As late as 2008, John McCain called for a similar program to limit emissions of the greenhouse gases that cause global warming. Today, Republican orthodoxy demands that their members must be climate change deniers.
 

Lord of Planar

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Or we need the split.

Issues like, say, abortion, are simply unresolvable between the two sides at the current juncture. Maybe let economic powerhouse state Cali secede, all the electoral votes necessary for continued victory for the right would then be secure.

Then we could watch as Cali slides down, drowns under the economic stresses of their socialistic policy decisions. Beg to come back in.

You know, verifiably understand their horribly myopic dystopia first.

What we need to to live by the intent of the 10th amendment instead of an all powerful fed.
 

Gaugingcatenate

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Lincoln's Republican Party was the liberal party in 1865. That wasn't your party. The way I read that poster, I don't see the word "Republican" anywhere on it. It says "liberal," and it is correct. Liberals ended slavery in America and gave women and blacks the right to vote. The same goes for Social Security and Medicare. Conservatives DID oppose them at every step.
Yeah, nice try.

Take off and take your sorry, earned history with ya. Yes, we, the GOP, are the party of Classical liberals, Washington to Lincoln to Reagan forward, keep your ignorant of history paws off.
 

Gaugingcatenate

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:lamo

I love it. You are completely unable to refute anything the meme said, so you go straight to childish insults.

Thank you for making my point for me! :thumbs:
You made no point, you put up a picture, a disingenuous laughable picture and are trying to steal the better part of your party's own history and place it, unearned, on mine.

Suck it up man, don't shirk truth. We both know, or at least I know, what you are attempting, see the attempted too sly-by-half leftist Alinsky you are trying to pull.

Prove you are smart enough, own up to it. Or don't.

But you are certainly not getting away with that pure bulls***.
 
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