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Bob Nofacts out at CNN in at Fox

Trajan Octavian Titus said:
A former CIA covert agent who supervised Mrs. Plame early in her career yesterday took issue with her identification as an "undercover agent," saying that she worked for more than five years at the agency's headquarters in Langley and that most of her neighbors and friends knew that she was a CIA employee.
"She made no bones about the fact that she was an agency employee and her husband was a diplomat," Fred Rustmann, a covert agent from 1966 to 1990, told The Washington Times.
"Her neighbors knew this, her friends knew this, his friends knew this. A lot of blame could be put on to central cover staff and the agency because they weren't minding the store here. ... The agency never changed her cover status."
Mr. Rustmann, who spent 20 of his 24 years in the agency under "nonofficial cover" -- also known as a NOC, the same status as the wife of Mr. Wilson -- also said that she worked under extremely light cover.
In addition, Mrs. Plame hadn't been out as an NOC since 1997, when she returned from her last assignment, married Mr. Wilson and had twins, USA Today reported yesterday.
The distinction matters because a law that forbids disclosing the name of undercover CIA operatives applies to agents that had been on overseas assignment "within the last five years."
"She was home for such a long time, she went to work every day at Langley, she was in an analytical type job, she was married to a high-profile diplomat with two kids," Mr. Rustmann said. "Most people who knew Valerie and her husband, I think, would have thought that she was an overt CIA employee."

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20050715-121257-9887r.htm

I give as much credibility to the Washington Times as I do to Star magazine. LOL Trajan, you clearly do not have your facts straight. I agree that she was most likely not a "covert" agent; however, as stated by Fitzgerald, her status at the CIA was "classified." Did you hear his press conference? He pointed out that her working at the CIA was classified and that her employment status there was not known by her friends and neighbors.

Mr. Rustmann said. "Most people who knew Valerie and her husband, I think, would have thought that she was an overt CIA employee."

Notice how Rustmann is projecting how others would think. And he can't even be definite. "I think" and "people...would have thought." Oh puleeze. What does that tell you? One of the things that Wilson pointed out, and it is very true, as I experience this almost every day, is that it's easy to keep your job secret because most people don't ask you questions--all they want to do is talk about themselves.
 
Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Fitzgerald has stated that Plame was not Covert so how could she have been outted if she was never covert in the first place, Libby is under endictment now for lying to the investigators about where he got his information from not for outting her because she WAS NOT COVERT as Fitzgerald has made perfectly clear but guess what he's not going to be convicted on that either because a journalist has recently come out and recanted his original testimony that he did not tell Libby about Ms. Plane and is now saying that he doesn't quite remember and that he may have mentioned it to him.

Of course we've been saying this for months look up to my last post above.

Trajan, lying under oath is a crime in and of itself. I do not believe that Fitzgerald can get a conviction or an indictment based upon the underlying statute. What Libby did was lie under oath. Think about it--Ken Starr's investigation involved Whitewater--not Lewinsky. But Clinton lied under oath regarding his relationship with Lewinsky, and thus he committed perjury.

Time will tell if Libby will be convicted. I will point out, as I have in other posts, that Libby was well known to be someone who pay attention to detail and has a phenomenal memory. I personally do not believe that Woodward's testimony will have an impact on Libby's case, although his attorney is claiming it will. There are experts on both sides of this situation that state it will help or not help Libby. Based upon listening to these people and having a law degree, I have concluded that it doesn't help Libby. If you think it does, fine. But don't make it seem as though it's your way or it's the highway. All cases get decided based upon weighing the facts.
 
aps said:
I give as much credibility to the Washington Times as I do to Star magazine. LOL Trajan, you clearly do not have your facts straight. I agree that she was most likely not a "covert" agent; however, as stated by Fitzgerald, her status at the CIA was "classified." Did you hear his press conference? He pointed out that her working at the CIA was classified and that her employment status there was not known by her friends and neighbors.

