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Borrowing more money doesnt add to the deficit?

Imnukingfutz

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ABC News Reporter Calls Out Jay Carney During Tense Back-and-Forth Over Looming Obamacare Showdown | Video | TheBlaze.com

“Raising the debt ceiling doesn’t add a dime to the deficit,”

Sorry if I dont spell things correctly after reading & watching this statement from Jay Carney at the WH press briefing....I found it too hard to stop laughing.

How in the world can you borrow more money and not be further in debt?

Is this administration for real or is this just a really bad Saturday Night Live skit?
 
ABC News Reporter Calls Out Jay Carney During Tense Back-and-Forth Over Looming Obamacare Showdown | Video | TheBlaze.com



Sorry if I dont spell things correctly after reading & watching this statement from Jay Carney at the WH press briefing....I found it too hard to stop laughing.

How in the world can you borrow more money and not be further in debt?

Is this administration for real or is this just a really bad Saturday Night Live skit?
He's right it doesn't. It does give them opportunity to borrow more to reach the new limit which raises the debt. Which is the point. What is the point of having a debt ceiling if we are going to raise it every time we reach it?
 
How in the world can you borrow more money and not be further in debt?

Easy. You owe 100 bucks, and that loan is coming due. You cant pay, so you loan another 100 bucks, to pay the original loan. That means you still owe 100 bucks.
 
Easy. You owe 100 bucks, and that loan is coming due. You cant pay, so you loan another 100 bucks, to pay the original loan. That means you still owe 100 bucks.
How about you reach your credit limit you stop buying things you can't afford to buy.
 
How about you reach your credit limit you stop buying things you can't afford to buy.

Wups I actually missread what he said..... classic... I fell for exactly what the OP fell for... should have taken my coffee first I guess.. not totally awake :)

But Carney is still right.

Raising the debt ceiling does not add to the deficit, since they are two different things.
 
He's right it doesn't. It does give them opportunity to borrow more to reach the new limit which raises the debt. Which is the point. What is the point of having a debt ceiling if we are going to raise it every time we reach it?

Yep. It has become the debt floor. That is what happens when each new federal "budget" contains more spending than revenue.
 
Wups I actually missread what he said..... classic... I fell for exactly what the OP fell for... should have taken my coffee first I guess.. not totally awake :)

But Carney is still right.

Raising the debt ceiling does not add to the deficit, since they are two different things.
If you don't intend to, or have a need to borrow more money, there's absolutely no reason to raise the ceiling.
 
If you don't intend to, or have a need to borrow more money, there's absolutely no reason to raise the ceiling.

Problem is that due to your massive deficit, you need to borrow money, hence the debt ceiling needs raising. There is no way in hell you can over night cut the deficit, especially as long as you have the House GOP Tea Party morons in key power positions and are unwilling to compromise on anything Obama has touched.

So like it or not, the deficit is falling and will most likely continue to fall, but if you dont raise the debt ceiling then the country will default on its debt.. which aint exactly a good thing.
 
Problem is that due to your massive deficit, you need to borrow money, hence the debt ceiling needs raising. There is no way in hell you can over night cut the deficit, especially as long as you have the House GOP Tea Party morons in key power positions and are unwilling to compromise on anything Obama has touched.
Pete, this little scenario has been repeated for decades. I don't know how you can characterize anybody as "morons" when they happen to notice that during those decades nothing significant has been done to reduce spending. Without reducing spending it is guaranteed that raising the debt ceiling will be repeated for decades to come or until the rest of the world decides it's no longer in their best interests to subsidize the US. Rather than address entitlement spending, the Obama administration has doubled down on it by adding yet another huge entitlement we all know we can't possibly afford.

So like it or not, the deficit is falling and will most likely continue to fall, but if you dont raise the debt ceiling then the country will default on its debt.. which aint exactly a good thing.
No where is it stated that default is required. The question is where the money we have will be spent, and very few in political power are willing to admit that by cutting entitlement spending in areas where it is patently obvious it should be cut, we could make do with what we have. Default is only required if we don't cut such spending or raise the debt ceiling. Find a political operative on the left who is willing to stand up and admit that, and we might make some progress.
 
