Border agents routinely used tear gas during Obama administration

[Sabre]

Gas use declined in Obama's last years. Trump is already at a level higher this year than Obama's highest year total.

And, no, it does not stand to reason that Obama's border patrol gassed children.

There's no reason to assume it without evidence. But keep on trying to minimize how Trump has turned cruelty into policy in an attempt to scare people away from attempting to get asylum.

Your first sentence is correct in that under Obama in 2012 the number was 26 and under Trump it has been a huge increase of 3 to a total of 29. What I find deceitful is that you are trying to excuse Obama's score based on just one year, shall we look at the total? For the use under Obama that would be 97 times... How about we wait until Trump has had his eight years in office to make a proper comparison.

So you believe that there were no children present when any use of tear gas, under Obama, was used? Based on what, where is your evidence there were none. It is you that says "There's no reason to assume it without evidence".

But, that statement is not correct now is it? or do you not understand the meaning of the word "assume"? Allow me to aid you.

as·sume.
.
[əˈso͞om]

VERB
.
1.suppose to be the case, without proof.

So when you say "There's no reason to assume it without evidence" that is incorrect because that is the circumstance where one does have to assume.

 

[Amelia]

The Trump gas is too thick in here.


I'm leaving before I suffer irreparable brain damage.

 

[ClaraD]

I would say thousands

I assume you have proof of such or are you making assumptions because a known liar like Trump said so?

 

[ClaraD]

Your first sentence is correct in that under Obama in 2012 the number was 26 and under Trump it has been a huge increase of 3 to a total of 29. What I find deceitful is that you are trying to excuse Obama's score based on just one year, shall we look at the total? For the use under Obama that would be 97 times... How about we wait until Trump has had his eight years in office to make a proper comparison.

So you believe that there were no children present when any use of tear gas, under Obama, was used? Based on what, where is your evidence there were none. It is you that says "There's no reason to assume it without evidence".

But, that statement is not correct now is it? or do you not understand the meaning of the word "assume"? Allow me to aid you.

as·sume.
.
[əˈso͞om]

VERB
.
1.suppose to be the case, without proof.

So when you say "There's no reason to assume it without evidence" that is incorrect because that is the circumstance where one does have to assume.

do you or don't you have evidence under what circumstanes that Obama allowed the use of tear gas? Was it in a drug operation or against children?

 

[ClaraD]

Yet, Clinton and Janet Reno murdered 77 children at Waco, Texas and no one batted an eye. Let's not forget the saga of Elian Gonzales in Florida when he was wrenched at gun point from his foster parents, relatives no less, and returned to communist Cuba. Note the following picture:

[/IMG]

Janet Reno did not murder 77 children in Waco....the Branch Davidians did that. You forget to mention that the Branch Davidians opened fire upon ATF agents...of course they responded with gunfire. The ATF launched tear gas to bring them out...it was discovered that almost all of them were dead before the fire ever started.....they had fed the children poison.


Autopsies of the dead revealed that some women and children found beneath a fallen concrete wall of a storage room died of skull injuries. Autopsy photographs of other children locked in what appear to be spasmic death poses are consistent with cyanide poisoning, one of the results produced by burning CS gas.[44] The U.S. Department of Justice report indicated that only one body had traces of benzene, one of the components of solvent-dispersed CS gas, but that the gas insertions had finished nearly one hour before the fire started, and that it was enough time for solvents to dissipate from the bodies of the Branch Davidians that had inhaled the tear gas.[71]

Autopsy records also indicate that at least 20 Branch Davidians were shot, including five children under the age of 14. Three-year-old Dayland Gent was stabbed in the chest. The medical examiner who performed the autopsies believed these deaths were mercy killings by the Branch Davidians trapped in the fire with no escape. The expert retained by the U.S. Office of Special Counsel concluded that many of the gunshot wounds "support self-destruction either by overt suicide, consensual execution (suicide by proxy), or less likely, forced execution."[67]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_siege



Further the child sent back to Cuba wasn't a refugee...his mother died at sea and she had left with her son without the father's permission...that is known as international kidnapping...he was being rightfully returned to his father.

 

[Sabre]

do you or don't you have evidence under what circumstanes that Obama allowed the use of tear gas? Was it in a drug operation or against children?

That information has been provided here many times.

All the statistics I posted before were uses by the Obama administration against "migrants" at the border. We have not been talking about drug operations and no one ever targeted children.

