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Big Lie: America Doesn't Have #1 Richest Middle-Class in the World...We're Ranked 27t

Paschendale

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Re: Big Lie: America Doesn't Have #1 Richest Middle-Class in the World...We're Ranked

You'd think that, given American values, the wealth of the hardworking middle class would be the best indicator of how our country is really doing.
 

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Tucker Case

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Re: Big Lie: America Doesn't Have #1 Richest Middle-Class in the World...We're Ranked

Bet the old radical Les Leopold gets the tingles running.

Who cares what a biased fool like Les wants people to believe.

The report that is providing that info comes from Credit Suisse, I believe.
 

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Re: Big Lie: America Doesn't Have #1 Richest Middle-Class in the World...We're Ranked

The report that is providing that info comes from Credit Suisse, I believe.

Ok.

Regardless, Les decides that median income equates to middle class, and uses a gross dollar amount comparison?

Leo is a well know radical leftist. That should be taken into consideration before anything he couldn't sell to Huffinton Post is considered.
 

Tucker Case

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Re: Big Lie: America Doesn't Have #1 Richest Middle-Class in the World...We're Ranked

Ok.

Regardless, Les decides that median income equates to middle class, and uses a gross dollar amount comparison?

Interesting point. Unlike the average/mean in a skewed distribution like income or wealth, the median demonstrates the true "50% at or above, 50% at or below" point. We generally assume that the people at the exact middle would be middle class, but perhaps it wouldn't mean that, especially if there is an over-representation of people who are in the lower class income levels and an under-representation of people in the upper class income levels. To explain, in a nation where 51% of the people are at or below the poverty line, the median income would always be in the "lower class".
 

ocean515

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Re: Big Lie: America Doesn't Have #1 Richest Middle-Class in the World...We're Ranked

Interesting point. Unlike the average/mean in a skewed distribution like income or wealth, the median demonstrates the true "50% at or above, 50% at or below" point. We generally assume that the people at the exact middle would be middle class, but perhaps it wouldn't mean that, especially if there is an over-representation of people who are in the lower class income levels and an under-representation of people in the upper class income levels. To explain, in a nation where 51% of the people are at or below the poverty line, the median income would always be in the "lower class".

Exactly. Also, there is no comparison of purchasing power of the dollars presented. It may very well be in in the Credit Suisse analysis, but I didn't see it in the linked article.

To put raw dollars on a graph and also arbitrarily claim median amounts equal middle class serves no purpose other than to try and push forward Leo's well known agenda.
 

OhIsee.Then

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Re: Big Lie: America Doesn't Have #1 Richest Middle-Class in the World...We're Ranked

I guess the logical thing to do in this situation is cut benefits to the people and cut taxes on the wealthy right? :roll:

Big Lie: America Doesn't Have #1 Richest Middle-Class in the World...We're Ranked 27th! | Alternet

From your source:
"1.8 Concluding remarks
The study of global household wealth is at an embryonic stage. Data on the level of wealth remains poor for many countries. Information on the pattern of wealth within countries is even scarcer. The precise definition of personal wealth has not been agreed, and the appropriate methods of valuation are not always clear. Much work remains to be done to refine the estimates of wealth level by country, to improve the estimates of wealth distribution within countries, to explore the pattern of wealth holdings within families, and so on. In future years, some revisions to our estimates are inevitable, and some country rankings will no doubt change. But we are confident that the broad trends revealed in the Credit Suisse Global Wealth Report for 2010 will remain substantially intact."
 
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Gimmesometruth

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Re: Big Lie: America Doesn't Have #1 Richest Middle-Class in the World...We're Ranked

Exactly. Also, there is no comparison of purchasing power of the dollars presented. It may very well be in in the Credit Suisse analysis, but I didn't see it in the linked article.

To put raw dollars on a graph and also arbitrarily claim median amounts equal middle class serves no purpose other than to try and push forward Leo's well known agenda.
Funny, I don't see you stating how the middle class is defined in dollar amounts.

The middle 20% of income earners in the US is defined as those making between $32K and $55K. The median income does describe middle class.

Of course this quibbling about terms avoids the main points, that the MC has fallen behind due to compensation not commensurate with productivity and that financializaion has allowed the upper class to make even greater gains than what they have captured via wages.

The axiom that it takes money to make money is becoming even stronger.

Horatio Alger is dead and buried, meritocracy is crumbling, if you are from a wealthy family, a degree is not necessary and if you are from the lower class, a degree means little:
RIP, American Dream? Why It's So Hard for the Poor to Get Ahead Today - Matthew O'Brien - The Atlantic
 
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ARealConservative

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Re: Big Lie: America Doesn't Have #1 Richest Middle-Class in the World...We're Ranked

"Wealth is measured by the total sum of all our assets (homes, bank accounts, stocks, bonds etc.) minus our liabilities (outstanding loans and other debts). "

we, as a nation, have forsaken fiscal responsibility. People that fall into middle class for wage earnings simply live too lavish of a lifestyle compared to nation like Australia. We live in the now, and don't save properly.
 

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Re: Big Lie: America Doesn't Have #1 Richest Middle-Class in the World...We're Ranked

Funny, I don't see you stating how the middle class is defined in dollar amounts.

The middle 20% of income earners in the US is defined as those making between $32K and $55K, so it seems the Global Wage Report which is linked to in the article is correct. The median income does describe middle class.

Of course this quibbling about terms avoids the main points, that the MC has fallen behind due to compensation not commensurate with productivity and that financializaion has allowed the upper class to make even greater gains than what they have captured via wages.