If you don't intend to, or have a need to borrow more money, there's absolutely no reason to raise the ceiling.

You just don't understand how our Government works, Hum.

obama press 4 for dp.jpg
 
Classic Obama...and why he cant be trusted any time he opens his mouth.

Raising the debt ceiling by itself does NOT add to the debt. Raising the debt ceiling ALLOWS the inevitable adding to the debt to occur. Both congress and the white house are complicit and corrupt.
 
Pete, this little scenario has been repeated for decades. I don't know how you can characterize anybody as "morons" when they happen to notice that during those decades nothing significant has been done to reduce spending. Without reducing spending it is guaranteed that raising the debt ceiling will be repeated for decades to come or until the rest of the world decides it's no longer in their best interests to subsidize the US. Rather than address entitlement spending, the Obama administration has doubled down on it by adding yet another huge entitlement we all know we can't possibly afford.

And it will continue to go on as long as both sides dont admit it is not the spending but themselves that are the problem. The so called entitlement problem is mostly partisan bull****. It is fraud and waste that is the problem and a nice chunk of that comes from Tea Party members as well, which makes them morons. That one of the first questions a freshman GOP Tea Party politician asked was "when will we get our healthcare covered".. shows how little they actually believe in their supposed views.

Because of the system as it is now, the Federal government is an ATM for politicians in local states. It is funny how especially the GOP types keep going on about state's rights and all that bull****, and with the other hand gladly accept billions in federal funding to balance budgets and keep their administrations running. If these guys were not morons, they would cut off all federal funding and going it alone.. but they know that this would either require massive cuts in their state or raising taxes.. in Texas case.. fees, which would be very unpopular.

Instead they use the Federal system as the big bad blame machine, complaining when there is not enough federal funding when their own funding comes up short, and at the same time complaining about overspending by the Federal system.

And at the same time they attack things like SS and Medicaid/care .. prime targets of the conservative right because it looks like socialism. They of course dont mention that successive GOP President (and yes Democrats as well) borrowed a huge chunk of money from SS which they cant pay back, and hence taking the SS system into trouble... and they also are against any and all attempts to fix the healthcare cost problem the US has, because it will hurt their political backers bottom line. Medicaid/care are only problems because of the private run healthcare systems pressing prices up and up... but instead they paint the whole cluster**** as Medicaid/cares faults.. classic right wing brainwashing.

No where is it stated that default is required.

No but it will happen if just one bill is not paid. And since you cant get enough money in to pay for what you are spending at the moment, then a default will happen. All it will take is some federal employee sueing for not getting paid.. and you are bankrupt.

The question is where the money we have will be spent, and very few in political power are willing to admit that by cutting entitlement spending in areas where it is patently obvious it should be cut, we could make do with what we have. Default is only required if we don't cut such spending or raise the debt ceiling. Find a political operative on the left who is willing to stand up and admit that, and we might make some progress.

We can go on and on debating this, but as long as the US right wing wont admit fully what the basic problems are, and the US left wont admit the same thing, then you are not going to get anywhere.

To fix this you need to means test SS, pay back all the money that was borrowed over the years and increase slightly the retirement age (although that will only increase unemployment but hey!) or even increase what people pay into the system. Point is, SS works and can work in the future. Making it private would be catastrophic, as we have seen in Chile.

To fix Medicaid/care you need to fix the whole healthcare problem.. it is private, expensive and highly inefficient. I am not saying Obamacare is a good or bad thing, but at least it is attempting to tackle the private run healthcare industry and hopefully bring down costs over time. Your healthcare system simply does not work as it should and it is about time Americans and especially the right, wake up and starting admitting this.. only then can you tackle the massive cost problems in the system, all of which have absolutely nothing to do with Medicaid/care. Plus yes, there could be cost savings in the programs.. like not giving 90 year olds cancer treatment and expensive end of life care.... it is their time.. let them go.

Taxes.. you need to actually collect the taxes that people should be paying.. especially the wealthy and corporations. Tackling avoidance and moving around of profits to avoid taxes must be stopped, not only in the US but world wide. It is pushing more and more of the tax burden on those that can barely afford to feed their families, where as the Paris Hiltons of the world can jet around snorting coke in a new country every day if they wanted.

