• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Border agents routinely used tear gas during Obama administration

Jack Fabulous

Friend Zone
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 17, 2012
Messages
15,541
Reaction score
5,684
Location
midwest
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bo...as-during-obama-administration-dhs-data-shows

According to DHS data obtained by Fox News, the U.S. Customs and Border Protection agency has used 2-chlorobenzylidene malononitrile, commonly known as tear gas, 126 times since 2010.

During the Obama administration, tear gas was used on the border 26 times in 2012, 27 times in 2013, 15 times in 2014, eight times in 2015, and three times in 2016. That compares to 18 times in 2017 and 29 times in 2018 during the Trump administration.

But wait! There's more...

Border agents, the DHS data shows, also regularly used Pava Capsaicin, commonly known as pepper spray, 540 times between 2012 to 2018.

During the Obama administration, pepper spray was used 95 times in 2012, 151 times in 2013, 109 times in 2014, 30 times in 2015 and 56 times in 2016, the data shows. Pepper spray was used 56 times in 2017 and 43 times in 2018 during the Trump administration.

It would appear that President Trump is on pace to shatter Obama's record of 79 tear gassings over a 5 year span but he has his work cut out for him if he wants to beat the pepper spray record. Obama averaged 88.2 pepper sprayings per year and right now Trump is only averaging 49.5.

It's still early but if I were a betting man, I'd put my money on Trump to shatter the tear gas record but Obama'a pepper spray record appears to be safe.
 

Hatuey

Rule of Two
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 17, 2006
Messages
56,278
Reaction score
23,455
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bo...as-during-obama-administration-dhs-data-shows



But wait! There's more...



It would appear that President Trump is on pace to shatter Obama's record of 79 tear gassings over a 5 year span but he has his work cut out for him if he wants to beat the pepper spray record. Obama averaged 88.2 pepper sprayings per year and right now Trump is only averaging 49.5.

It's still early but if I were a betting man, I'd put my money on Trump to shatter the tear gas record but Obama'a pepper spray record appears to be safe.
So the Obama administration reduced the use of tear gas year over year while the Trump administration has increased it, year over year.

Interesting.

Sent from Trump Plaza's basement using Putin's MacBook.
 

Mycroft

Genius is where you find it.
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 27, 2011
Messages
74,749
Reaction score
29,887
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bo...as-during-obama-administration-dhs-data-shows



But wait! There's more...



It would appear that President Trump is on pace to shatter Obama's record of 79 tear gassings over a 5 year span but he has his work cut out for him if he wants to beat the pepper spray record. Obama averaged 88.2 pepper sprayings per year and right now Trump is only averaging 49.5.

It's still early but if I were a betting man, I'd put my money on Trump to shatter the tear gas record but Obama'a pepper spray record appears to be safe.

Using tear gas and pepper spray without a policy or goal in place to reduce the need for the stuff only perpetuates the need to use it. This is where the difference between Obama and Trump lies. Obama had no such policy or goal. Trump does.

I put my money on Trump NOT breaking any of Obama's tear gas/pepper spray records.
 

Jack Fabulous

Friend Zone
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 17, 2012
Messages
15,541
Reaction score
5,684
Location
midwest
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
So the Obama administration reduced the use of tear gas year over year while the Trump administration has increased it, year over year.

Interesting.

Sent from Trump Plaza's basement using Putin's MacBook.

Trump comes from a background that embraces the concept of continuous improvement so it makes perfect sense.
 

azgreg

Chicks dig the long ball
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 28, 2012
Messages
23,789
Reaction score
20,822
Location
Phoenix, AZ
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Using tear gas and pepper spray without a policy or goal in place to reduce the need for the stuff only perpetuates the need to use it. This is where the difference between Obama and Trump lies. Obama had no such policy or goal. Trump does.

I put my money on Trump NOT breaking any of Obama's tear gas/pepper spray records.
A link to this policy please.
 

Amelia

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Messages
9,804
Reaction score
7,610
Location
Wisconsin
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
How many times did Obama's border patrol gas children?
 

Amelia

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Messages
9,804
Reaction score
7,610
Location
Wisconsin
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
So the Obama administration reduced the use of tear gas year over year while the Trump administration has increased it, year over year.

Interesting.


Isn't it.
 

Hatuey

Rule of Two
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 17, 2006
Messages
56,278
Reaction score
23,455
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
Trump comes from a background that embraces the concept of continuous improvement so it makes perfect sense.
So you're saying it's a good thing to increase the use of pepper spray? Interesting.

Sent from Trump Plaza's basement using Putin's MacBook.
 

Mycroft

Genius is where you find it.
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 27, 2011
Messages
74,749
Reaction score
29,887
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative

Kreton

Doesn't know
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 11, 2011
Messages
12,262
Reaction score
5,647
Location
Over that way
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bo...as-during-obama-administration-dhs-data-shows



But wait! There's more...



It would appear that President Trump is on pace to shatter Obama's record of 79 tear gassings over a 5 year span but he has his work cut out for him if he wants to beat the pepper spray record. Obama averaged 88.2 pepper sprayings per year and right now Trump is only averaging 49.5.

It's still early but if I were a betting man, I'd put my money on Trump to shatter the tear gas record but Obama'a pepper spray record appears to be safe.

To clarify here, because I think this is a key point, did Obama specifically order the use of tear gas or was it a practice that carried over that he failed to stop?
 

azgreg

Chicks dig the long ball
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 28, 2012
Messages
23,789
Reaction score
20,822
Location
Phoenix, AZ
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent

Jack Fabulous

Friend Zone
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 17, 2012
Messages
15,541
Reaction score
5,684
Location
midwest
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
To clarify here, because I think this is a key point, did Obama specifically order the use of tear gas or was it a practice that carried over that he failed to stop?

