Bill Clinton: 'Black Lives Matter' Protesters Are Defending Murders And Drug Dealers

[calamity]

Re: Bill Clinton: 'Black Lives Matter' Protesters Are Defending Murders And Drug Deal

Because this is debate as indicated by the name of the site and that is what is done in debate.

And, my statement was an opinion. If you don't like it, you can refute it...or just cop-out and ask for quotes.

 

[haymarket]

Re: Bill Clinton: 'Black Lives Matter' Protesters Are Defending Murders And Drug Deal

And, my statement was an opinion. If you don't like it, you can refute it...or just cop-out and ask for quotes.

So you have an opinion. Great. That same situation fits everybody here. The point of debate is to be able to support your opinion with more than just yourself so it ends up as a dog chasing its own tail in endless circles getting nowhere.

You "opinion" in your 434 was about what you claimed I supported as my agenda:

Gun grabbing, forced integration, and reparations would be my guess.

But yet you cannot support that claim with any actual evidence.

 

[Dittohead not!]

Re: Bill Clinton: 'Black Lives Matter' Protesters Are Defending Murders And Drug Deal

Here's why inner city dwellers are more prone to violence, and it has nothing to do with race, culture, or even drugs.

Well, drugs could be a factor as well, but still:

We Know Nature Makes Us Happier. Now Science Says It Makes Us Kinder Too

But, even though I’ve always believed that hiking in nature had many psychological benefits, I’ve never had much science to back me up … until now, that is. Scientists are beginning to find evidence that being in nature has a profound impact on our brains and our behavior, helping us to reduce anxiety, brooding, and stress, and to increase our attention capacity, creativity, and ability to connect with other people.

 

[Excon]

Re: Bill Clinton: 'Black Lives Matter' Protesters Are Defending Murders And Drug Deal

It matters a great deal to a people and a society who want to try to decrease such crime and prevent it in the future.

1. No. It matters to those who wish to deflect, excuse and blame everybody but the perpetrator of the crime.
Which again, does not matter as to how society should treat the one who acted out criminally.

Invariably when the subject comes up of a black person committing a crime someone wants to interject the nonsense you have tried when there is absolutely no reason to. It is always done as a means of deflection and excuse from the fact that they commit more crime than others.
The problem with the argument is that it can not be proven and is absolutely ridiculous to suggest such.

2. Focusing on irrelevant bs does not go to prevention.

Unless the person already has faulty reasoning, this behavior is not predicated on, or influenced by, whether or not their family history involves slavery, jcrow, separate but equal, poverty, etc... Those things do not cause them to act in a criminal or violent way. This is evidenced by the majority of those who have these ancestral histories that do not act out in a criminal manner and further evidenced by the same pattern of greater criminality occurring amongst blacks across the world who's ancestors have not suffered these histories.

And why was their culture harmed in the first place?

Irrelevant to the fact that it is their culture and that they brought with them when the moved into the area and a cause to why those who did not want to put up with it fled.

Who bears responsibility for some of that?

Thank you for exposing the problem with interjecting irrelevant nonsense. It takes the conversation far away for the point being made. It is funny how folks that do this never start a thread to discuss the reasons "why" of that which they wish to interject with. It just speaks to the fact that it is used as deflection.

But in answer, those perpetuating that culture are the ones responsible for it, no one else.
Much like the idiot hillbilly culture belongs to those in it.

Why are you blind to examining that important set of links in the chain of events that get us to today?

Funny. What you are failing to realize is that they have been examined and dismissed as the in-general bs they are.

Again.
Unless the person already has faulty reasoning, this behavior is not predicated on, or influenced by, whether or not their family history involves slavery, jcrow, separate but equal, poverty, etc... Those things do not cause them to act in a criminal or violent way. This is evidenced by the majority of those who have these ancestral histories that do not act out in a criminal manner and further evidenced by the same pattern of greater criminality occurring amongst blacks across the world who's ancestors have not suffered these histories.

Secondly what you consider a chain of events is irrelevant to the issue of solving the behavioral issues in the here and now. That can only come from within the group.