Military spending.. a comprehensive review based on military needs not political bull**** is needed. Bases need closing world wide, and costs in procurement needs more transparency and accountability. There is no reason what so ever to pay 40k for a toilet seat just because it is on a sub.

There is plenty to tackle.. but as long as no one on both sides cant admit what the freaking problems are.. then well...
 
You just don't understand how our Government works, Hum.

View attachment 67153838
Good one, Bubba. Yeah. I'm obviously confused. Just because one has a credit card with a $100,000 limit doesn't mean that a responsible person would automatically spend that $100,000. I would note though, that a gang banger who stole a credit card with such a limit would spend it all immediately. That's not how government works, though.
 
Classic Obama...and why he cant be trusted any time he opens his mouth.

Raising the debt ceiling by itself does NOT add to the debt. Raising the debt ceiling ALLOWS the inevitable adding to the debt to occur. Both congress and the white house are complicit and corrupt.

Right ... Oama flipped the sequence hoping the LIV might not notice and he got poor hapless Jay to repeat it for him.
BTW ... hasn't ol' Jay been at this a long time or does it just seem that way.
 
Right ... Oama flipped the sequence hoping the LIV might not notice and he got poor hapless Jay to repeat it for him.
BTW ... hasn't ol' Jay been at this a long time or does it just seem that way.
I think Carney's name fits him. The sad thing is...people will buy into the twaddle.
 
Good one, Bubba. Yeah. I'm obviously confused. Just because one has a credit card with a $100,000 limit doesn't mean that a responsible person would automatically spend that $100,000. I would note though, that a gang banger who stole a credit card with such a limit would spend it all immediately. That's not how government works, though.

Love the metaphor ... so richly textured with nuance.
 
And it will continue to go on as long as both sides dont admit it is not the spending but themselves that are the problem. The so called entitlement problem is mostly partisan bull****. It is fraud and waste that is the problem and a nice chunk of that comes from Tea Party members as well, which makes them morons. That one of the first questions a freshman GOP Tea Party politician asked was "when will we get our healthcare covered".. shows how little they actually believe in their supposed views.

Because of the system as it is now, the Federal government is an ATM for politicians in local states. It is funny how especially the GOP types keep going on about state's rights and all that bull****, and with the other hand gladly accept billions in federal funding to balance budgets and keep their administrations running. If these guys were not morons, they would cut off all federal funding and going it alone.. but they know that this would either require massive cuts in their state or raising taxes.. in Texas case.. fees, which would be very unpopular.

Instead they use the Federal system as the big bad blame machine, complaining when there is not enough federal funding when their own funding comes up short, and at the same time complaining about overspending by the Federal system.

And at the same time they attack things like SS and Medicaid/care .. prime targets of the conservative right because it looks like socialism. They of course dont mention that successive GOP President (and yes Democrats as well) borrowed a huge chunk of money from SS which they cant pay back, and hence taking the SS system into trouble... and they also are against any and all attempts to fix the healthcare cost problem the US has, because it will hurt their political backers bottom line. Medicaid/care are only problems because of the private run healthcare systems pressing prices up and up... but instead they paint the whole cluster**** as Medicaid/cares faults.. classic right wing brainwashing.



No but it will happen if just one bill is not paid. And since you cant get enough money in to pay for what you are spending at the moment, then a default will happen. All it will take is some federal employee sueing for not getting paid.. and you are bankrupt.



We can go on and on debating this, but as long as the US right wing wont admit fully what the basic problems are, and the US left wont admit the same thing, then you are not going to get anywhere.

To fix this you need to means test SS, pay back all the money that was borrowed over the years and increase slightly the retirement age (although that will only increase unemployment but hey!) or even increase what people pay into the system. Point is, SS works and can work in the future. Making it private would be catastrophic, as we have seen in Chile.

To fix Medicaid/care you need to fix the whole healthcare problem.. it is private, expensive and highly inefficient. I am not saying Obamacare is a good or bad thing, but at least it is attempting to tackle the private run healthcare industry and hopefully bring down costs over time. Your healthcare system simply does not work as it should and it is about time Americans and especially the right, wake up and starting admitting this.. only then can you tackle the massive cost problems in the system, all of which have absolutely nothing to do with Medicaid/care. Plus yes, there could be cost savings in the programs.. like not giving 90 year olds cancer treatment and expensive end of life care.... it is their time.. let them go.

