Black America's Real Problem Isn't White Racism

[Thrilla]

I think quality education for parents and kids makes an enormous difference. I think feeling like you have REAL options that are obtainable makes an enormous difference. I think having the majority of the population not judge you without EVER speaking to you makes an enormous difference. I think giving kids educational options in place of jail time ........

People rarely dig themselves out of poverty or poor parenting because the are too immersed in the problem. They do, but it is rare and profoundly difficult. I am not saying that black Americans are not capable of escaping poverty and building a better life for themselves and their families. I AM saying that more people who are caught in the destructive cycle of poverty, regardless of color, would escape it if given a little real assistance and education.

so your advise is to do exactly what we have been doing for decades.

mmmmk, good luck with that... maybe one day all these decades of doing the same old **** will pay off.

 

[opendebate]

so your advise is to do exactly what we have been doing for decades.

mmmmk, good luck with that... maybe one day all these decades of doing the same old **** will pay off.

No this is not what we have been doing. First of all we should do WHATEVER we do effectively. The greatest idea in the world, if poorly executed, is doomed to fail.

 

[Thrilla]

No this is not what we have been doing. First of all we should do WHATEVER we do effectively. The greatest idea in the world, if poorly executed, is doomed to fail.

yes, it is... giving more and more assistance.. and mandating education.

what we do "effectively" is collect tax revenue, engage in commerce, and kill people in foreign countries... everything else we do is a cluster****.

the war on drugs.. failure
the war on poverty... failure

...so let's keep fighting them the same way we've been fighting them...victory is just around the corner!

 

[Wehrwolfen]

I didn't say it doesn't happen, I said it shouldn't. Although I don't really mind cabs avoiding high crime areas. I would mind if in one spot a cab would pick up a white man and not a black man.

You won't find that happening too much in New York City, but ask a cabbie to take you to Bedford Sty, close to Hunts Point in the Bronx, or the Fort Apache area north of Harlem. He'll suddenly have engine problems. BTW it's against the law for a cabbie to refuse a fare in NYC, That's why they run off duty signs a lot.

 

[Naptyme]

The system (dominated by white males) still has some racism that needs to be fixed. E.g. resumes with "black" names get fewer calls.

Black-on-black violence is a symptom, not necessarily the direct problem. The problem is, people who grow up in poor/bad neighborhoods can't easily get out of it and make something of themselves. Especially once they have a criminal record, the only way to earn a decent living is outside of the law, because employers don't typically like to hire people with criminal records. Felonies haunt you forever and make it virtually impossible to compete in the "white man's world." I think that's wrong and needs to change. If a person has served their time, they've repaid their debt to society and should be given a fair chance to compete with everyone else. That, to me, is black America's real problem that needs to be solved. And it's on white America to act on it.

I am sorry but I'm going to have to call BS on this line of thought. Yes, African Americans have higher percentage of people living in poverty but there still more whites in total living in poverty. If we are to believe it is simply being poor drives people into a life of crime then there would still be more whites committing crimes. I come from a poor single parent home, I made it to the middle class without needing to resort to a life of crime. The whole being forced into a life of crime is full of crap, it is simply taking the easy way out.

 

[Rainman05]

Why do you have to call it "black america", like it's another america.

 

[Jarhead]

Bull!!! It's not on anyone but the person committing the crime. I don't care where you come from. You know where the REAL problem is? It's with BLACK AMERICA. Black American Males to be exact. It's all about "livin' the life Bro!" There are way too many young black males without a REAL role model. The thought that it's all about "gettin' some" and proving your manhood is the real problem. This crap about blaming "White America" for your failures is nothing but that....CRAPPOLA!!! If I was a business owner and there were two applicants for a job why would I take the one who has a felony? Why? Don't blame me because you didn't have a father and got hooked up with a bad bunch and went to prison, BLAME YOURSELF for making a poor decision. Yeah, it's easy for me to say this, I'm white, raised by two parents in the 'burbs, but EVERYONE has choices, I had some growing up, lucky for me I made the correct ones.

 

[Caine]

All I ever read is excuses... excuses.....

 

[Smeagol]

By Pat Buchanan
7/19/2013


When Holder delivered his 2009 "nation-of-cowards" speech blaming racism for racial separation, Manhattan Institute's Heather Mac Donald suggested that our attorney general study his crime statistics.

In New York from January to June 2008, 83 percent of all gun assailants were black, according to witnesses and victims, though blacks were only 24 percent of the population. Blacks and Hispanics together accounted for 98 percent of all gun assailants. Forty-nine of every 50 muggings and murders in the Big Apple were the work of black or Hispanic criminals.