Mr. Rustmann said. "Most people who knew Valerie and her husband, I think, would have thought that she was an overt CIA employee."

Notice how Rustmann is projecting how others would think. And he can't even be definite. "I think" and "people...would have thought." Oh puleeze. What does that tell you? One of the things that Wilson pointed out, and it is very true, as I experience this almost every day, is that it's easy to keep your job secret because most people don't ask you questions--all they want to do is talk about themselves.


"Let me say two things," Fitzgerald told reporters. "I am not speaking [in this indictment] to whether or not Valerie Wilson was covert . . . And we have not made any allegation that Mr. Libby knowingly or intentionally outed a covert agent."

"The grand jury's indictment charges that Mr. Libby committed five crimes. The indictment charges one count of obstruction of justice of the federal grand jury, two counts of perjury and two counts of false statements." - Fitzgerald

I don't see outting a CIA agent being in that list of charges, as for Libby he's getting off and you can take that one to the bank here's what Woodward is going to get him off:

"Fitzgerald asked if I had discussed Wilson's wife with any other government officials before Robert Novak's column on July 14, 2003. I testified that I had no recollection of doing so.

He asked if I had possibly planned to ask questions about what I had learned about Wilson's wife with any other government official.

I testified that on June 20, 2003, I interviewed a second administration official for my book "Plan of Attack" and that one of the lists of questions I believe I brought to the interview included on a single line the phrase "Joe Wilson's wife." I testified that I have no recollection of asking about her, and that the tape-recorded interview contains no indication that the subject arose.

I also testified that I had a conversation with a third person on June 23, 2003. The person was I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, and we talked on the phone. I told him I was sending to him an 18-page list of questions I wanted to ask Vice President Cheney. On page 5 of that list there was a question about "yellowcake" and the October 2002 National Intelligence Estimate regarding Iraq's weapons programs. I testified that I believed I had both the 18-page question list and the question list from the June 20 interview with the phrase "Joe Wilson's wife" on my desk during this discussion. I testified that I have no recollection that Wilson or his wife was discussed, and I have no notes of the conversation."
 
Trajan Octavian Titus said:
"Let me say two things," Fitzgerald told reporters. "I am not speaking [in this indictment] to whether or not Valerie Wilson was covert . . . And we have not made any allegation that Mr. Libby knowingly or intentionally outed a covert agent."

"The grand jury's indictment charges that Mr. Libby committed five crimes. The indictment charges one count of obstruction of justice of the federal grand jury, two counts of perjury and two counts of false statements." - Fitzgerald

I don't see outting a CIA agent being in that list of charges, as for Libby he's getting off and you can take that one to the bank here's what Woodward is going to get him off:

"Fitzgerald asked if I had discussed Wilson's wife with any other government officials before Robert Novak's column on July 14, 2003. I testified that I had no recollection of doing so.

He asked if I had possibly planned to ask questions about what I had learned about Wilson's wife with any other government official.

I testified that on June 20, 2003, I interviewed a second administration official for my book "Plan of Attack" and that one of the lists of questions I believe I brought to the interview included on a single line the phrase "Joe Wilson's wife." I testified that I have no recollection of asking about her, and that the tape-recorded interview contains no indication that the subject arose.

I also testified that I had a conversation with a third person on June 23, 2003. The person was I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, and we talked on the phone. I told him I was sending to him an 18-page list of questions I wanted to ask Vice President Cheney. On page 5 of that list there was a question about "yellowcake" and the October 2002 National Intelligence Estimate regarding Iraq's weapons programs. I testified that I believed I had both the 18-page question list and the question list from the June 20 interview with the phrase "Joe Wilson's wife" on my desk during this discussion. I testified that I have no recollection that Wilson or his wife was discussed, and I have no notes of the conversation."

Trajan, I agree that no one has been indicted for a violation of the statute, and I don't think there will be any indictment based upon that statute. Now, if you saw the indictment, Fitzgerald provided the statute that addresses the improper releasing of classified information. Thus, that could be a statute that was violated, although I am not saying it definitely was. BUt I found it strange that Fitzgerald cited that statute without any discussion whether someone had violated it.