Taxes.. you need to actually collect the taxes that people should be paying.. especially the wealthy and corporations. Tackling avoidance and moving around of profits to avoid taxes must be stopped, not only in the US but world wide. It is pushing more and more of the tax burden on those that can barely afford to feed their families, where as the Paris Hiltons of the world can jet around snorting coke in a new country every day if they wanted.

Military spending.. a comprehensive review based on military needs not political bull**** is needed. Bases need closing world wide, and costs in procurement needs more transparency and accountability. There is no reason what so ever to pay 40k for a toilet seat just because it is on a sub.

There is plenty to tackle.. but as long as no one on both sides cant admit what the freaking problems are.. then well...
You are so transparent its pathetic. First, there is only a handful of "Tea Party" politicians. Second, they only came on to the scene RECENTLY...as in 2010 and they were elected PRECISELY because both parties have been so willing and eager to run up debt. You want them to "compromise" with the president...which means to STOP fighting and just sign on for more and increased debt. Democrats controlled the House and senate snce 2007...debt skyrockets. They held the house, senate and WH in 2009 and 2010 and still control the WH and Senate...and the first thing out of your mouth is...its the Tea Party! Pathetic.
 
Love the metaphor ... so richly textured with nuance.
Can you just imagine if all US citizens operated this way. So...lets see...I make 60k...but I spend 80k. I got a loan a credit account and an overdraft from the bank for 200k and I have been using the credit account to pay for all my excess spending. Uh oh...I'm at that 200k limit. Hey...Mr Banker...I need you to bump my credit limit to 250k. That way I can still spend irresponsibly AND pay my debt to you for the next 6 months, at which time I will come back and tell you I need you to bump it to 300k/ look...if you dont do it, I cant pay the debt I owe you and that would just be irresponsible on your part. I mean...you want to get paid for that first 100k you loaned me, right?
 
And it will continue to go on as long as both sides dont admit it is not the spending but themselves that are the problem. The so called entitlement problem is mostly partisan bull****. It is fraud and waste that is the problem and a nice chunk of that comes from Tea Party members as well, which makes them morons. That one of the first questions a freshman GOP Tea Party politician asked was "when will we get our healthcare covered".. shows how little they actually believe in their supposed views.

Because of the system as it is now, the Federal government is an ATM for politicians in local states. It is funny how especially the GOP types keep going on about state's rights and all that bull****, and with the other hand gladly accept billions in federal funding to balance budgets and keep their administrations running. If these guys were not morons, they would cut off all federal funding and going it alone.. but they know that this would either require massive cuts in their state or raising taxes.. in Texas case.. fees, which would be very unpopular.

Instead they use the Federal system as the big bad blame machine, complaining when there is not enough federal funding when their own funding comes up short, and at the same time complaining about overspending by the Federal system.

And at the same time they attack things like SS and Medicaid/care .. prime targets of the conservative right because it looks like socialism. They of course dont mention that successive GOP President (and yes Democrats as well) borrowed a huge chunk of money from SS which they cant pay back, and hence taking the SS system into trouble... and they also are against any and all attempts to fix the healthcare cost problem the US has, because it will hurt their political backers bottom line. Medicaid/care are only problems because of the private run healthcare systems pressing prices up and up... but instead they paint the whole cluster**** as Medicaid/cares faults.. classic right wing brainwashing.



No but it will happen if just one bill is not paid. And since you cant get enough money in to pay for what you are spending at the moment, then a default will happen. All it will take is some federal employee sueing for not getting paid.. and you are bankrupt.



We can go on and on debating this, but as long as the US right wing wont admit fully what the basic problems are, and the US left wont admit the same thing, then you are not going to get anywhere.

To fix this you need to means test SS, pay back all the money that was borrowed over the years and increase slightly the retirement age (although that will only increase unemployment but hey!) or even increase what people pay into the system. Point is, SS works and can work in the future. Making it private would be catastrophic, as we have seen in Chile.

