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Black Lives Matter and Police Brutality[W:50]

Masterhawk

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By now, it is no secret that there have been allegations against police officers over possible racism against blacks. This issue came to prominence when a white police officer in LA shot and killed a black person. This sparked riots. This issue has been brought up again in mid 2014 when ferguson police officer shot and killed a black man while in a car. The GOP has remained largely ignorant on the issue like they are on climate change. The democrats on the other hand have tried to portray the police as a death squad going after blacks and treating the black lives matter movement as a noble cause. Like so many issues regurgitated by both parties, the truth is somewhere in the middle. If you get all the details, you will notice that there are blacks resisting an officer, running away, other things you shouldn't do when an officer confronts you. However, it is also quite evident that police are more quick to draw their weapons on black people rather than white people. In response to these incidents, black lives matter protesters have vandalized property and broke into stores. This has led to multiple arrests and ferguson and baltimore being under martial law during the respective time of the killings.
 

joG

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Re: Black Lives Matter and Police Brutality

By now, it is no secret that there have been allegations against police officers over possible racism against blacks. This issue came to prominence when a white police officer in LA shot and killed a black person. This sparked riots. This issue has been brought up again in mid 2014 when ferguson police officer shot and killed a black man while in a car. The GOP has remained largely ignorant on the issue like they are on climate change. The democrats on the other hand have tried to portray the police as a death squad going after blacks and treating the black lives matter movement as a noble cause. Like so many issues regurgitated by both parties, the truth is somewhere in the middle. If you get all the details, you will notice that there are blacks resisting an officer, running away, other things you shouldn't do when an officer confronts you. However, it is also quite evident that police are more quick to draw their weapons on black people rather than white people. In response to these incidents, black lives matter protesters have vandalized property and broke into stores. This has led to multiple arrests and ferguson and baltimore being under martial law during the respective time of the killings.

You make it sound as though there is good reason that so many blacks are shot. Rioting and looting, huh? You are right. That is a problem.

But all joking aside. Our society does seem to be poorly structured to socialize large segments of the population to law abiding and productive citizens. And blacks seem to do an especially poor job of this.
 

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Re: Black Lives Matter and Police Brutality

By now, it is no secret that there have been allegations against police officers over possible racism against blacks. This issue came to prominence when a white police officer in LA shot and killed a black person. This sparked riots. This issue has been brought up again in mid 2014 when ferguson police officer shot and killed a black man while in a car. The GOP has remained largely ignorant on the issue like they are on climate change. The democrats on the other hand have tried to portray the police as a death squad going after blacks and treating the black lives matter movement as a noble cause. Like so many issues regurgitated by both parties, the truth is somewhere in the middle. If you get all the details, you will notice that there are blacks resisting an officer, running away, other things you shouldn't do when an officer confronts you. However, it is also quite evident that police are more quick to draw their weapons on black people rather than white people. In response to these incidents, black lives matter protesters have vandalized property and broke into stores. This has led to multiple arrests and ferguson and baltimore being under martial law during the respective time of the killings.

Please.........at least get your facts straight before you lay down your premise.
 

Medusa

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Re: Black Lives Matter and Police Brutality

By now, it is no secret that there have been allegations against police officers over possible racism against blacks. This issue came to prominence when a white police officer in LA shot and killed a black person. This sparked riots. This issue has been brought up again in mid 2014 when ferguson police officer shot and killed a black man while in a car. The GOP has remained largely ignorant on the issue like they are on climate change. The democrats on the other hand have tried to portray the police as a death squad going after blacks and treating the black lives matter movement as a noble cause. Like so many issues regurgitated by both parties, the truth is somewhere in the middle. If you get all the details, you will notice that there are blacks resisting an officer, running away, other things you shouldn't do when an officer confronts you. However, it is also quite evident that police are more quick to draw their weapons on black people rather than white people. In response to these incidents, black lives matter protesters have vandalized property and broke into stores. This has led to multiple arrests and ferguson and baltimore being under martial law during the respective time of the killings.