You are entitled to think that Libby's indictment will amount to nothing. I disagree. Everyone thought that Watergate would amount to nothing, and look what happened there.....
 
Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Actually you can thank her lying husband Joe Wilson for that as he was introducing her all over town as my wife the CIA agent, oh and vannity fair posting there faces all over their magazine as they were trying to live the media darling fame and fortune life style. But ya it was Novak . . . not.

HAY MR. WILSON! Fess up!

That's a smear that Fox et.al has tried to spread. I saw a hilarious montage on how that lie spread through Fox like a snowflake turning into a sbnowman. It's rumor and innuendo and you're buying it hook line and sinker.

Where are your sources my friend? Wilson's neighbors and family (outside of her husband) had no idea she was an operative.
 
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hipsterdufus said:
That's a smear that Fox et.al has tried to spread. I saw a hilarious montage on how that lie spread through Fox. It's rumor and innuendo and you're buying it hook line and sinkrer.

Where are your sources my friend?
Wilson's neighbors and family (outside of her husband) had no idea she was an operative.

How's Plame's supervisor strike ya partna:

A former CIA covert agent who supervised Mrs. Plame early in her career yesterday took issue with her identification as an "undercover agent," saying that she worked for more than five years at the agency's headquarters in Langley and that most of her neighbors and friends knew that she was a CIA employee.
"She made no bones about the fact that she was an agency employee and her husband was a diplomat," Fred Rustmann, a covert agent from 1966 to 1990, told The Washington Times.
"Her neighbors knew this, her friends knew this, his friends knew this. A lot of blame could be put on to central cover staff and the agency because they weren't minding the store here. ... The agency never changed her cover status."
Mr. Rustmann, who spent 20 of his 24 years in the agency under "nonofficial cover" -- also known as a NOC, the same status as the wife of Mr. Wilson -- also said that she worked under extremely light cover.
In addition, Mrs. Plame hadn't been out as an NOC since 1997, when she returned from her last assignment, married Mr. Wilson and had twins, USA Today reported yesterday.
The distinction matters because a law that forbids disclosing the name of undercover CIA operatives applies to agents that had been on overseas assignment "within the last five years."
"She was home for such a long time, she went to work every day at Langley, she was in an analytical type job, she was married to a high-profile diplomat with two kids," Mr. Rustmann said. "Most people who knew Valerie and her husband, I think, would have thought that she was an overt CIA employee."

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20...1257-9887r.htm
 
Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Fitzgerald has stated that Plame was not Covert

Fitzgerald DID NOT SAY THAT! He said that Libby was not being charged with knowingly outing a CIA agent.

This is what he said - from the transcript.

FITZGERALD: Let me say two things. Number one, I am not speaking to whether or not Valerie Wilson was covert. And anything I say is not intended to say anything beyond this: that she was a CIA officer from January 1st, 2002, forward.

I will confirm that her association with the CIA was classified at that time through July 2003. And all I'll say is that, look, we have not made any allegation that Mr. Libby knowingly, intentionally outed a covert agent.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/28/AR2005102801340.html
 
Trajan Octavian Titus said:
How's Plame's supervisor strike ya partna:

