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Black person. Injustice. Can I put you in prison for $50,000 per year?

Craig234

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There's the problem this man was wrongly convicted. There's the problem he was sentenced to life in prison. There's the problem it took 44 years to correct. There's the problem that NC thinks $50,000 a year is a fine compensation for an innocent person imprisoned for a year. And there's the problem that they cap that at 15 years, so he got nothing for the other 29 years.

Ronnie Long: After spending 44 years in prison for a crime he didn't commit, this man says his life is worth more than $750,000 - CNN
 

Felis Leo

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There's the problem this man was wrongly convicted. There's the problem he was sentenced to life in prison. There's the problem it took 44 years to correct. There's the problem that NC thinks $50,000 a year is a fine compensation for an innocent person imprisoned for a year. And there's the problem that they cap that at 15 years, so he got nothing for the other 29 years.

Ronnie Long: After spending 44 years in prison for a crime he didn't commit, this man says his life is worth more than $750,000 - CNN

Disgusting. Give the man $2,200,000.00. Minimum.
 

Grizzly Adams

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Was there prosecutorial misconduct?

If yes, the prosecutor should spend as much time in prison as his victim, and be responsible for his restitution.

If not, unfortunate as this case is, he doesn't deserve a cent on principle.
 

Felis Leo

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Was there prosecutorial misconduct?

If yes, the prosecutor should spend as much time in prison as his victim, and be responsible for his restitution.

If not, unfortunate as this case is, he doesn't deserve a cent on principle.

Why not, Grizzly Adams? Why shouldn't the state compensate those who it has injured through a miscarriage of justice? What principle does power without account and abuse without redress serve beyond rex non potest peccare?
 
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Grizzly Adams

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Why not, Grizzly Adams? Why shouldn't the state compensate those who it has injured through a miscarriage of justice? What principle does this serve beyond rex non potest peccare?
If all the prosecution did was follow the evidence, is that really a "miscarriage of justice?" If there was no misconduct on the part of the prosecution, is the state really at fault?

I'm not against compensation for persons who are later found to be factually innocent where no misconduct exists, but I'm not convinced they are entitled to it as a matter of principle.
 

Felis Leo

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If all the prosecution did was follow the evidence, is that really a "miscarriage of justice?" If there was no misconduct on the part of the prosecution, is the state really at fault?

Well yes. When I say "miscarriage of justice", I mean it in the classic sense, that being when an innocent person is convicted and sentenced for a crime they did not commit. It is the greatest underminer of the legitimacy of state power and must be addressed with the greatest care by government.

I'm not against compensation for persons who are later found to be factually innocent where no misconduct exists, but I'm not convinced they are entitled to it as a matter of principle.

Well I must disagree, Grizzly Adams. And here is why: If the state takes your land from you against your desire, you are entitled to fair and reasonable compensation for the land that was taken from you. And if the state robs you of the best years of your life when you would have raised a family and pursued a career, you should be compensated for that stolen time. A government that can unjustly take your life, liberty or property without redress or compensation is per se illegitimate and invites its dissolution. Our country was founded having fought and won a war over that very subject.
 
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Grizzly Adams

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Well yes. When I say "miscarriage of justice", I mean it in the classic sense, that being when an innocent person is convicted and sentenced for a crime they did not commit. It is the greatest underminer of the legitimacy of state power and must be addressed with the greatest care by government.



Well I must disagree, Grizzly Adams. And here is why: If the state takes your land from you against your desire, you are entitled to fair and reasonable compensation for the land that was taken from you. And if the state robs you of the best years of your life when you would have raised a family and pursued a career, you should be compensated for that stolen time. A government that can unjustly take your life, liberty or property without redress or compensation is per se illegitimate and invites its dissolution. Our country was founded having fought and won a war over that very subject.
You are owed due process. Absent misconduct, you received it. If you have received due process, nothing has been stolen from you, and your conviction is not unjust. Again, I am not against compensation for wrongful convictions. I am just not convinced the convicted person is entitled to it as a matter of principle.
 

Excast

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You are owed due process. Absent misconduct, you received it. If you have received due process, nothing has been stolen from you, and your conviction is not unjust. Again, I am not against compensation for wrongful convictions. I am just not convinced the convicted person is entitled to it as a matter of principle.