To fix Medicaid/care you need to fix the whole healthcare problem.. it is private, expensive and highly inefficient. I am not saying Obamacare is a good or bad thing, but at least it is attempting to tackle the private run healthcare industry and hopefully bring down costs over time. Your healthcare system simply does not work as it should and it is about time Americans and especially the right, wake up and starting admitting this.. only then can you tackle the massive cost problems in the system, all of which have absolutely nothing to do with Medicaid/care. Plus yes, there could be cost savings in the programs.. like not giving 90 year olds cancer treatment and expensive end of life care.... it is their time.. let them go.

Taxes.. you need to actually collect the taxes that people should be paying.. especially the wealthy and corporations. Tackling avoidance and moving around of profits to avoid taxes must be stopped, not only in the US but world wide. It is pushing more and more of the tax burden on those that can barely afford to feed their families, where as the Paris Hiltons of the world can jet around snorting coke in a new country every day if they wanted.

Military spending.. a comprehensive review based on military needs not political bull**** is needed. Bases need closing world wide, and costs in procurement needs more transparency and accountability. There is no reason what so ever to pay 40k for a toilet seat just because it is on a sub.

There is plenty to tackle.. but as long as no one on both sides cant admit what the freaking problems are.. then well...
Pete, that's quite a tome there. I don't disagree that both parties are culpable. The simple truth is that entitlements increase by law every year. This is unsustainable. There are problems throughout the budget here, but the elephant in the room is entitlements. They must be reformed or we're dead in the water. That's a real challenge which requires leadership the likes of which we haven't had here in quite some time - it isn't limited to Obama's administration. They've just poured gas on the fire. Truthfully, unless and until we get the economy growing significantly here again, we are somewhat hamstrung. Tax revenues will increase from a rapidly growing economy, and we could easily reach that with energy production growth. After that, we can address the spending side of the equation. I'm not wonkish enough to get into every program we spend money on, and I don't ever plan to be. The big picture is enough for me, and all I'm remotely qualified to comment about.
 
Pete, that's quite a tome there. I don't disagree that both parties are culpable. The simple truth is that entitlements increase by law every year. This is unsustainable. There are problems throughout the budget here, but
the elephant in the room is entitlements. They must be reformed or we're dead in the water.
That's a real challenge which requires leadership the likes of which we haven't had here in quite some time - it isn't limited to Obama's administration. They've just poured gas on the fire. Truthfully, unless and until we get the economy growing significantly here again, we are somewhat hamstrung. Tax revenues will increase from a rapidly growing economy, and we could easily reach that with energy production growth. After that, we can address the spending side of the equation. I'm not wonkish enough to get into every program we spend money on, and I don't ever plan to be. The big picture is enough for me, and all I'm remotely qualified to comment about.

So then ... you're suggesting we shouldn't be cranking up another entitlement in 2 weeks?
 
So then ... you're suggesting we shouldn't be cranking up another entitlement in 2 weeks?
We must raise the debt ceiling or people will die. We're finding new rights all the time. They're everywhere. We just haven't been able to see them before now, thanks to Obama's extraordinary vision. BTW, wasn't Jay a journalist before he became a professional spinster? Wait - I guess there's no difference. Never mind.
 
Pete, that's quite a tome there. I don't disagree that both parties are culpable. The simple truth is that entitlements increase by law every year. This is unsustainable. There are problems throughout the budget here, but the elephant in the room is entitlements. They must be reformed or we're dead in the water. That's a real challenge which requires leadership the likes of which we haven't had here in quite some time - it isn't limited to Obama's administration. They've just poured gas on the fire. Truthfully, unless and until we get the economy growing significantly here again, we are somewhat hamstrung. Tax revenues will increase from a rapidly growing economy, and we could easily reach that with energy production growth. After that, we can address the spending side of the equation. I'm not wonkish enough to get into every program we spend money on, and I don't ever plan to be. The big picture is enough for me, and all I'm remotely qualified to comment about.