You are here using the web which means you too can look up the answer for yourself with any browser you choose, or go back to the beginning of this thread and read from there, there are many posts on the subject. Here, I will get you started, type "reasons the Obama administration used tear gas" in any browser of your choice. I'm tired of spoon feeding and having it ignored.

 

[Born Free]

I assume you have proof of such or are you making assumptions because a known liar like Trump said so?

You ever heard of Obama's lies, you can keep your Dr.............................................................................

 

[ClaraD]

That information has been provided here many times.

All the statistics I posted before were uses by the Obama administration against "migrants" at the border. We have not been talking about drug operations and no one ever targeted children.

You are here using the web which means you too can look up the answer for yourself with any browser you choose, or go back to the beginning of this thread and read from there, there are many posts on the subject. Here, I will get you started, type "reasons the Obama administration used tear gas" in any browser of your choice. I'm tired of spoon feeding and having it ignored.

I lived at the border during at least part of the Obama administration...I don't recall a single instance of tear gas being used against migrants...I do recall once when shots were fired at the border between cartel and Mexican police and tear gas was shot then....but not on our side towards asylees..

 

[ClaraD]

You ever heard of Obama's lies, you can keep your Dr.............................................................................

off topic.

 

[Joecool44]

I lived at the border during at least part of the Obama administration...I don't recall a single instance of tear gas being used against migrants...I do recall once when shots were fired at the border between cartel and Mexican police and tear gas was shot then....but not on our side towards asylees..

I don't think Obama really cared much about illegals entering the US. Hillary Clinton wanted open borders, which is beyond stupid.

 

[ClaraD]

I don't think Obama really cared much about illegals entering the US. Hillary Clinton wanted open borders, which is beyond stupid.

Clinton did not want open borders...in fact, her husband was the very cause of a lot of the issues with the 1996 law he signed in conjunction with a Republican Congress.

Obama was known as the deporter in chief....so you aren't being honest.

 

[Joecool44]

Clinton did not want open borders...in fact, her husband was the very cause of a lot of the issues with the 1996 law he signed in conjunction with a Republican Congress.

Obama was known as the deporter in chief....so you aren't being honest.

By Ben Wolfgang - The Washington Times - Saturday, October 8, 2016
Hillary Clinton in 2013 said she dreams of a “common market with open trade and open borders,” saying that economic opportunity in the U.S. would grow as a result.

When she said dream, I guess she meant she was sleeping?

Wasn't Obama responsible for DACA, which brought hoards of undocumented people to the US?

 

[ClaraD]

When she said dream, I guess she meant she was sleeping?

Wasn't Obama responsible for DACA, which brought hoards of undocumented people to the US?

DACA only covered children who had grown up in the US and had graduated at US high schools or universities...it didn't bring hoards of people here. Dreamers are the same as DACA...it covers children that were already here and had spent their entire lives here....not new arrivals.

 

[SLC]

DACA only covered children who had grown up in the US and had graduated at US high schools or universities...it didn't bring hoards of people here. Dreamers are the same as DACA...it covers children that were already here and had spent their entire lives here....not new arrivals.

Hey Clara did you notice they found 4 cases of chicken pox, 3 cases of TB , 4 cases of HIV amd 220cases of lice in the caravan. They also had about 1250 respiratory infections also.

 

[ClaraD]

Hey Clara did you notice they found 4 cases of chicken pox, 3 cases of TB , 4 cases of HIV amd 220cases of lice in the caravan. They also had about 1250 respiratory infections also.

respiratory infections? colds....so? chicken pox...again so? Our population vaccinates against chicken pox...and again TB if not active can be treated with antibiotics...so again so? Lice? Sounds like our elementary schools...treat it, problem solved. 4 cases of HIV? and? It isn't like you can catch HIV by them breathing on you....so?

 

[SLC]

respiratory infections? colds....so? chicken pox...again so? Our population vaccinates against chicken pox...and again TB if not active can be treated with antibiotics...so again so? Lice? Sounds like our elementary schools...treat it, problem solved. 4 cases of HIV? and? It isn't like you can catch HIV by them breathing on you....so?