If you are an innocent man who just spent 2/3 of your life in prison for a crime you didn't commit, you have had about as much stolen from you as is humanly possible other than your entire life.

The idea that a person in that situation is not entitled to some compensation is a rather strange "principle".
 

Yakshi

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A conviction for a crime one didn't commit is de facto injustice and requires a remedy.

That is something that society already understands. It isn't even the point of the article. The point was the miniscule value that a statute can put on a man's life.
 

Integrityrespec

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There's the problem this man was wrongly convicted. There's the problem he was sentenced to life in prison. There's the problem it took 44 years to correct. There's the problem that NC thinks $50,000 a year is a fine compensation for an innocent person imprisoned for a year. And there's the problem that they cap that at 15 years, so he got nothing for the other 29 years.

Ronnie Long: After spending 44 years in prison for a crime he didn't commit, this man says his life is worth more than $750,000 - CNN
I don't know how you compensate for that. But then I don't know how you compensate a family that has a member murdered in cold blood and the killer winds up out of prison at some point.
 

Yakshi

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I don't know how you compensate for that. But then I don't know how you compensate a family that has a member murdered in cold blood and the killer winds up out of prison at some point.

They of course can bring a wrongful death claim against the murderer. The compensation will be determined if they win.

This, on the contrary, is injustice by the state itself.
 

Court Jester

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Good old Ronnie Long. Sent to prison for 44 years based on a handful of circumstantial evidence and no definitive victim identification by the rape victim. The SAME Ronnie Long suspected in a prior burglary and rape, where he was not clearly identified, but where for some reason his SOCIAL SECURITY CARD was found at the scene of the crime. No charges filed there--- a "mystery" I guess?

Karma----it's a tricky bitch sometimes ain't it?
 

Yakshi

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The vice signaling gets old.
 

RabidAlpaca

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If all the prosecution did was follow the evidence, is that really a "miscarriage of justice?" If there was no misconduct on the part of the prosecution, is the state really at fault?

I'm not against compensation for persons who are later found to be factually innocent where no misconduct exists, but I'm not convinced they are entitled to it as a matter of principle.
Lol, arguing that convicting and imprisoning the wrong person for 44 years isn't a miscarriage of justice is one of the most disgusting things I've even seen someone say. You should be ashamed.

I don't know how you compensate for that. But then I don't know how you compensate a family that has a member murdered in cold blood and the killer winds up out of prison at some point.

Good old Ronnie Long. Sent to prison for 44 years based on a handful of circumstantial evidence and no definitive victim identification by the rape victim. The SAME Ronnie Long suspected in a prior burglary and rape, where he was not clearly identified, but where for some reason his SOCIAL SECURITY CARD was found at the scene of the crime. No charges filed there--- a "mystery" I guess?



Karma----it's a tricky bitch sometimes ain't it?

I think it's crazy and totally disgusting that you guys are trying to justify this. It's easy for you to dehumanize black people. I hope your "karma" leads you to being wrongfully imprisoned for a few decades so you have time to think about yourself and how you treat others.
 

Razoo

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There's the problem this man was wrongly convicted. There's the problem he was sentenced to life in prison. There's the problem it took 44 years to correct. There's the problem that NC thinks $50,000 a year is a fine compensation for an innocent person imprisoned for a year. And there's the problem that they cap that at 15 years, so he got nothing for the other 29 years.

Ronnie Long: After spending 44 years in prison for a crime he didn't commit, this man says his life is worth more than $750,000 - CNN

Yes it is ..... we taxpayers should be raising hell over private prisons having too much authority over OUR tax dollars.
 

Grizzly Adams

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If you are an innocent man who just spent 2/3 of your life in prison for a crime you didn't commit, you have had about as much stolen from you as is humanly possible other than your entire life.

The idea that a person in that situation is not entitled to some compensation is a rather strange "principle".
Labeling it "stolen" implies nefarious action on the part of the state. If there was, I am all in favor of mandatory compensation and even prison time for those involved in the malfeasance.

Again, if there was no malfeasance on the part of the prosecution, nothing was stolen. Though the wrong result was achieved, due process was afforded. That is what's owed to criminal defendants.
 

Excast

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Labeling it "stolen" implies nefarious action on the part of the state. If there was, I am all in favor of mandatory compensation and even prison time for those involved in the malfeasance.