Cops should be educated enough to distinguish the black criminals from black innocent teenagers
 

Kal'Stang

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Re: Black Lives Matter and Police Brutality

By now, it is no secret that there have been allegations against police officers over possible racism against blacks. This issue came to prominence when a white police officer in LA shot and killed a black person. This sparked riots. This issue has been brought up again in mid 2014 when ferguson police officer shot and killed a black man while in a car. The GOP has remained largely ignorant on the issue like they are on climate change. The democrats on the other hand have tried to portray the police as a death squad going after blacks and treating the black lives matter movement as a noble cause. Like so many issues regurgitated by both parties, the truth is somewhere in the middle. If you get all the details, you will notice that there are blacks resisting an officer, running away, other things you shouldn't do when an officer confronts you. However, it is also quite evident that police are more quick to draw their weapons on black people rather than white people. In response to these incidents, black lives matter protesters have vandalized property and broke into stores. This has led to multiple arrests and ferguson and baltimore being under martial law during the respective time of the killings.

Umm...think you need to get some facts straight there bud. Because you're missing a lot of em.
 

Kal'Stang

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Re: Black Lives Matter and Police Brutality

Cops should be educated enough to distinguish the black criminals from black innocent teenagers

Huh...had no idea that there was a visible difference between a black criminals and a black innocent teenager. Could you please tell me the difference? Michael Brown was a teenager who thousands of blacks believed to be innocent. Facts proved them wrong with video of him robbing a store and a video of him beating up an old man (not that they'll admit his guilt...). If those thousands of blacks that believed MB innocent couldn't tell that he was a criminal and not a "black innocent teenager" then how do you expect cops to be able to tell?
 

Medusa

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Re: Black Lives Matter and Police Brutality

Huh...had no idea that there was a visible difference between a black criminals and a black innocent teenager. Could you please tell me the difference? Michael Brown was a teenager who thousands of blacks believed to be innocent. Facts proved them wrong with video of him robbing a store and a video of him beating up an old man. If those thousands of blacks that believed MB innocent couldn't tell that he was a criminal and not a "black innocent teenager" then how do you expect cops to be able to tell?

yes they should know how to do it.otherwise teenagers like Travyon martin will be shot by cops..
 

Kal'Stang

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Re: Black Lives Matter and Police Brutality

yes they should know how to do it.otherwise teenagers like Travyon martin will be shot by cops..............

Hmm...Trayvon Martin wasn't shot by cops. He was shot by a person that he attacked. Again, not an innocent, but a criminal.

I do agree that cops need to be a bit less trigger happy, but lets face it, there is no way to tell a black criminal from a black innocent teenager. Just as there is no way to tell who is a white criminal and a white innocent teenager. A brown criminal vs a brown innocent teenager. etc etc etc. Reminds me of that old picture that used to go around about terrorism that shows a bunch of people and asks for you to "spot the terrorist"...think they had one about homosexuality also.
 

Medusa

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Re: Black Lives Matter and Police Brutality

Hmm...Trayvon Martin wasn't shot by cops. He was shot by a person that he attacked. Again, not an innocent, but a criminal.

I do agree that cops need to be a bit less trigger happy, but lets face it, there is no way to tell a black criminal from a black innocent teenager. Just as there is no way to tell who is a white criminal and a white innocent teenager. A brown criminal vs a brown innocent teenager. etc etc etc. Reminds me of that old picture that used to go around about terrorism that shows a bunch of people and asks for you to "spot the terrorist"...think they had one about homosexuality also.
yes it seems more terrible ,his murderer was not a cop but acted like a cop? Martin ( He was not even holding a gun when he was shot) was followed ,provoked and then shot by a person .Imagine how cops and ordinary citizens are encouraged to shoot anyone whom they suspect of getting involved in crime.
 