 

[haymarket]

Re: Bill Clinton: 'Black Lives Matter' Protesters Are Defending Murders And Drug Deal

1. No.

You post proves the old adage THERE ARE NONE SO BLIND AS THEY WHO WILL NOT SEE.

Denying history is not an argument. Denying the effects of economics and sociology and politics is not an argument. It is foolish to attempt to talk reason with you when your entire approach is to deny reality and instead pretend that every baby born starts out fresh and clean just like every other and we are all the complete and total masters of our lives and all that happens in them.

And that is simply not the way of the real world.

Look at this statement from you

Those things do not cause them to act in a criminal or violent way.

You discount all these factors. Fine. So tell us then what does cause a person to commit a crime if all those other historical factors and genetic factors and cultural factors and sociological factors and economic factors and political factors play no role.

Tell us, in your learned opinion and all your study and research on this problem, what does case a person to commit a crime?

 

[JANFU]

Re: Bill Clinton: 'Black Lives Matter' Protesters Are Defending Murders And Drug Deal

I don't have a problem blaming the criminal at all. I just think it's very unfair for people to blame an entire race for a small percentage of the crimes committed by people of that race. Moreover, people who tend to paint themselves as "know-it-all's" on the problems Black people face tend to paint Blacks with a pretty broad brush, and I find that just as offensive as any White person today would who has ever felt themselves held to blame for the sins of White slave owners or the cruel actions of bigoted, racist White people of the past.

I've said this before: I didn't grow up in the projects. I didn't live in a ghetto. Except for the 70's recession, I've never been on food stamps or welfare (and really didn't know my family was on either until many years later - my parents were prideful and self-sufficient like that). I've always lived in a single-family home from the time I was a child until now. (Not the same home, of course, but you get the point.) So, when I read diatribes from people who go out of their way to demonize Blacks as a whole, yes, it really pisses me off. Because I know not every Black person is a criminal. Not every Black person does drugs. Not every Black family is on welfare or uses food stamps. Not every Black family lives in "the 'hood". Not every Black child is dumb or is simply passed along in school. Contrary to popular belief, there are some very smart Black students out there at all grade levels.

So, it kinda gets under my skin a little bite when White people post all kinds of non-sense about Blacks trying to fit us all into the same mold without ever acknowledging there are some good, decent, hardworking, law abiding and highly educated Black people out there. Such people are those who never want to give a Black man or woman any credit at all. Furthermore, it's these same people who never want to acknowledge the truths about how we, as Black people, got to where we are and why it remains so difficult for many of us to break out of such troubling circumstances.

Yes, the struggle continues and for many Blacks they have to learn how to get out of their own way. That will come in time; but to expect the switch to be turned, for that light bulb to come on in just over 50 years of being granted full citizenship rights (and if we're truthful, that's even a misnomer considering the need and debate over Affirmative Action today) is asking a helluva lot when one considers just how long Whites have had their freedom and experienced the privileges this country has to offer just because you were born who you are.

I don't blame a single White person for my problems, but I do fully understand how White people of power, prominence and influence, as well as how White society of yesterday aided in the struggles many Black people experience today. I also acknowledge that many Black people bring their problems upon themselves. Hence, the reason I've said time and time again, the moment we, as Black people, come to realize how our actions or inactions do us harm, that's when as a people will begin to change. Still, it's very interesting when you look back through history and see how every time the Black man tried to rise up and change his own circumstances, there was always a systematic rebuke by those who felt threatened by his rise to power. Thus, sometimes the stumbling block isn't just us. Sometimes, it's injustice.

Well said.

 

[Excon]

Re: Bill Clinton: 'Black Lives Matter' Protesters Are Defending Murders And Drug Deal

You post proves the old adage THERE ARE NONE SO BLIND AS THEY WHO WILL NOT SEE.

Hilarious.
That is what your postings prove, especially as you are assuming something to believe.

Beside hilarious, your reply is, as usual, typical deflection and strawmen which fail to address what was actually said.
You simply ignore that which is inconvenient for you and have again brought up that which has already been addressed.

Denying history is not an argument.

