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'Blair is world's worst terrorist': families of Iraq war victims on Chilcot report

Andalublue

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Damning indictment of Blair, military and intelligence chiefs and criminally compliant MPs. That's the conclusion of the Chilcot report into Britain's role in the Iraqi invasion.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...s-of-iraq-war-victims-react-to-chilcot-report

Eight months before the invasion took place, and months even before he'd had detailed briefings on practicalities and WMD inspections, Blair agreed to support Bush's neo-con adventure unreservedly. The phrase that will act as Blair's epitaph into history is "With you, whatever."

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...blair-epitaph-writers-verdicts-chilcot-report

No doubt the parliamentary reaction to the report will be to play down every damning detail and soft-soap the unavoidable conclusion that the British political and military establishment made the biggest blunder since appeasement in the 1930s. Once again, Jeremy Corbyn speaks for the unheard and ignored mass of British people who fiercely opposed Blair's rush to war. And once again, the Blairite wing of the party shows how out of touch it is by heckling their leader's speech to the Commons.

Jeremy Corbyn told to 'sit down and shut up' in Commons as he criticises Iraq War after publication of Chilcot report | UK Politics | News | The Independent
 

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Re: 'Blair is world's worst terrorist': families of Iraq war victims on Chilcot repor

Damning indictment of Blair, military and intelligence chiefs and criminally compliant MPs. That's the conclusion of the Chilcot report into Britain's role in the Iraqi invasion.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...s-of-iraq-war-victims-react-to-chilcot-report

Eight months before the invasion took place, and months even before he'd had detailed briefings on practicalities and WMD inspections, Blair agreed to support Bush's neo-con adventure unreservedly. The phrase that will act as Blair's epitaph into history is "With you, whatever."

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...blair-epitaph-writers-verdicts-chilcot-report

No doubt the parliamentary reaction to the report will be to play down every damning detail and soft-soap the unavoidable conclusion that the British political and military establishment made the biggest blunder since appeasement in the 1930s. Once again, Jeremy Corbyn speaks for the unheard and ignored mass of British people who fiercely opposed Blair's rush to war. And once again, the Blairite wing of the party shows how out of touch it is by heckling their leader's speech to the Commons.

Jeremy Corbyn told to 'sit down and shut up' in Commons as he criticises Iraq War after publication of Chilcot report | UK Politics | News | The Independent

Is there anything in the report that you didn't know. I haven't seen is yet, but The Guardian doesn't show anything that is new or surprises me. So, I guess the invasion was legitimate and legal. Maybe it was undertaken too early and probably the international community should have done more to pacify the country after combat was over. Very probably the war would not have happened, had Germany and France not sided with Putin and Saddam during the negotiations between the UN and Saddam. But the entry is poorly discussed in the article, so let's read the primary document instead of grabbing the lime lite in the attempt to control the spin.
 

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Re: 'Blair is world's worst terrorist': families of Iraq war victims on Chilcot repor

I normally have a lot of time for Steve Richards, but I think he's been a little generous to Bliar here.

" ...He sought a third way. He persuaded Bush to go to the UN, knowing that if the invasion was backed by UN resolutions he would keep a big tent of support in place in the UK and constrain the wilder elements of the Bush administration.

In persuading Bush to go to the UN he pledged UK support for military action. The third way UN route meant that Blair had no choice but to frame the argument for the invasion solely in terms of Saddam’s WMD and UN resolutions. For once, his third way was not an escape but a trap. When he became unpopular he also had no choice but to make a virtue of his shrinking big tent by becoming a leader who “does the right thing” irrespective of popularity.

There is no point guessing whether or not Blair believed the hopelessly speculative intelligence or not. He had to believe it. He was putting a case in a desperate attempt to persuade parliament, the electorate and the media. Of course he genuinely saw a case for war. No human being could do what he did without believing there was a case. But in different political circumstances Blair could have applied his forensic intelligence to recognising the case for not going to war. ..."

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...droidApp_Tweet
 

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Re: 'Blair is world's worst terrorist': families of Iraq war victims on Chilcot repor

You know, between January 3 and April 12, 2003, 36 million people across the globe took part in almost 3,000 anti‑war protests and the demonstrations on February 15, 2003 in London still remain the largest political demonstration in the city's history.

It fell on deaf ears. Blair never listened and the invasion of Iraq began just over a month later. It’s difficult to accept that such a united display of people power on Feb,15 could have proven to be so ineffectual and was so easily disregarded and ignored.
 