A former CIA covert agent who supervised Mrs. Plame early in her career yesterday took issue with her identification as an "undercover agent," saying that she worked for more than five years at the agency's headquarters in Langley and that most of her neighbors and friends knew that she was a CIA employee.
"She made no bones about the fact that she was an agency employee and her husband was a diplomat," Fred Rustmann, a covert agent from 1966 to 1990, told The Washington Times.
"Her neighbors knew this, her friends knew this, his friends knew this. A lot of blame could be put on to central cover staff and the agency because they weren't minding the store here. ... The agency never changed her cover status."
Mr. Rustmann, who spent 20 of his 24 years in the agency under "nonofficial cover" -- also known as a NOC, the same status as the wife of Mr. Wilson -- also said that she worked under extremely light cover.
In addition, Mrs. Plame hadn't been out as an NOC since 1997, when she returned from her last assignment, married Mr. Wilson and had twins, USA Today reported yesterday.
The distinction matters because a law that forbids disclosing the name of undercover CIA operatives applies to agents that had been on overseas assignment "within the last five years."
"She was home for such a long time, she went to work every day at Langley, she was in an analytical type job, she was married to a high-profile diplomat with two kids," Mr. Rustmann said. "Most people who knew Valerie and her husband, I think, would have thought that she was an overt CIA employee."

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20...1257-9887r.htm

Trajan, that website does not work. Is this the article?

http://mediamatters.org/items/200511040014

On the October 31 broadcast of the nationally syndicated radio show The Radio Factor with Bill O'Reilly, guest host Andrew P. Napolitano -- who serves as Fox News' senior judicial analyst -- cited "at least one" of his Fox News colleagues who Napolitano said claimed to have been present at a party where former ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV introduced Valerie Plame as "my CIA operative wife."

OMG, this is great entertainment! :2funny:
 
Even her neighbors and friends for 5 years had no idea:

David and Victoria Tillotson knew Valerie Plame as a neighbor and friend for more than five years. Plame was, the Tillotsons believed, an international economic consultant, taking occasional trips abroad while looking after her young children in an upper-class enclave of Northwest Washington. . . .

Tillotson recalled that one day in early July 2003, Wilson pulled him aside and told him to look for an op-ed piece he was writing in The New York Times. In that article, Wilson wrote that ''some of the intelligence related to Iraq's nuclear weapons program was twisted to exaggerate the Iraq threat." More than a week later, on July 14, the identity of Wilson's wife was reported by Novak in a column.

''We were stunned, despite the fact that we knew them well," Tillotson said, referring to Plame and her husband. ''We understood she worked for some company doing economic consulting on an international basis. I heard my wife in the kitchen saying, 'No, that can't be.' It didn't fit the person we knew at all."

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/w.../10/27/the_spy_next_door_left_couple_in_dark/
 
aps said:
Trajan, that website does not work. Is this the article?

http://mediamatters.org/items/200511040014

On the October 31 broadcast of the nationally syndicated radio show The Radio Factor with Bill O'Reilly, guest host Andrew P. Napolitano -- who serves as Fox News' senior judicial analyst -- cited "at least one" of his Fox News colleagues who Napolitano said claimed to have been present at a party where former ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV introduced Valerie Plame as "my CIA operative wife."

OMG, this is great entertainment! :2funny:

Nope that claim came from Plame's supervisor at the CIA, Plame was not protected as a covert agent because she had not been overseas for more than five years SHE WAS NOT COVERT!!! Classified is not the same thing as covert. There is no crime here except for the accusation that Libby lied to FBI agents about who he got the information about Plame from; from the white house or a journalist, a claim which as we speak is being debunked by Libby's defense team and Woodrow the reporter who gave him the info himself. You have no case, you have no case against Rove, you have no case against Cheney, and now the only case that you people had you're going to lose. Remember that antiquated seldom used law of innocent until proven guilty, welp Libby's using it and he's going to be exonerated mark my words.

Merry Christmas and have a shitty new year. :mrgreen:

Oh here's where that original info that you cited came from:

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20050715-121257-9887r.htm
 
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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Nor did he say that she was covert so why don't you stop making the claim as such?

Trajan, why not just admit that you mis-wrote. It's no big deal. Based on the definition of "covert," it appears she does not meet it. I also have not seen hipster say she was covert.
 
aps said:
Trajan, that website does not work. Is this the article?

http://mediamatters.org/items/200511040014

On the October 31 broadcast of the nationally syndicated radio show The Radio Factor with Bill O'Reilly, guest host Andrew P. Napolitano -- who serves as Fox News' senior judicial analyst -- cited "at least one" of his Fox News colleagues who Napolitano said claimed to have been present at a party where former ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV introduced Valerie Plame as "my CIA operative wife."