See, strawman. No one has denied history.

Denying the effects of economics and sociology and politics is not an argument.

Another strawman as you fail to show these are the reasons for the increased criminality. All you have really done is assume that they are.

Again. (Try actually addressing it this time.)

Unless the person already has faulty reasoning, this behavior is not predicated on, or influenced by, whether or not their family history involves slavery, jcrow, separate but equal, poverty, etc... Those things do not cause them to act in a criminal or violent way. This is evidenced by the majority of those who have these ancestral histories that do not act out in a criminal manner and further evidenced by the same pattern of greater criminality occurring amongst blacks across the world who's ancestors have not suffered these histories.​

It is foolish to attempt to talk reason with you when your entire approach is to deny reality and instead pretend that every baby born starts out fresh and clean just like every other and we are all the complete and total masters of our lives and all that happens in them.

There you go again. Deflection by strawman, and failure to address what was actually said. Try again.

Look at this statement from you

Those things do not cause them to act in a criminal or violent way.

You discount all these factors.

Oh look. You deflect with a strawman. So typical, and totally ignores the sentence that follows "This is evidenced by ...".

The claim is yours to support and you have not shown that these things lead to violence or criminality.

On the other-hand I have pointed out that the majority who suffer from these things are not out there acting out violently and committing criminal acts.
So again, that is an indication that those factors are not the cause you seem to think they are.

And also again.
When blacks of other nations who have not suffered from these factors suffer a similar increase in criminality it also suggests that those factors are not the cause.

So tell us then what does cause a person to commit a crime if all those other historical factors and genetic factors and cultural factors and sociological factors and economic factors and political factors play no role.

Funny.
The only thing that hasn't been addressed by both of us is genetics.

So tell us then what does cause a person to commit a crime ...
[...]
... what does case a person to commit a crime?

Even though I already alluded to "faulty reasoning", I do not need to expand into another area of topic as dispelling your ridiculous assumptions was sufficient.

 

[JRSaindo]

By all means, please do discuss those possible causes of the crime we are talking about. I welcome your analysis of each and every one complete with evidence why they do not apply in any way shape or form.

Blacks moving into a neighborhood DO NOT force anyone to move. That is an action done by whites to flee integration. Blaming Blacks for their own segregation is particularly odious and reeks of blaming the victim for their own lot.

I find your statement on whites moving out only due to the color of other's skin pretty shallow. What kind of culture and sense of community do they bring with them? Usually you can tell within a month by the looks of the property. Is it maintained? Do they care?

Before passing blind statements why not provide some actual cases where a black well to do family moving in an affluent white neighborhood caused all the whites to move out.

 

[haymarket]

Re: Bill Clinton: 'Black Lives Matter' Protesters Are Defending Murders And Drug Deal

I find your statement on whites moving out only due to the color of other's skin pretty shallow. What kind of culture and sense of community do they bring with them? Usually you can tell within a month by the looks of the property. Is it maintained? Do they care?

Before passing blind statements why not provide some actual cases where a black well to do family moving in an affluent white neighborhood caused all the whites to move out.

Are you questioning the reality of what sociologists call WHITE FLIGHT... that what used to be white neighborhoods all around parts of the USA turned to black neighborhoods after black families began to move in and whites then moved out?

 

[justabubba]

Re: Bill Clinton: 'Black Lives Matter' Protesters Are Defending Murders And Drug Deal

Are you questioning the reality of what sociologists call WHITE FLIGHT... that what used to be white neighborhoods all around parts of the USA turned to black neighborhoods after black families began to move in and whites then moved out?

possibly to young to have been familiar with the expression "there goes the neighborhood"

 

[Grant]

Re: Bill Clinton: 'Black Lives Matter' Protesters Are Defending Murders And Drug Deal

Are you questioning the reality of what sociologists call WHITE FLIGHT... that what used to be white neighborhoods all around parts of the USA turned to black neighborhoods after black families began to move in and whites then moved out?