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Re: 'Blair is world's worst terrorist': families of Iraq war victims on Chilcot repor

and Blair remains true to form, emitting a crocodile's tears apology to then embark on his usual path of prevarication.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jul/06/tony-blair-deliberately-exaggerated-threat-from-iraq-chilcot-report-war-inquiry

He must be truly delusional by now if he still believes he can talk himself into being "one of the great good ones" in history.

He'd do it again and said as much.
 

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Re: 'Blair is world's worst terrorist': families of Iraq war victims on Chilcot repor

O’Connor does her brother a disservice. He knew the risk we all did and no one put a gun to his head forcing him to join.
 

Andalublue

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Re: 'Blair is world's worst terrorist': families of Iraq war victims on Chilcot repor

You know, between January 3 and April 12, 2003, 36 million people across the globe took part in almost 3,000 anti‑war protests and the demonstrations on February 15, 2003 in London still remain the largest political demonstration in the city's history.

It fell on deaf ears. Blair never listened and the invasion of Iraq began just over a month later. It’s difficult to accept that such a united display of people power on Feb,15 could have proven to be so ineffectual and was so easily disregarded and ignored.

Unfortunately, I think that Blair had by that time become cocooned in a bubble of group think driven by a false, over enthusiastic desire to back up the US position no matter what, a refusal to listen to conflicting advice, the over-reliance on inaccurate intelligence, and a complete disregard for public sentiment or support for his actions.

I went on that march. We were all blown away by the unanimity of the public opinion on the war. I think UK opinion was about 70%+ against the war. I also think we all thought, "There's no way Blair can refuse to take notice of this degree of opposition." How wrong we were in that, but how right we were in our opposition, as history has proved.
 

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Re: 'Blair is world's worst terrorist': families of Iraq war victims on Chilcot repor

and Blair remains true to form, emitting a crocodile's tears apology to then embark on his usual path of prevarication.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jul/06/tony-blair-deliberately-exaggerated-threat-from-iraq-chilcot-report-war-inquiry

He must be truly delusional by now if he still believes he can talk himself into being "one of the great good ones" in history.

He'd do it again and said as much.

He turns my stomach. He was always a consummate actor, and he did it again today. I don't believe his contrition for one second and you're right, any contrition must be disregarded given his affirmation that he'd make exactly the same mistake again, given the chance. That's not contrition, that's hubris.
 

Andalublue

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Re: 'Blair is world's worst terrorist': families of Iraq war victims on Chilcot repor

O’Connor does her brother a disservice. He knew the risk we all did and no one put a gun to his head forcing him to join.

I don't believe anyone signs up to be taken into illegitimate conflicts that are poorly organised, undermined by political considerations, badly supplied and so inept that British forces had to do deals with insurgents they were meant to be fighting.

I'm just watching Newsnight and a certain Lt Gen Jonathan Riley has just outlined the extent of the inadequate preparation and horrific equipment shortages that made the British forces incapable of doing the job they were asked to do.

Gen. Mike Jackson is making a rotten fist of justifying the effort. He was a key figure in persuading the government that Britain had the military capability to run both the Afghan and Iraqi campaigns. He was one of those gung-ho advisors that pushed Blair ever-closer to disaster, so he would say that, wouldn't he? Horrible contribution.

The wife of an officer killed in Basra showed laudable moderation in not punching Jackson in the face.
 

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Re: 'Blair is world's worst terrorist': families of Iraq war victims on Chilcot repor

Wow! What an amazing edition of Newsnight I've been watching. It just ended on Robin Cook's resignation speech. It's featured wonderful, honest and telling contributions from Tory MP Rory Stewart, academic Will Self
and journalist Roula Khalaf.

If anyone's engaged with this issue I'd really advise them to watch it on the BBC iPlayer if they can, and on YouTube when it reaches it.
 

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Re: 'Blair is world's worst terrorist': families of Iraq war victims on Chilcot repor

Wow! What an amazing edition of Newsnight I've been watching. It just ended on Robin Cook's resignation speech. It's featured wonderful, honest and telling contributions from Tory MP Rory Stewart, academic Will Self
and journalist Roula Khalaf.

If anyone's engaged with this issue I'd really advise them to watch it on the BBC iPlayer if they can, and on YouTube when it reaches it.

What's Newsnight? I've never heard of it.
 

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Re: 'Blair is world's worst terrorist': families of Iraq war victims on Chilcot repor

As an American whose wife spent 42 months in Iraq and has both 60% disability combat PTSD as well as a near complete loss of faith in her government to show for it I want blood.