New York Police Commissioner Ray Kelly confirms Mac Donald's facts. Blacks and Hispanics commit 96 percent of all crimes in the city, he says, but only 85 percent of the stop-and-frisks are of blacks and Hispanics. And these may involve the kind of pat-downs all of us have had at the airport. Is stop-and-frisk the work of racist cops in New York, where the crime rate has been driven down to levels unseen in decades?

According to Kelly, a majority of his police force, which he has been able to cut from 41,000 officers to 35,000, is now made up of minorities.

But blacks are also, per capita, the principal victims of crime. Would black fathers prefer their sons to grow up in Chicago, rather than low-crime New York City, with its stop-and-frisk policy? Fernando Mateo, head of the New York taxicab union, urges his drivers to profile blacks and Hispanics for their own safety: "The God's honest truth is that 99 percent of the people that are robbing, stealing, killing these drivers are blacks and Hispanics."


(Excerpt)

Read more:
Black America's Real Problem Isn't White Racism | RealClearPolitics


I don't usually agree with Mr. Buchanan, this time he does have a point.

The vast majority of black Americans' problems are self-inflicted. I personally trace it to fatherless homes. Not all, but some kids who grow up in fatherless homes miss out on having an important instillation of discipline in their formative years and if missed turn out to be holy terrors on the rest of society while perpetuating that same dysfunction generation after generation. Barring some miracle, I think its going to take a generation at a minimum a for the problem to correct itself and only after the majority people see the value of a "till death do us part" commitment as a condition of being parents even at the expense of their own happiness. Its especially tough because the people who need to carry it out, sadly have to go against what to them is natural and normal based on their own experiences and adapt to a new paradigm for family life they never saw modeled growing up. This on top of sacrificing their own happiness as often being married to a woman who was raised by a single mother who was forced to take on a dominant personality due to her circumstances of having no man around to help raise often strong willed boys, can be a recipe for a life of misery. But people have to man up and do what they must for future generations of their own posterity.

 

[Wehrwolfen]

The vast majority of black Americans' problems are self-inflicted. I personally trace it to fatherless homes. Not all, but some kids who grow up in fatherless homes miss out on having an important instillation of discipline in their formative years and if missed turn out to be holy terrors on the rest of society while perpetuating that same dysfunction generation after generation. Barring some miracle, I think its going to take a generation at a minimum a for the problem to correct itself and only after the majority people see the value of a "till death do us part" commitment as a condition of being parents even at the expense of their own happiness. Its especially tough because the people who need to carry it out, sadly have to go against what to them is natural and normal based on their own experiences and adapt to a new paradigm for family life they never saw modeled growing up. This on top of sacrificing their own happiness as often being married to a woman who was raised by a single mother who was forced to take on a dominant personality due to her circumstances of having no man around to help raise often strong willed boys, can be a recipe for a life of misery. But people have to man up and do what they must for future generations of their own posterity.

Coupled with the lack of parental guidance is the vast lack of education. No matter how much is done to teach and coddle these children the gangs and the rapper gang overwhelm them. Look at Crips, Bloods, Case in point. The High School that Trayvon Martin bent over backward to keep him in school. The school police went as far as falsifying records by hiding the jewelry confiscated from Martin. I wonder just how many times Martin was taken to task by the school until they finally expelled him. Surely his mother couldn't handle him anymore and sent Trayvon to his absentee father who didn't care until his untimely death.

 

[Smeagol]

Coupled with the lack of parental guidance is the vast lack of education. No matter how much is done to teach and coddle these children the gangs and the rapper gang overwhelm them. Look at Crips, Bloods, Case in point. The High School that Trayvon Martin bent over backward to keep him in school. The school police went as far as falsifying records by hiding the jewelry confiscated from Martin. I wonder just how many times Martin was taken to task by the school until they finally expelled him. Surely his mother couldn't handle him anymore and sent Trayvon to his absentee father who didn't care until his untimely death.

That's all rooted in fatherless homes. Mom got pregnant at 17 and never finished high school let alone college. Dad decides after the baby arrives relationships are supposed to be about self-centered happiness and the normal pressures of life make personal happiness rare if not impossible for a season. On the the next one. It's unlikely the young mother is equipped to create an environment in the home conducive for the best educational outcomes nor help with homework. Plus, in 2913 technology in the home is a necessity for kids to complete homework assignments are study. Very often a poor single mother cannot afford computers, printers, ink, paper and Internet access and if she can, effectively provide the time and discipline to Mae sure tge kids stay off Facebook, etc., and do their homework. Heck, it's hard enough for two parents.

 

[Smeagol]

Why do you have to call it "black america", like it's another america.