The bitching continues. The Harlem gentrification: From black to white - New African Magazine


Here's What Happens When White People Move Into Your Neighborhood

 

[Bootlace]

Re: Bill Clinton: 'Black Lives Matter' Protesters Are Defending Murders And Drug Deal

Are you questioning the reality of what sociologists call WHITE FLIGHT... that what used to be white neighborhoods all around parts of the USA turned to black neighborhoods after black families began to move in and whites then moved out?

That's a good description of the town I grew up in. But it became black flight when the Hispanics started moving in.

 

[justabubba]

Re: Bill Clinton: 'Black Lives Matter' Protesters Are Defending Murders And Drug Deal

gentrification is just a manifestation of capitalism
and for many it is a boon. their real property asset is desirable and appreciates in value
much better that owning property in bun**** where no one cares to live; where property values remain flat for generations
location, location, location ... or do people really think location is unimportant

 

[Risky Thicket]

Re: Bill Clinton: 'Black Lives Matter' Protesters Are Defending Murders And Drug Deal

I don't have a problem blaming the criminal at all. I just think it's very unfair for people to blame an entire race for a small percentage of the crimes committed by people of that race. Moreover, people who tend to paint themselves as "know-it-all's" on the problems Black people face tend to paint Blacks with a pretty broad brush, and I find that just as offensive as any White person today would who has ever felt themselves held to blame for the sins of White slave owners or the cruel actions of bigoted, racist White people of the past.

I've said this before: I didn't grow up in the projects. I didn't live in a ghetto. Except for the 70's recession, I've never been on food stamps or welfare (and really didn't know my family was on either until many years later - my parents were prideful and self-sufficient like that). I've always lived in a single-family home from the time I was a child until now. (Not the same home, of course, but you get the point.) So, when I read diatribes from people who go out of their way to demonize Blacks as a whole, yes, it really pisses me off. Because I know not every Black person is a criminal. Not every Black person does drugs. Not every Black family is on welfare or uses food stamps. Not every Black family lives in "the 'hood". Not every Black child is dumb or is simply passed along in school. Contrary to popular belief, there are some very smart Black students out there at all grade levels.

So, it kinda gets under my skin a little bite when White people post all kinds of non-sense about Blacks trying to fit us all into the same mold without ever acknowledging there are some good, decent, hardworking, law abiding and highly educated Black people out there. Such people are those who never want to give a Black man or woman any credit at all. Furthermore, it's these same people who never want to acknowledge the truths about how we, as Black people, got to where we are and why it remains so difficult for many of us to break out of such troubling circumstances.

Yes, the struggle continues and for many Blacks they have to learn how to get out of their own way. That will come in time; but to expect the switch to be turned, for that light bulb to come on in just over 50 years of being granted full citizenship rights (and if we're truthful, that's even a misnomer considering the need and debate over Affirmative Action today) is asking a helluva lot when one considers just how long Whites have had their freedom and experienced the privileges this country has to offer just because you were born who you are.

I don't blame a single White person for my problems, but I do fully understand how White people of power, prominence and influence, as well as how White society of yesterday aided in the struggles many Black people experience today. I also acknowledge that many Black people bring their problems upon themselves. Hence, the reason I've said time and time again, the moment we, as Black people, come to realize how our actions or inactions do us harm, that's when as a people will begin to change. Still, it's very interesting when you look back through history and see how every time the Black man tried to rise up and change his own circumstances, there was always a systematic rebuke by those who felt threatened by his rise to power. Thus, sometimes the stumbling block isn't just us. Sometimes, it's injustice.

Wow! Excellent. :thumbs:

 

[AlbqOwl]

Re: Bill Clinton: 'Black Lives Matter' Protesters Are Defending Murders And Drug Deal

.

I don't blame a single White person for my problems, but I do fully understand how White people of power, prominence and influence, as well as how White society of yesterday aided in the struggles many Black people experience today. I also acknowledge that many Black people bring their problems upon themselves. Hence, the reason I've said time and time again, the moment we, as Black people, come to realize how our actions or inactions do us harm, that's when as a people will begin to change. Still, it's very interesting when you look back through history and see how every time the Black man tried to rise up and change his own circumstances, there was always a systematic rebuke by those who felt threatened by his rise to power. Thus, sometimes the stumbling block isn't just us. Sometimes, it's injustice.