I also have a son who will become an active USA officer in a year, and has since the age of 7 wanted to be a combat officer. He is just finishing a 5 week ROTC school at FT Knox, which was complete junk he says, fully a waste of time. BTW he also says that most of his peer group cant make a decision on their own to save their lives. He is appalled.
 
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Andalublue

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Re: 'Blair is world's worst terrorist': families of Iraq war victims on Chilcot repor

I want blood.
In what sense? How do you want things to work out?

I also have a son who will become an active USA officer in a year, and has since the age of 7 wanted to be a combat officer.
And what do you hope for him? I sincerely hope his commanders don't defer unquestioningly to political expediency as I just watched the leader of British military forces do this evening.
 

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Re: 'Blair is world's worst terrorist': families of Iraq war victims on Chilcot repor

The bothersome thing in all this is how the superlative in the thread title (cited as said by others, not credited by the OP) doesn't even really apply. Where I totally understand the anger, frustrations and grief of the families and subsequently how emotiveness will lead to such descriptions, the appalling truth is that those responsible are of appalling mediocrity.

Were they evil villains one would at least have something to get one's teeth into without any equivocation possible.

But these "leaders" are so damn average. Average intelligence, average skills, average integrity, average courage, average sense of responsibility, average absence of sense of honor, average everything, in short so far removed from even beginning hints of excellence that one need worry as to what the hell one gets to vote for at all. And then gets governed and led by.

From Downing Street to Whitehall to Westminster and then on to Congress, the Pentagon and the Oval Office, what a bunch of mediocre inconsequential twits playing at being THE leaders of nations and THE kings of the field.

Heck, even a supreme piece of dung like Saddam had more character.
 

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Re: 'Blair is world's worst terrorist': families of Iraq war victims on Chilcot repor

Unfortunately, I think that Blair had by that time become cocooned in a bubble of group think driven by a false, over enthusiastic desire to back up the US position no matter what, a refusal to listen to conflicting advice, the over-reliance on inaccurate intelligence, and a complete disregard for public sentiment or support for his actions.

I went on that march. We were all blown away by the unanimity of the public opinion on the war. I think UK opinion was about 70%+ against the war. I also think we all thought, "There's no way Blair can refuse to take notice of this degree of opposition." How wrong we were in that, but how right we were in our opposition, as history has proved.

Bush was actually talking about attacking Iraq within 24 hours of 9/11.

At that time he knew he would have to do something in order to secure his second term and Iraq was the perfect patsy given attacking Saudi Arabia where it was planned financed and executed by their citizens would be quite out of the question. The whole muslim world would have risen up against the US

The special relationship was at the very core of the UK body politic and Blair saw a major opportunity post 9/11 to bolster that by ingratiating himself and our country with the US policy and its need for retribution . This is why the Iraq operation bypassed all the legal checks and balances that would normally have prevailed to stop it. Legalities were therefore bent or bypassed to fit predetermined policy at the very outset :(
 

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Re: 'Blair is world's worst terrorist': families of Iraq war victims on Chilcot repor

A good reason not to watch it. The BBC is biased tool of globalists and progressive fascists.

Don't be silly.
 

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Re: 'Blair is world's worst terrorist': families of Iraq war victims on Chilcot repor

I don't believe anyone signs up to be taken into illegitimate conflicts that are poorly organised, undermined by political considerations, badly supplied and so inept that British forces had to do deals with insurgents they were meant to be fighting.

I'm just watching Newsnight and a certain Lt Gen Jonathan Riley has just outlined the extent of the inadequate preparation and horrific equipment shortages that made the British forces incapable of doing the job they were asked to do.

Gen. Mike Jackson is making a rotten fist of justifying the effort. He was a key figure in persuading the government that Britain had the military capability to run both the Afghan and Iraqi campaigns. He was one of those gung-ho advisors that pushed Blair ever-closer to disaster, so he would say that, wouldn't he? Horrible contribution.

The wife of an officer killed in Basra showed laudable moderation in not punching Jackson in the face.



We lost 179 in Operation Telic, an operation that lasted 8 years. Considering the difficulties faced, enemies, climate and logistics that was a very small price to pay.
I have no doubt that Saddam left to his own devices would of continued to break international law, wage war on his own people, the region and eventually that would of manifested into a much larger threat.

I'm proud of the job we did in Iraq as are most veterans of that conflict. Unfortunately the dead can't speak.
 