I thought you said they were all vaccinated. 4 chicken pox cases in 6000 people is a HIGH rate of infection. If the cases are in kids about 30-40 percent of the caravan are women and children. So let's say 2000 women and kids. Let's say 3 kids per mother. That be 4 cases in 1500 kids that would be very high rate of infection. You can catch chicken pox if you get breathed on by someone . And chicken pox in pregnant women causes birth defects. And chicken pox can be lethal. So poo pooing chicken pox is unwise. Likewise 4 cases of HIV in 6000 is way high. And 3 cases of TB is also high and who knows how virulent those cases are. So this isn't a healthy population and needs to be vetted and checked and treated for health issues. Its not like you said though.

 

[bicycleman]

off topic.

Yeah, things are off-topic when you have no way to refute the post.

 

[bicycleman]

So gassing and pepper spraying were excessive force since the caravan was "only" throwing rocks. Not according to the border agent, who lost his life due to rocks.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5100891/Border-Patrol-agent-killed-rock-throwers-ambush.html?fbclid=IwAR14B7oKJEFKM0KiUQwyhFgw_-LJgx7vjOhCWCBazJGxSoHamkLjUEa4-Io

 

[ClaraD]

Yeah, things are off-topic when you have no way to refute the post.

No, it is off topic..the topic here is about the border agents using tear gas. It isn't about Obamacare....want to post about Obama or Obamacare..make your own thread.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Your first sentence is correct in that under Obama in 2012 the number was 26 and under Trump it has been a huge increase of 3 to a total of 29. What I find deceitful is that you are trying to excuse Obama's score based on just one year, shall we look at the total? For the use under Obama that would be 97 times... How about we wait until Trump has had his eight years in office to make a proper comparison.

Gosh, why do I hear echoes of "Now is not the time to talk about guns" in that statement?

PS - Can you please tell me the number of times that official American government personnel launched chemical weapons (yes, "tear gas" counts) attacks in Mexico when Mr. Obama was the President?

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

So gassing and pepper spraying were excessive force since the caravan was "only" throwing rocks. Not according to the border agent, who lost his life due to rocks.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5100891/Border-Patrol-agent-killed-rock-throwers-ambush.html?fbclid=IwAR14B7oKJEFKM0KiUQwyhFgw_-LJgx7vjOhCWCBazJGxSoHamkLjUEa4-Io

Do you know the difference between "beaten" and "thrown"?

PS - You might want to update your handy-dandy list of links that I haven't read but which I have been told support what I want to believe to include "Trail of clues fails to explain mysterious death of Border Patrol agent" with particular attention to the

No evidence of murder
Authorities appear ready to rule out the possibility that Martinez and his partner were attacked or ambushed.
The agents did not suffer "defensive wounds" and investigators did not find "third-party blood or DNA evidence" in the scene or the agents' clothing, according to an internal memo, from acting US Customs and Border Protection Commissioner Kevin McAleenan, which was obtained by CNN.
​

bit.

And also "Border Patrol agent died in fall, according to memo contradicting Trump's claim of attack".

Sorry to break your shiny new toy.

 

[Sabre]

Gosh, why do I hear echoes of "Now is not the time to talk about guns" in that statement?

PS - Can you please tell me the number of times that official American government personnel launched chemical weapons (yes, "tear gas" counts) attacks in Mexico when Mr. Obama was the President?

If you heard echoes about guns then it sounds like a personal problem, if you are hearing voices you need a break. As to the second part about chemical weapons please see post #106 in this thread.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

If you heard echoes about guns then it sounds like a personal problem, if you are hearing voices you need a break.

Thank you for demonstrating that you do not know what an "analogy" is.

As to the second part about chemical weapons please see post #106 in this thread.

I did. It does not respond to a question about how many times those chemical weapons were deployed IN MEXICO.

Since you, obviously, have all the reference materials at your fingertips, I would really appreciate an answer more substantial than "Go and look it up for yourself.".

PS - You might note that "CBP has not immediately responded to a request for records outlining why tear gas and pepper spray were used in instances recorded since fiscal year 2012." does not actually provide either any reasons or where the tear gas was deployed.

With reference to (only) the November 2013 incident, I will point out that

The incident occurred about a quarter-mile west of the San Ysidro border crossing in the Tijuana River channel. No one was seriously injured, no shots were fired and no arrests were made, said Mary Beth Caston, a Border Patrol spokeswoman.

The group first approached a lone agent stationed about 1/8 of a mile north of the border. They ignored his commands to stop, so he fired pepper balls to try to stop them and protect himself,
[LINK]
​

and so that incident would not be included in the number of times that the CBP deployed chemical weapons IN MEXICO and that it is the number of times that the CBP deployed chemical weapons IN MEXICO that I would like to know.