OMG, this is great entertainment! :2funny:

APS - Bingo! That's it. I heard he said that she said that he said.

It sounds like Rumspeak:

“You know,there are known knowns; there are things we may know. We also know that there are known unknowns; that is to say, we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns — the ones we don’t know we don’t know.” :confused:

Donald Rumsfeld
 
Trajan Octavian Titus said:

Your link is no good. Maybe Rev.Moon, owner of the Washington Times,
is blocking my access - :roll:

sun_moon130.jpg


He claims he is better than Jesus, and is going to take over the world!

http://www.whatsmells.com/moonie_01.rm
 
Trajan Octavian Titus said:
because I'm a stubborn ass-hole . . . why else?

LOL! Oh, Trajan, I love that you have a sense of humor! :2wave:
 
Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Nope that claim came from Plame's supervisor at the CIA, Plame was not protected as a covert agent because she had not been overseas for more than five years SHE WAS NOT COVERT!!! Classified is not the same thing as covert. There is no crime here except for the accusation that Libby lied to FBI agents about who he got the information about Plame from; from the white house or a journalist, a claim which as we speak is being debunked by Libby's defense team and Woodrow the reporter who gave him the info himself. You have no case, you have no case against Rove, you have no case against Cheney, and now the only case that you people had you're going to lose. Remember that antiquated seldom used law of innocent until proven guilty, welp Libby's using it and he's going to be exonerated mark my words.

Merry Christmas and have a shitty new year. :mrgreen:

Oh here's where that original info that you cited came from:

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20050715-121257-9887r.htm

You are making me laugh! I agree, classified does not mean covert. This is one of the few thigns you and I agree on. ;)

Trajan, let's wait and see how this plays out. I am not saying that there is definitely a case, but there was enough evidence for the grand jury to indict Scooter Libby. It's possible that Rove won't get indicted, but it's not common for a special prosecutor to reconvene a grand jury unless something may happen.

Now, Mr. stubborn ass-hole, will you concede defeat if Rove gets indicted? :lol: What about if Libby is convicted? :lol: I know you can do it.
 
aps said:
You are making me laugh! I agree, classified does not mean covert. This is one of the few thigns you and I agree on. ;)

Trajan, let's wait and see how this plays out. I am not saying that there is definitely a case, but there was enough evidence for the grand jury to indict Scooter Libby. It's possible that Rove won't get indicted, but it's not common for a special prosecutor to reconvene a grand jury unless something may happen.

Now, Mr. stubborn ass-hole, will you concede defeat if Rove gets indicted? :lol: What about if Libby is convicted? :lol: I know you can do it.

Innocent until proven guilty so I will not concede defeat until they're convicted.
 
Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Innocent until proven guilty so I will not concede defeat until they're convicted.

I said IF. I wasn't saying they are guilty (although they are ;)).
 
Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Good to see that the whole; innocent until proven guilty point, I was trying to make didn't fall on deaf ears. :roll: :lol:

Alright there, tough guy. :cool:
 
Curtain Call For NoFacts

Curtain Call For NoFacts
Robert Novak's Curtain Call
We just received a press release from CNN:

In a wide-ranging interview, columnist Robert Novak will speak with CNN’s Wolf Blitzer on the Friday, Dec. 23, edition of The Situation Room. Their conversation will air in the 4 and 7 p.m. hours of The Situation Room.

The interview marks the final CNN appearance for Novak, who concludes a 25-year career with the network at the end of the month.


Poor guy. He may be a "douchebag of liberty," but no one whould have to spend their last day of work in the Situation Room. Worst. Retirement party. Ever.— DCEIVER
http://www.wonkette.com/politics/robert-novak/robert-novaks-curtain-call-144818.php
 
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