Again, if there was no malfeasance on the part of the prosecution, nothing was stolen. Though the wrong result was achieved, due process was afforded. That is what's owed to criminal defendants.

We should strive to offer a little more than the bare minimum to those in our criminal justice system. We all have a limited amount of time on this planet. If we strip years away from an innocent person, whether through malfeasance or accident, attempting to make that right in some way is the moral choice.
 

ashurbanipal

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You are owed due process. Absent misconduct, you received it. If you have received due process, nothing has been stolen from you, and your conviction is not unjust. Again, I am not against compensation for wrongful convictions. I am just not convinced the convicted person is entitled to it as a matter of principle.

The problem is that "due process" can be defined as just about anything. You're confusing the epistemic process we use to arrive at a conclusion about a circumstance with the circumstance itself. There's a fact of the matter as to whether person P commits or does not commit crime X. Then there's the process we use to get to a conclusion about such matters of fact. The process is always going to be imperfect, though no one looking at our particular process should think we couldn't improve substantially.

The fact is, in this case, we acted as if the process is perfect (we put an innocent man in prison for life--for which presumption we ought to have the very highest possible warrant), but it was imperfect. Society did not discharge its epistemic duties, and hence, the man is owed big-time.
 

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Lol, arguing that convicting and imprisoning the wrong person for 44 years isn't a miscarriage of justice is one of the most disgusting things I've even seen someone say. You should be ashamed.


I think it's crazy and totally disgusting that you guys are trying to justify this. It's easy for you to dehumanize black people. I hope your "karma" leads you to being wrongfully imprisoned for a few decades so you have time to think about yourself and how you treat others.

It's another instance of "this kind of thing doesn't happen to me or my own. It happens to those people. So **** 'em"
 

Excast

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It's another instance of "this kind of thing doesn't happen to me or my own. It happens to those people. So **** 'em"

Doubly weird coming from a self described Libertarian, who you think would appreciate the need to rectify an injustice done on a citizen by the government.
 

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Labeling it "stolen" implies nefarious action on the part of the state. If there was, I am all in favor of mandatory compensation and even prison time for those involved in the malfeasance.

Again, if there was no malfeasance on the part of the prosecution, nothing was stolen. Though the wrong result was achieved, due process was afforded. That is what's owed to criminal defendants.

Long, who is Black, was accused of raping a White woman in 1976. An all-White jury found him guilty of rape and burglary and sentenced him to life in prison. After maintaining his innocence, and pursuing a lifetime of appeals and denied motions, he was released by a pardon from the governor in December 2020 after the courts found Long had been wrongly convicted. Since his sentencing, "a trickle of post-trial disclosures has unearthed a troubling and striking pattern of deliberate police suppression of material evidence," US Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals Judge Stephanie Thacker wrote.




Yeah, because hiding evidence and keeping black people off the jury is "due process"
 

Cope

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You are owed due process. Absent misconduct, you received it. If you have received due process, nothing has been stolen from you, and your conviction is not unjust. Again, I am not against compensation for wrongful convictions. I am just not convinced the convicted person is entitled to it as a matter of principle.
Due process is not infallible.

And with great power comes great responsibility. If the DA's/governmental agencies and other people with the power to prosecute can't be responsible for wrongful convictions then who can?
If you take away someone's life or a majority of it, then yes, you are responsible for that. And $50,000 per year with a cap at 15 years is not nearly appropriate for a life.
 

Hypothetical

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if wrongly convicted he should get a payday that changes his life for the better, which means millions at least.
 

Grizzly Adams

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We should strive to offer a little more than the bare minimum to those in our criminal justice system. We all have a limited amount of time on this planet. If we strip years away from an innocent person, whether through malfeasance or accident, attempting to make that right in some way is the moral choice.
I don't disagree. All I'm saying is that there's no objective right to compensation for an incorrect conclusion by a panel of twelve disinterested jurors if there wasn't any malfeasance. You got the due process to which you were entitled. Your rights weren't violated.
 

Grizzly Adams

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It's another instance of "this kind of thing doesn't happen to me or my own. It happens to those people. So **** 'em"
Please, so I know exactly why I should be pissed at you and dump your garbage onto my ignore list, tell me who "those people" are.
 
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