Bloomberg honors Boston Bomber as victim of gun violence

[iguanaman]

Not sure I agree. They are not victims. They chose to end their own lives, which is their right.

Suicide is a mental disorder, it is not a "right"

 

[iguanaman]

OK, someone who kills themselves with a gun (or whatever else they use) will of course be alive had they not killed themselves. Cannot argue that logic. What is your proposed solution? How would you propose we prevent successful suicides?

Education about the dangers of a gun around the mentally unstable would be nice. I would like to see parents of children that commit suicide with their gun prosecuted for criminal negligence also. We punish things we want less of.

 

[Federalist]

Suicide is a mental disorder, it is not a "right"

Are you saying that people don't have a right to control their own bodies?

 

[Spartacus FPV]

Suicide is a mental disorder, it is not a "right"

A mental disorder? I can imagine a great many circumstances where suicide is preferable and would be glad of the fact that I could count on a gun to get the job done.

Have you never heard of anyone put out of their misery? There are far worse fates than death.

 

[BretJ]

Education about the dangers of a gun around the mentally unstable would be nice. I would like to see parents of children that commit suicide with their gun prosecuted for criminal negligence also. We punish things we want less of.

Awesome idea. Should we just limit prosecution to firearms suicides? What about extending prosecution to parents who leave medications or alcohol unsecured after ignoring all the suicidal warning signs? Negligence is negligence and one should be made to suffer the consequences of losing a child to suicide.

 

[BretJ]

Nothing is wrong about that what so ever. The problem is that how many suicidal people know they are at risk?
And you just called the mother of the Sandy Hook shooter a moron. Everything I read about her said she was of pretty normal intelligence and yet was still clueless about the dangers of her "hobby" to her son and others. She was a victim of the lack of education that gun buyers have about the subject. All I hear on this board is how fun and rewarding gun ownership is and next to nothing about what horrors a gun can do to a family.

Nope. Not a moron. I am sure she was aware of the dangers but felt the son she loved was trustworthy and not a danger

They are rewarding and anyone who is unaware of the destruction they are capable of is a moron. Only a moron would drink and drive. If everyone knew how dangerous it is to the lives of others they would not.

 

[iguanaman]

Awesome idea. Should we just limit prosecution to firearms suicides? What about extending prosecution to parents who leave medications or alcohol unsecured after ignoring all the suicidal warning signs? Negligence is negligence and one should be made to suffer the consequences of losing a child to suicide.

The odd thing is that pills are so ineffective at suicide that their availability would most likely result in the person getting professional help when he recovered. Hardly a reason to prosecute anyone there. I believe there are prosecutions for allowing alcohol to minors for any reason already but suicide by alcohol overdose is a difficult thing to pull off anyway.
You keep drawing attention from the "elephant in the room"...... over 50% of successful suicides are from gunshots. Meaning that suicides by bullets outnumber all the other methods put together.

 

[BretJ]

The odd thing is that pills are so ineffective at suicide that their availability would most likely result in the person getting professional help when he recovered. Hardly a reason to prosecute anyone there. I believe there are prosecutions for allowing alcohol to minors for any reason already but suicide by alcohol overdose is a difficult thing to pull off anyway.
You keep drawing attention from the "elephant in the room"...... over 50% of successful suicides are from gunshots. Meaning that suicides by bullets outnumber all the other methods put together.

No gorilla in the room. Everyone understands the stats. Nobody has a problem letting gun owners know those stats. I am sure most if not all do. Like I stated, if you do not already know, then you are a moron.
But you seem to be intent on singling out a specific group for special prosecutorial attention. Seems to me that if I am negligent in allowing access to any means used to successfully commit suicide, I should be prosecuted if we are holding people responsible for the illegal acts of others. Suicide by whatever means is tragic. But I will point out that alcohol does affect the brain directly and makes it more likely you will follow through on a suicidal tendency. Liquid courage is what the researchers of the study called alcohol.

I have had my daughter Baker Acted on two occasions. She is now in a 24 hour managed group home. I understood the risks and was fully aware beforehand. I was lucky and saw the warning signs because they are drilled into us while in the military. If you are truly concerned about saving lives, concentrate on teaching people how to recognize the warning signs prior to the act.

 

[iguanaman]

No gorilla in the room. Everyone understands the stats. Nobody has a problem letting gun owners know those stats. I am sure most if not all do. Like I stated, if you do not already know, then you are a moron.
But you seem to be intent on singling out a specific group for special prosecutorial attention. Seems to me that if I am negligent in allowing access to any means used to successfully commit suicide, I should be prosecuted if we are holding people responsible for the illegal acts of others. Suicide by whatever means is tragic. But I will point out that alcohol does affect the brain directly and makes it more likely you will follow through on a suicidal tendency. Liquid courage is what the researchers of the study called alcohol.

I have had my daughter Baker Acted on two occasions. She is now in a 24 hour managed group home. I understood the risks and was fully aware beforehand. I was lucky and saw the warning signs because they are drilled into us while in the military. If you are truly concerned about saving lives, concentrate on teaching people how to recognize the warning signs prior to the act.