Terminology like black America, African American, the black community, etc., have no sinister motive despite how it may sound to some. All that's being done is identifying a segment of the population. Nobody uses such terminology to make some sort of statement of secession from the rest of America but rather to just identify a specific group of Americans in order to address unique concerns of that group. I try to be sensitive not to use such terminology when I realize I'm talking to people who have a special sensitivity to their use but please try to understand the intent of those who use such phrases are in no way trying to communicate division. Compare it to soccer moms, military brats, the middle class, the LGBT community, evangelicals, disabled veterans, senior citizens, generation X, single moms, baby boomers, etc. where descriptions like "black community" only seek to identify a specific group in order to proceed with a discussion on matters possibly unique to that group so that everybody knows who's being discussed. Saying "African American" is a lot less wordy than "Americans who happen to be of African descent" and absolutely nothing divisive is intended.

 

[Caine]

Terminology like black America, African American, the black community, etc., have no sinister motive despite how it may sound to some. All that's being done is identifying a segment of the population. Nobody uses such terminology to make some sort of statement of secession from the rest of America but rather to just identify a specific group of Americans in order to address unique concerns of that group. I try to be sensitive not to use such terminology when I realize I'm talking to people who have a special sensitivity to their use but please try to understand the intent of those who use such phrases are in no way trying to communicate division. Compare it to soccer moms, military brats, the middle class, the LGBT community, evangelicals, disabled veterans, senior citizens, generation X, single moms, baby boomers, etc. where descriptions like "black community" only seek to identify a specific group in order to proceed with a discussion on matters possibly unique to that group so that everybody knows who's being discussed. Saying "African American" is a lot less wordy than "Americans who happen to be of African descent" and absolutely nothing divisive is intended.

I agree with everything in your post.... up until the "African-American" part.

I hate the use of the "hyphenated" American for people other than those who have themselves immigrated from another country.
Most of our "African-Americans" as some people call them are 5 or 6th generation Americans just like the rest of us, and are not any less "American". And have absolutely little or nothing to do with "Africa".

 

[Smeagol]

I agree with everything in your post.... up until the "African-American" part.

I hate the use of the "hyphenated" American for people other than those who have themselves immigrated from another country.
Most of our "African-Americans" as some people call them are 5 or 6th generation Americans just like the rest of us, and are not any less "American". And have absolutely little or nothing to do with "Africa".

I understand but for the overwhelming majority of people who use the phrase are not trying to communicate a message of being less America.

When I took a communications course in college we learned the basis of accurate communications is built upon the intent of the speaker, not the perception of the hearer, which can be a false perception. Of course, the onus is on the speaker to use terminology that is accurately understood by the hearer, which is in fact something I'm trying to do now for the benefit of others in the future who hear such terminology. What's interesting however is in my observation offense taken over people who use such terminology seems to be rooted in a type of political group-think dynamic. Opposition to phrases like "African American" is pretty much seen in only one segment of society that is decidedly political, and by the way, a political group most people I know considered me to be a member in good standing up until a few years go. �� It honestly seems to me, opposition to "African American" was the brainchild of a political pundit (and I have no idea which one), then the faithful rank and file got in line behind it until it is now one of the unofficial planks in the groups' platform.

A little history: Although we're all happy to be here and are proud, patriotic Americans, the story of black heritage is unique in America. Unlike the early explorers, pilgrims and setters to the new world; most black Americans trace the majority of their ancestry to people who were not only forced to immigrate here but once here were treated in humanely. Part of that inhumane treatment included being verbally defined with the use of racial slurs. One of the more common racial slurs, which probably didn't start out as a slur but that's neither here nor there, was the "n-word." Time goes on and as black Americans begin to achieve a greater level of equality, more respectable terminology began to replace the n-word, etc. First (I think) was colored. For some reason that became outdated very possibly for similar reasons as the n-word that could have been used as a derogatory term by racists to such an extent that blacks wanted to stop using it altogether. Then came Negro or negroid but after time it also became outdated likely because of its phonetic similarity to the n-word and was replaced by black. However black also became problematic in time due to its association with negativity and evil in general lexicon; black hearted, etc. African American was introduced to try to give blacks a respectable designation like Jewish, Hispanic, etc., while being careful not to send any such signal that our devotion to America was in any way being renounced.

 

[Caine]

I understand but for the overwhelming majority of people who use the phrase are not trying to communicate a message of being less America.

When I took a communications course in college we learned the basis of accurate communications is built upon the intent of the speaker, not the perception of the hearer, which can be a false perception. Of course, the onus is on the speaker to use terminology that is accurately understood by the hearer, which is in fact something I'm trying to do now for the benefit of others in the future who hear such terminology. What's interesting however is in my observation offense taken over people who use such terminology seems to be rooted in a type of political group-think dynamic. Opposition to phrases like "African American" is pretty much seen in only one segment of society that is decidedly political, and by the way, a political group most people I know considered me to be a member in good standing up until a few years go. �� It honestly seems to me, opposition to "African American" was the brainchild of a political pundit (and I have no idea which one), then the faithful rank and file got in line behind it until it is now one of the unofficial planks in the groups' platform.