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Re: Black Lives Matter and Police Brutality

yes it seems more terrible ,his murderer was not a cop but acted like a cop? Martin ( He was not even holding a gun when he was shot) was followed ,provoked and then shot by a person .Imagine how cops and ordinary citizens are encouraged to shoot anyone whom they suspect of getting involved in crime.

He wasn't provoked. Being followed is not provocation to violence, unless you are some wannabe street thug.

He got shot because he was slamming Zimmerman's head off the ground.
 

Medusa

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Re: Black Lives Matter and Police Brutality

He wasn't provoked. Being followed is not provocation to violence, unless you are some wannabe street thug.

He got shot because he was slamming Zimmerman's head off the ground.

but looking like a black thug is a reason to be shot
 

Kal'Stang

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Re: Black Lives Matter and Police Brutality

yes it seems more terrible ,his murderer was not a cop but acted like a cop? Martin ( He was not even holding a gun when he was shot) was followed ,provoked and then shot by a person .Imagine how cops and ordinary citizens are encouraged to shoot anyone whom they suspect of getting involved in crime.

1: Simply following someone does not give anyone the excuse to attack anyone. Simply following someone is not provocation enough to attack anyone.

2: Being unarmed =/= cannot harm anyone or kill anyone. The attacker being armed is not a condition that is required in order to save your own life by shooting the person attacking you. Why? Because an unarmed person can still kill you. Trayvon was shot while he was attacking another person. Why people insist that unarmed people are automatically innocent of threatening someone's life I have no idea.

3: No one, not even cops and especially not even ordinary citizens are encouraged to shoot anyone based on them simply suspecting someone of getting involved in a crime. They are however encouraged to defend themselves in what they believe to be a situation where their lives are in immediate danger.
 

Kal'Stang

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Re: Black Lives Matter and Police Brutality

but looking like a black thug is a reason to be shot

No, but a thug slamming your head into the ground is most definitely a reason to shoot the thug.
 

Medusa

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Re: Black Lives Matter and Police Brutality

No, but a thug slamming your head into the ground is most definitely a reason to shoot the thug.

he was provoked ,followed by zimmerman
 

Medusa

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Re: Black Lives Matter and Police Brutality

1: Simply following someone does not give anyone the excuse to attack anyone. Simply following someone is not provocation enough to attack anyone.

2: Being unarmed =/= cannot harm anyone or kill anyone. The attacker being armed is not a condition that is required in order to save your own life by shooting the person attacking you. Why? Because an unarmed person can still kill you. Trayvon was shot while he was attacking another person. Why people insist that unarmed people are automatically innocent of threatening someone's life I have no idea.

3: No one, not even cops and especially not even ordinary citizens are encouraged to shoot anyone based on them simply suspecting someone of getting involved in a crime. They are however encouraged to defend themselves in what they believe to be a situation where their lives are in immediate danger.
Suspecting someone of being a potential criminal shouldn't give anyone the excuse to follow anyone.it is a stalking.Law rules should not let anyone shoot the others whether they hold a gun or not ,shooting must not be like hunting animals.the image of cops dont seem to be ok ,they are thought to be racists,it is how they are seen in the world.I am not trying to insult them,I am really being objective.
 

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Re: Black Lives Matter and Police Brutality

Again, being followed is not a valid reason to attack someone. Legally or morally.

following someone doesnt seem to be morally right either and isn't it against teh concept of liberty ?
 

Kal'Stang

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Re: Black Lives Matter and Police Brutality

Suspecting someone of being a potential criminal shouldn't give anyone the excuse to follow anyone.it is a stalking.Law rules should not let anyone shoot the others whether they hold a gun or not ,shooting must not be like hunting animals.

No, its not stalking. Stalking laws are pretty specific and all of them require malicious intent. Following someone to make sure that they are not going to commit a crime is not considered malicious in the slightest.

Bold: So you're obviously in favor of disarming everyone but government officials. You're also obviously in favor of not allowing people to defend themselves when their lives are in immediate danger. Guess a criminals life is more important than a victims. :shrug: Because if the law were such as you want here then this 80-year old woman would be dead.
 