Again I dont disagree.. but entitlements are not per say the problem... it is WHY they are growing. For Medicaid/care it is the over all growth in healthcare costs, which is driven by the private sector and its greed. For SS it is because people are living longer, something you cant change, so you have fix somehow... and raising the retirement age wont fix it since no one is gonna hire a 70 year old for any job. So raising contributions is one of the only solutions which means more taxes.. which the GOP wont do.

Point is, blaming entitlements hides the true problems.. which the GOP are unwilling to tackle.

Tell me.. is the right willing to seriously tackle the healthcare inflation in the US?
 
And it will continue to go on as long as both sides dont admit it is not the spending but themselves that are the problem. The so called entitlement problem is mostly partisan bull****. It is fraud and waste that is the problem and a nice chunk of that comes from Tea Party members as well, which makes them morons. That one of the first questions a freshman GOP Tea Party politician asked was "when will we get our healthcare covered".. shows how little they actually believe in their supposed views.

Because of the system as it is now, the Federal government is an ATM for politicians in local states. It is funny how especially the GOP types keep going on about state's rights and all that bull****, and with the other hand gladly accept billions in federal funding to balance budgets and keep their administrations running. If these guys were not morons, they would cut off all federal funding and going it alone.. but they know that this would either require massive cuts in their state or raising taxes.. in Texas case.. fees, which would be very unpopular.

Instead they use the Federal system as the big bad blame machine, complaining when there is not enough federal funding when their own funding comes up short, and at the same time complaining about overspending by the Federal system.

And at the same time they attack things like SS and Medicaid/care .. prime targets of the conservative right because it looks like socialism. They of course dont mention that successive GOP President (and yes Democrats as well) borrowed a huge chunk of money from SS which they cant pay back, and hence taking the SS system into trouble... and they also are against any and all attempts to fix the healthcare cost problem the US has, because it will hurt their political backers bottom line. Medicaid/care are only problems because of the private run healthcare systems pressing prices up and up... but instead they paint the whole cluster**** as Medicaid/cares faults.. classic right wing brainwashing.



No but it will happen if just one bill is not paid. And since you cant get enough money in to pay for what you are spending at the moment, then a default will happen. All it will take is some federal employee sueing for not getting paid.. and you are bankrupt.



We can go on and on debating this, but as long as the US right wing wont admit fully what the basic problems are, and the US left wont admit the same thing, then you are not going to get anywhere.

To fix this you need to means test SS, pay back all the money that was borrowed over the years and increase slightly the retirement age (although that will only increase unemployment but hey!) or even increase what people pay into the system. Point is, SS works and can work in the future. Making it private would be catastrophic, as we have seen in Chile.

To fix Medicaid/care you need to fix the whole healthcare problem.. it is private, expensive and highly inefficient. I am not saying Obamacare is a good or bad thing, but at least it is attempting to tackle the private run healthcare industry and hopefully bring down costs over time. Your healthcare system simply does not work as it should and it is about time Americans and especially the right, wake up and starting admitting this.. only then can you tackle the massive cost problems in the system, all of which have absolutely nothing to do with Medicaid/care. Plus yes, there could be cost savings in the programs.. like not giving 90 year olds cancer treatment and expensive end of life care.... it is their time.. let them go.

Taxes.. you need to actually collect the taxes that people should be paying.. especially the wealthy and corporations. Tackling avoidance and moving around of profits to avoid taxes must be stopped, not only in the US but world wide. It is pushing more and more of the tax burden on those that can barely afford to feed their families, where as the Paris Hiltons of the world can jet around snorting coke in a new country every day if they wanted.

Military spending.. a comprehensive review based on military needs not political bull**** is needed. Bases need closing world wide, and costs in procurement needs more transparency and accountability. There is no reason what so ever to pay 40k for a toilet seat just because it is on a sub.

There is plenty to tackle.. but as long as no one on both sides cant admit what the freaking problems are.. then well...

Good morning, PeteEU. :2wave:

Excellent post! :thumbs:
 
So then ... you're suggesting we shouldn't be cranking up another entitlement in 2 weeks?

Good morning, Bubba. :2wave:

I'm just wondering where, in the very long queue of people waiting for equality in the budget process, does the taxpayer, who is expected to fund all the spending, come into the picture? Probably too far down the line to see without high-powered binoculars, I guess. :shock:
 
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