Given what you said about recognizing the warning signs, which is easier? To keep you gun locked up so your children can't use it or becoming a psychologist so you can adequately assess whether someone in your household is at risk? Which do you think would be more effective at preventing children from shooting themselves (and others) with their parents gun?

 

[BretJ]

Given what you said about recognizing the warning signs, which is easier? To keep you gun locked up so your children can't use it or becoming a psychologist so you can adequately assess whether someone in your household is at risk? Which do you think would be more effective at preventing children from shooting themselves (and others) with their parents gun?

It's "easier" to be aware of the warning signs and seek help assuming the signs there. I do not have an issue with keeping them locked up. I keep a loaded weapon in the home when I am home. Locked up when I am not.
I simply have an issue with your belief that the item responsible for a suicide determines if negligence warrants criminal charges. If I know my son is suicidal, and he takes my keys while I am away, then drives it into a bridge abutment, am I criminally negligent? I am saying that if you are being inconsistent with your criteria for determining who should be charged. Charge everyone regardless of method or I have to question the motive.

 

[blackjack50]

The odd thing is that pills are so ineffective at suicide that their availability would most likely result in the person getting professional help when he recovered. Hardly a reason to prosecute anyone there. I believe there are prosecutions for allowing alcohol to minors for any reason already but suicide by alcohol overdose is a difficult thing to pull off anyway.
You keep drawing attention from the "elephant in the room"...... over 50% of successful suicides are from gunshots. Meaning that suicides by bullets outnumber all the other methods put together.

What I am about to say will sound cynical. Maybe it is? I honestly don't care though.

A big fat giant who cares to the suicide rate. Here is why. A gun has NOTHING to do with the MOTIVE behind suicide. This is a giant Misdirection that only naive people would follow. Do you know why?

Statistically speaking I am more likely to commit suicide with a gun because I own one. Guess what. I will NEVER commit suicide. I am a selfish SOB who is too damn fond of breathing. I am a fighter. I will not leave this planet on my own accord either. I will be dragged off this planet kicking and screaming at death saying, "F you I am not ready!!! I don't care who has to change my diapers!!! The government stole soo much out of my account for social security I am going to bleed that dry or they are going to assassinate me for living too damn long!"

Do you get my point? Statistics mean NOTHING on a case to case basis. My odds aren't up because I won't commit suicide. Period.

Now I understand that you will want to talk about societal risk. Why? What is your point? That suicide is a reason to restrict firearms? I mean you are talking about it in the gun control forum. Are you telling me guns cause suicide? Well if that were the case...I wouldn't call it suicide.

Here is the thing. Suicide is an act committed by a person. A person who has to seek to make that decision. To blame guns is to ignore the REAL problem. I mean. If that were the case...we shouldn't let people live in Alaska and we should damn sure ban holidays. And according to a local cop...the weekend before graduation day from the local university is also known as, "I am going to kill myself weekend." (Yes I know the last one is more anecdotal).

So. Are you posing more legislation on firearms based on suicides? Because as it is...if someone else knows you are a danger to yourself or others...they CAN Baker Act(Florida name...all states have a form of it) and you are mandatorily placed under mental health care. You damn sure wont have a gun in there.

Are you saying that there is something more the government can do other than provide the means to prevent suicide through a Baker Act? You could fund better methods of detection. Or should we just attack the tool for "crime?" Not the reason behind it.

Dammit. Now we need to start creating courts and getting lawyer for ARs and Handguns and Zanex pills too. After all...they were involved in causing the crime.

 

[Lukas105]

How about the parents teach their children about the gun. I was brought up to respect the gun as the "equalizer" and how safely use one. These liberal parents who don't teach their children what it is and what is could do are the ones at fault. I've been shooting firearms since I was 6, and I was taught how and what reasons that I should use one, long before that.

How should one's child know what it even is, if their parents don't TEACH them the rights and wrong of the world.

Given what you said about recognizing the warning signs, which is easier? To keep you gun locked up so your children can't use it or becoming a psychologist so you can adequately assess whether someone in your household is at risk? Which do you think would be more effective at preventing children from shooting themselves (and others) with their parents gun?

 

[iguanaman]

How about the parents teach their children about the gun. I was brought up to respect the gun as the "equalizer" and how safely use one. These liberal parents who don't teach their children what it is and what is could do are the ones at fault. I've been shooting firearms since I was 6, and I was taught how and what reasons that I should use one, long before that.

How should one's child know what it even is, if their parents don't TEACH them the rights and wrong of the world.

6 years old is too young for a child to handle a gun. Your parents were abusers. Suicide is a mental illness and has nothing whatsoever to do with gun "awareness".

 

[Lukas105]

Suicide has nothing to do with guns, It IS a mental illness no matter by what means it is committed.

6 years old is too young for a child to handle a gun. Your parents were abusers. Suicide is a mental illness and has nothing whatsoever to do with gun "awareness".