Kal'Stang

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Re: Black Lives Matter and Police Brutality

following someone doesnt seem to be morally right either and isn't it against teh concept of liberty ?

Following someone to make sure that they are not committing a crime is most definitely moral and the right thing to do. Cops do it all the time. Private investigators do it all the time also.

And no, its not against the concept of liberty. The concept of liberty has to do with non-criminal acts. Or are you of the opinion that someone in prison has liberty? ;)
 

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Re: Black Lives Matter and Police Brutality

Following someone to make sure that they are not committing a crime is most definitely moral and the right thing to do. Cops do it all the time. Private investigators do it all the time also.

And no, its not against the concept of liberty. The concept of liberty has to do with non-criminal acts. Or are you of the opinion that someone in prison has liberty? ;)

victims are usually blacks ,will you say blacks just commit more crimes than whites ? if you both agree with it and ignore how cops treat them is not right thing to do
 

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Re: Black Lives Matter and Police Brutality

No, its not stalking. Stalking laws are pretty specific and all of them require malicious intent. Following someone to make sure that they are not going to commit a crime is not considered malicious in the slightest.

Bold: So you're obviously in favor of disarming everyone but government officials. You're also obviously in favor of not allowing people to defend themselves when their lives are in immediate danger. Guess a criminals life is more important than a victims. :shrug: Because if the law were such as you want here then this 80-year old woman would be dead.

it seems US streets are as dangerous as the ME
 

Orly?

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Re: Black Lives Matter and Police Brutality

will you say blacks just commit more crimes than whites ?

That is a no brainier..
 

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Re: Black Lives Matter and Police Brutality

Hmm...Trayvon Martin wasn't shot by cops. He was shot by a person that he attacked. Again, not an innocent, but a criminal.

I do agree that cops need to be a bit less trigger happy, but lets face it, there is no way to tell a black criminal from a black innocent teenager. Just as there is no way to tell who is a white criminal and a white innocent teenager. A brown criminal vs a brown innocent teenager. etc etc etc. Reminds me of that old picture that used to go around about terrorism that shows a bunch of people and asks for you to "spot the terrorist"...think they had one about homosexuality also.

So many people who defend Zimmerman and officers who kill unarmed people just can't seem to escape identity politics, and I offer this post as an example. To many, it's a world of "criminals" and "innocents," "good guys" and "bad guys." Those identities are assigned based largely on perception and not necessarily tied to action. So strong is this identity perception that it can lead to excusing criminal acts for the "good guys" and justifying excessive punishment for the "bad guys." Thus, you admit cops are sometimes too quick to shoot, but you argue that is justifiable based on the cops representing a good archetype and black teens representing a "bad" archetype. That flawed perception gives the appearance of simple racism, but I suspect it's a more a failure of logic based on emotional reasoning.

There are career criminals, sure, and then there are people who commit illegal acts based on circumstance or compulsion, and then there are scared teenagers like Trayvon. Conflating those things is a giant failure of logic.

We need blind justice. As long as "good guys" can get with violent acts without consequence, Black Lives Matter will have a point.
 
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Kal'Stang

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Re: Black Lives Matter and Police Brutality

victims are usually blacks ,will you say blacks just commit more crimes than whites ? if you both agree with it and ignore how cops treat them is not right thing to do

Statistically speaking blacks have committed more crimes than whites for decades now. Why exactly that is I have no clue but imagine that it is a combination of many things from education, to racism, to both micro and macro culture.

it seems US streets are as dangerous as the ME

"seems" and reality are not always the same thing. Most of the gun crime that happens in the US is due to criminal gang activity which is located in relatively few city areas of the US. You take out gang related gun crimes and the US has as much crime as any other first world country that has banned guns. Where I live the last time someone murdered someone was in September of 1996. And I can't even remember the last time someone was accidentally shot.
 
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