I believe border agents follow rules of engagement similar to civilian police. Those rules of engagement obviously allow for the use of tear gas and pepper spray.
 

Kreton

Doesn't know
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 11, 2011
Messages
12,262
Reaction score
5,647
Location
Over that way
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
I believe border agents follow rules of engagement similar to civilian police. Those rules of engagement obviously allow for the use of tear gas and pepper spray.

That is a lot of letters to say no. Obama did not, unlike Trump, order and encourage troops to treat asylum seekers as hostile.
 

Tom Horn

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 22, 2018
Messages
1,854
Reaction score
207
Location
TEXAS
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bo...as-during-obama-administration-dhs-data-shows



But wait! There's more...



It would appear that President Trump is on pace to shatter Obama's record of 79 tear gassings over a 5 year span but he has his work cut out for him if he wants to beat the pepper spray record. Obama averaged 88.2 pepper sprayings per year and right now Trump is only averaging 49.5.

It's still early but if I were a betting man, I'd put my money on Trump to shatter the tear gas record but Obama'a pepper spray record appears to be safe.
When the young communists were agitating the Saigon government they’d use plastic bags over their heads to cut down on its effectiveness. Maybe your people could try tying the open end together this time around.
 

Jack Fabulous

Friend Zone
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 17, 2012
Messages
15,541
Reaction score
5,684
Location
midwest
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
That is a lot of letters to say no. Obama did not, unlike Trump, order and encourage troops to treat asylum seekers as hostile.

The VAST majority are not asylum seekers. That is a ruse. They knew before they took one step on their journey that they did not qualify.
 

Acadia

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
16,946
Reaction score
10,670
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Private
That is a lot of letters to say no. Obama did not, unlike Trump, order and encourage troops to treat asylum seekers as hostile.

Yet at any point in time, Obama could have stopped the use of tear gas, pepper spray and deadly force, ALL of which was used to combat individuals or groups throwing projectiles at border agents.
Yeah, people were shot for throwing rocks under Obama.
 

Amelia

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Messages
9,804
Reaction score
7,610
Location
Wisconsin
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
The title of the thread is a lie.

The use of gas in the Obama administration wasn't "routine". It decreased materially. It was apparently kept as an option, but it wasn't routine.

And I'm still waiting for a link showing the Obama administration gassed children at the border.


Trump's goal is to be as inhumane as he can get away with within the law, and in some cases he doesn't even care if it's against the law. He's willing to push the envelope and make orders he has been told are illegal. His goal is to show would-be asylum seekers that America is a place they don't want to be. And he doesn't give a damn if children are harmed to make his point. For him that is a feature of his strategy, not a flaw.
 

Xelor

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 20, 2018
Messages
10,257
Reaction score
4,161
Location
Washington, D.C.
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Nobody I've spoken with gives a damn about the Border Patrol (BP) using the teargas. They all say the same thing: they're not currently in a position to second-guess BP's use of teargas, so they're withholding judgment in that regard.

What they are in a position to pass judgment on, and they damn sure have done, is Trump's trying to put lipstick on the pig that is people getting teargassed. Trump called the gas used "a very minor form of the tear gas itself;" moreover, he denied that it was used against children despite pictures and video showing that isn't at all so.
 

trixare4kids

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 16, 2017
Messages
44,649
Reaction score
30,887
Location
S. California
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Independent
The VAST majority are not asylum seekers. That is a ruse. They knew before they took one step on their journey that they did not qualify.

Correct.
The migrants, from this particular caravan that originated in Honduras, are under the delusion that they are entitled to asylum in the country of their choosing.
 

Mycroft

Genius is where you find it.
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 27, 2011
Messages
74,749
Reaction score
29,887
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
No, I asked for a link to this tear gas and pepper spray policy you mentioned.

I didn't mention any tear gas and pepper spray policy.

You should learn to read for comprehension, you know.
 

Mycroft

Genius is where you find it.
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 27, 2011
Messages
74,749
Reaction score
29,887
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Nobody I've spoken with gives a damn about the Border Patrol (BP) using the teargas. They all say the same thing: they're not currently in a position to second-guess BP's use of teargas, so they're withholding judgment in that regard.

What they are in a position to pass judgment on, and they damn sure have done, is Trump's trying to put lipstick on the pig that is people getting teargassed. Trump called the gas used "a very minor form of the tear gas itself;" moreover, he denied that it was used against children despite pictures and video showing that isn't at all so.

Any military person who was ever tasked with running a gas chamber knows that the concentration of tear gas is controllable. In that regard, Trump is correct about what was used against the mob.

Regarding using it against children, again Trump is correct. It was used against people breaking through the border. Now...perhaps the wind shifted the stuff and some children were affected. Sorry, but Border Patrol doesn't control the wind. Nor do they control the people who brought their children to a border assault.
 

azgreg

Chicks dig the long ball
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 28, 2012
Messages
23,789
Reaction score
20,822
Location
Phoenix, AZ
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
I didn't mention any tear gas and pepper spray policy.

You should learn to read for comprehension, you know.

Yes you did.

Using tear gas and pepper spray without a policy or goal in place to reduce the need for the stuff only perpetuates the need to use it. This is where the difference between Obama and Trump lies. Obama had no such policy or goal. Trump does.

I put my money on Trump NOT breaking any of Obama's tear gas/pepper spray records.
 
Top Bottom