I'm posting your last paragraph only since the whole thing was more than DP would allow. . . A really excellent post in its entirety though.

I agree with most of what you said. But you also have to look at your closing comment--I bolded it. I would be the first to acknowledge that white people can be racist and have put up those stumbling blocks, if not solid impenetrable walls for black people. I grew up during segregation and watched those barriers gradually dissolve. And black people sure weren't the ones to put those barriers there.

But that was then.

I am also a one-woman warrior against political correctness that forbids me to treat a Native American or Hispanic or black person etc. exactly as I treat a white person using the same language and imagery as I do with white people. I hate being forced by society to be color conscious and to defer to people because their skin is a different color from mine. I want to be able to be color blind and treat everybody as my equal. That is not allowed.

And many people who happen to be black have to accept their share of the blame for that. How many times have we heard the phrase that a Clarence Thomas or a J.C. Watts or a Starr Parker or a Condi Rice or pick a successful person of your choice who happens to be black "is not a credit to his/her race" because he/she does not support affirmative action or this or that program that benefits mostly black people, etc. When you have a Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton or some other representative presumably of all black people denouncing those who would say 'white lives matter too' or accusing white people as racist who are not at all racist and suggesting that black people deserve special treatment because they are oppressed and victimized and kept down by rich white people.

The war against racism has been fought and won. The law now puts all on equal footing to compete, live and work where they want, have dinner where they choose, etc. etc. etc. It is time to realize that some people of all colors, genders, ethnicities, etc. are going to be racist and allow them to be that so that they have no power to hurt anybody. Only by making a big deal out of it do we give them power as they legally cannot act on their racist views. The war had to be fought to correct existing injustices, but now that it is won, we need to stop fighting it.

Only when we allow skin color to be of no more importance than hair or eye color will there be true equality. We need to resist those who profit from keeping racism alive and well and refuse to allow them to control us.

And that is why the "Black Lives Matter" group is wrong to insist on that phrase instead of an 'all lives matter' position. That is what we should object to instead of some silly idea that they all are defending bad people.

 

[polgara]

Re: Bill Clinton: 'Black Lives Matter' Protesters Are Defending Murders And Drug Deal

The bitching continues. The Harlem gentrification: From black to white - New African Magazine


Here's What Happens When White People Move Into Your Neighborhood

Greetings, Grant. :2wave:

Excellent links! :thumbs: Having lived in the same nearly-rural area all my life, I wasn't aware of the changes taking place in the big cities. Assuming that the whites have more money that the current inhabitants, or there wouldn't be resentment, do they tear down existing houses and build new, or do they build new luxury apartments to live in? Interesting...

 

[Grant]

Re: Bill Clinton: 'Black Lives Matter' Protesters Are Defending Murders And Drug Deal

Greetings, Grant. :2wave:

Excellent links! :thumbs: Having lived in the same nearly-rural area all my life, I wasn't aware of the changes taking place in the big cities. Assuming that the whites have more money that the current inhabitants, or there wouldn't be resentment, do they tear down existing houses and build new, or do they build new luxury apartments to live in? Interesting...

They do all of that and more, all around us . We live our lives in phases, seldom realizing we are in a phase at the time. We just think that's who we are and that's the way it is.

But it's not like that at all because change is always happening to us and around us.. People move out of neighborhoods because the culture changes, it's less safe, they had a promotion, they're speculating on property somewhere else, or want to raise chickens. Perhaps some White, or Asians, might move into those Chicago neighborhoods where so many Blacks are being killed, in the baddest part of town, but who wants to be the first? Will they then complain about 'gentrification' when the area becomes safe a generation later?

It's all phases, demographics, incomes, and so on. We can see it all over the world as neighborhoods, and the classes and cultures therein, change. I'm in a town where neighborhoods have changed dramatically over the past 20 years and the people are all the same culture and color. I'm the town minority. People move up or down, sometimes sideways. Often it's just human restlessness and nothing more. It's not that deep or invidious. It's just change.

Cheers to you!