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Andalublue

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Re: 'Blair is world's worst terrorist': families of Iraq war victims on Chilcot repor

We lost 179 in Operation Telic, an operation that lasted 8 years. Considering the difficulties faced, enemies, climate and logistics that was a very small price to pay.
Small price to pay for removing Saddam? Respectfully Higgins, I disagree.

I have no doubt that Saddam left to his own devices would of continued to break international law, wage war on his own people, the region and eventually that would of manifested into a much larger threat.
We simply removed a dictator and replaced it with anarchy. I don't think it's too extreme a position to take to say that what replaced Saddam - Mokhtada al-Sadr, AQ and ISIS - was worse than Saddam.

I'm proud of the job we did in Iraq as are most veterans of that conflict. Unfortunately the dead can't speak.
No, the dead can't speak, but their widows and bereaved families can and their verdict on the rush to war and the disastrous pursuit of it is fairly damning.
 

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Re: 'Blair is world's worst terrorist': families of Iraq war victims on Chilcot repor

We lost 179 in Operation Telic, an operation that lasted 8 years. Considering the difficulties faced, enemies, climate and logistics that was a very small price to pay.
I have no doubt that Saddam left to his own devices would of continued to break international law, wage war on his own people, the region and eventually that would of manifested into a much larger threat.

I'm proud of the job we did in Iraq as are most veterans of that conflict. Unfortunately the dead can't speak.

It was ever the price of the grunt on the ground to try and act out the orders of those above who make the decisions. The unspoken military covenant is that we sign up and may give our lives but also on the other hand that those who send us into danger do so with a real understanding of why we are there, what we are supposed to do and that they should also make sure we are as well equipped and trained to do that job.

The men on the ground such as you did your best and believed in the mission however when you look at it dispassionately and look at the evidence, you will see that our forces were given a horrible task, that the equipment wasn't right and that the mission itself was wrong. Nobody blames the troops - it's the mission itself that was wrong and those that sent you and others like you into battle that were wrong.
 

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Re: 'Blair is world's worst terrorist': families of Iraq war victims on Chilcot repor

It was ever the price of the grunt on the ground to try and act out the orders of those above who make the decisions. The unspoken military covenant is that we sign up and may give our lives but also on the other hand that those who send us into danger do so with a real understanding of why we are there, what we are supposed to do and that they should also make sure we are as well equipped and trained to do that job.

The men on the ground such as you did your best and believed in the mission however when you look at it dispassionately and look at the evidence, you will see that our forces were given a horrible task, that the equipment wasn't right and that the mission itself was wrong. Nobody blames the troops - it's the mission itself that was wrong and those that sent you and others like you into battle that were wrong.

Conversely, during Desert Storm we had justification and a strong mandate. That was the time to go into Iraq, properly.
 

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Re: 'Blair is world's worst terrorist': families of Iraq war victims on Chilcot repor

We lost 179 in Operation Telic, an operation that lasted 8 years. Considering the difficulties faced, enemies, climate and logistics that was a very small price to pay.

As a Falklands veteran myself Higgins I respectfully disagree. We sent our troops into combat in Iraq to ingratiate and align ourselves with the wayward policies of a stupid president in another nation. We needed to show to the US that our alliance still had some utility for them post Cold War and this seemed like the perfect vehicle for doing so. Preservation of the so called 'special relationship' with the US overrides everything and has been at the core of the UK body politic since WW2.

I have no doubt that Saddam left to his own devices would of continued to break international law, wage war on his own people, the region and eventually that would of manifested into a much larger threat.

Nonsense Hussen had been contained for 12 years and there was nothing to suggest he could not have been contained in the future. Now we are left with anarchy and terrorism all over the world from fanatical groups who filled the power vacuum we left behind. Hussein was at least the devil we knew

I'm proud of the job we did in Iraq as are most veterans of that conflict. Unfortunately the dead can't speak.

Sadly you lost and their sacrifice was ultimately in vain. Plenty of people warned of the consequences of this beforehand but they were ignored in the rush to suck up to uncle Sam
 
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Re: 'Blair is world's worst terrorist': families of Iraq war victims on Chilcot repor

You know, between January 3 and April 12, 2003, 36 million people across the globe took part in almost 3,000 anti‑war protests and the demonstrations on February 15, 2003 in London still remain the largest political demonstration in the city's history.

It fell on deaf ears. Blair never listened and the invasion of Iraq began just over a month later. It’s difficult to accept that such a united display of people power on Feb,15 could have proven to be so ineffectual and was so easily disregarded and ignored.

The beginning of the end.
 
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