A little history: Although we're all happy to be here and are proud, patriotic Americans, the story of black heritage is unique in America. Unlike the early explorers, pilgrims and setters to the new world; most black Americans trace the majority of their ancestry to people who were not only forced to immigrate here but once here were treated in humanely. Part of that inhumane treatment included being verbally defined with the use of racial slurs. One of the more common racial slurs, which probably didn't start out as a slur but that's neither here nor there, was the "n-word." Time goes on and as black Americans begin to achieve a greater level of equality, more respectable terminology began to replace the n-word, etc. First (I think) was colored. For some reason that became outdated very possibly for similar reasons as the n-word that could have been used as a derogatory term by racists to such an extent that blacks wanted to stop using it altogether. Then came Negro or negroid but after time it also became outdated likely because of its phonetic similarity to the n-word and was replaced by black. However black also became problematic in time due to its association with negativity and evil in general lexicon; black hearted, etc. African American was introduced to try to give blacks a respectable designation like Jewish, Hispanic, etc., while being careful not to send any such signal that our devotion to America was in any way being renounced.

Communication bit, I got it and I agree and understand. I just don't choose to associate someone with another continent they haven't lived on and possibly don't give two ****s about.

Then comes the partisan politics bull**** *Yawn*.

And of course, not to be forgotten the old standby.... Slavery. *Yawn*.

 

[Smeagol]

Communication bit, I got it and I agree and understand. I just don't choose to associate someone with another continent they haven't lived on and possibly don't give two ****s about.

Then comes the partisan politics bull**** *Yawn*.

And of course, not to be forgotten the old standby.... Slavery. *Yawn*.

It's not witout precedent that some ethic groups are identified in part by the continent their ethnic group originates. We've all heard the phrase "Native American." Of course, this being America, or at least North America, negates the "other than here" complaint but anywhere in the world even outside of the US a person of Native American ethnicity would be thought of as Native American in terms of race. I don't think anybody would be offended.

In Europe and the UK in particular the ethnic group we tend to call Chinese or oriental, they call East Asian regardless of how many generations their heritage goes back in the UK if and when their ethnicity is discussed. The people we call Indian that also includes Pakistanis, in the UK their race is called South Asian, British Asian or Brit Asian. Nobody gets offended as its just a way to understand who is being discussed despite their ethnicities including a reference to a continent.

There are even ethnic groups that are in part identified by the ocean the islands are located. Polynesian is common but South PACIFIC Islander is just as common after the Pacific Ocean.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Asian

 

[Caine]

It's not witout precedent that some ethic groups are identified in part by the continent their ethnic group originates. We've all heard the phrase "Native American." Of course, this being America, or at least North America, negates the "other than here" complaint but anywhere in the world even outside of the US a person of Native American ethnicity would be thought of as Native American in terms of race. I don't think anybody would be offended.

In Europe and the UK in particular the ethnic group we tend to call Chinese or oriental, they call East Asian regardless of how many generations their heritage goes back in the UK if and when their ethnicity is discussed. The people we call Indian that also includes Pakistanis, in the UK their race is called South Asian, British Asian or Brit Asian. Nobody gets offended as its just a way to understand who is being discussed despite their ethnicities including a reference to a continent.

There are even ethnic groups that are in part identified by the ocean the islands are located. Polynesian is common but South PACIFIC Islander is just as common after the Pacific Ocean.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Asian

Hmmm.... Interesting to see how the British do it...

Since I am a "British-American" after all.

 

[joko104]

Street crimes are predominately committed by poor people. Black people are disproportionately poor today because of segregation yesterday. It's only been one generation since the Civil Rights movement, and two since the Jim Crow laws. The effects of our previous dismal and embarrassing policies don't just disappear overnight.

Now it's a vicious cycle - born & raised in extreme poverty, crappy education system, crappy prospects for a good life, etc. Street crimes and fear of police are a way of life. Before they're old enough to realize it, they've already screwed themselves with a criminal record that's going to keep them down indefinitely. It takes an above-and-beyond individual to break free from that, and most people are not above-and-beyond. So they get stuck in the same cycle, year after year. Part of what keeps them in that cycle is the fact that a criminal record means they don't have a fair chance to move beyond their past mistakes and make a good living for themselves within the law. So I think the thing that would help most is for a criminal record to not be such a barrier into a decent job/living. If they served their debt to society, then it shouldn't be held against them anymore. That's how "whitey" could contribute toward helping to end the cycle of poverty and violence in black communities.

Yeah, and the way to break the cycle is to bust up the community. When a generational ghetto starts, bulldoze part of it down. Build an Interstate thru the middle of it. Scatter the people. End the community way of life and attitudes. Got a bad part of town? Break it.