The axiom that it takes money to make money is becoming even stronger.

Horatio Alger is dead and buried, meritocracy is crumbling, if you are from a wealthy family, a degree is not necessary and if you are from the lower class, a degree means little:
RIP, American Dream? Why It's So Hard for the Poor to Get Ahead Today - Matthew O'Brien - The Atlantic

Funny, I don't see how Leo determined what was middle class, other than to pick a middle dollar amount.

Therefore, his disdain for the United States continues through his use of data that has no relevancy.

I wouldn't argue the middle class hasn't been impacted. When public policy and regulatory incrementalism crushes our manufacturing base, it's no wonder the middle class gets hurt.

Until we create a pro-business attitude in the United States again, the middle class will continue to suffer.
 

Gimmesometruth

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Re: Big Lie: America Doesn't Have #1 Richest Middle-Class in the World...We're Ranked

Funny, I don't see how Leo determined what was middle class, other than to pick a middle dollar amount.
His Chart appears to be from the Global Wealth Report, Google is your friend.

Therefore, his disdain for the United States continues through his use of data that has no relevancy.
Um, I think his disdain is over the fact that the middle class in the US has seen no/tiny gains since 1979.

I wouldn't argue the middle class hasn't been impacted. When public policy and regulatory incrementalism crushes our manufacturing base, it's no wonder the middle class gets hurt.
If you mean taxation changes as public policy, I agree, it has allowed the top to hold on to greater gains, and as I showed you in the Detroit discussion, our lack of industrial policy has allowed foreign/international corps to destroy our industrial base.

Until we create a pro-business attitude in the United States again, the middle class will continue to suffer.
It was labor organizations that created the US middle class. It has been their weakening that directly correlates to the middle class declines.
 
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Gimmesometruth

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Re: Big Lie: America Doesn't Have #1 Richest Middle-Class in the World...We're Ranked

"Wealth is measured by the total sum of all our assets (homes, bank accounts, stocks, bonds etc.) minus our liabilities (outstanding loans and other debts). "

we, as a nation, have forsaken fiscal responsibility. People that fall into middle class for wage earnings simply live too lavish of a lifestyle compared to nation like Australia. We live in the now, and don't save properly.
When wages have not kept up with productivity, saving is a luxury.
 

ARealConservative

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Re: Big Lie: America Doesn't Have #1 Richest Middle-Class in the World...We're Ranked

When wages have not kept up with productivity, saving is a luxury.

large screen tv's, cruises, fancy cars and clothes are also luxuries.

The American middle class lives at a completely different level then peers in nations like Australia. the culture and mentality is completely different.
 

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Re: Big Lie: America Doesn't Have #1 Richest Middle-Class in the World...We're Ranked

large screen tv's, cruises, fancy cars and clothes are also luxuries.

The American middle class lives at a completely different level then peers in nations like Australia. the culture and mentality is completely different.

we buy things we don't need with money we don't have to impress people we don't like - dave ramsey

though I think the deck is stacked against the MC by wall st, I also feel like American "middle class" standards of living are better than those in other countries. even if it is because of cheap electronics made in china that were paid for via credit card.
 

Gimmesometruth

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Re: Big Lie: America Doesn't Have #1 Richest Middle-Class in the World...We're Ranked

large screen tv's, cruises, fancy cars and clothes are also luxuries.

The American middle class lives at a completely different level then peers in nations like Australia. the culture and mentality is completely different.
Apparently you have some great amount of knowledge about the middle class in Australia....I don't. As far as your "luxury" items, Camary's are not luxury, $600 wide screens are not "luxury" in 2013. "Fancy clothes"??? WTF!
 

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Re: Big Lie: America Doesn't Have #1 Richest Middle-Class in the World...We're Ranked

His Chart appears to be from the Global Wealth Report, Google is your friend.

Um, I think his disdain is over the fact that the middle class in the US has seen no/tiny gains since 1979.

If you mean taxation changes as public policy, I agree, it has allowed the top to hold on to greater gains, and as I showed you in the Detroit discussion, our lack of industrial policy has allowed foreign/international corps to destroy our industrial base.

It was labor organizations that created the US middle class. It has been their weakening that directly correlates to the middle class declines.



I have no interest in grade school snark. Find someone else to play tether ball with.

The state with the highest taxation in the United States has some of the highest unemployment in the nation as well.

30% of the manufacturing jobs have left the state as well.

Your meme's are crushed under the reality of liberal/progressive run California.

Sorry, but you can't hide the facts when 1 out of 8 people living in this country have to live with them.
 

ARealConservative

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Re: Big Lie: America Doesn't Have #1 Richest Middle-Class in the World...We're Ranked

Apparently you have some great amount of knowledge about the middle class in Australia....I don't. As far as your "luxury" items, Camary's are not luxury, $600 wide screens are not "luxury" in 2013. "Fancy clothes"??? WTF!

I wouldn't say great knowledge, but I have read how they are more frugal and fiscally responsible.

they hold onto cars longer. They spend less on clothes and entertainment budgets (but their homes are slightly larger)
 

Gimmesometruth

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Re: Big Lie: America Doesn't Have #1 Richest Middle-Class in the World...We're Ranked

I have no interest in grade school snark. Find someone else to play tether ball with.

The state with the highest taxation in the United States has some of the highest unemployment in the nation as well.

30% of the manufacturing jobs have left the state as well.

Your meme's are crushed under the reality of liberal/progressive run California.

Sorry, but you can't hide the facts when 1 out of 8 people living in this country have to live with them.
California is 17th in total taxes, the cost of living is commensurate with the desirability of the location.

I think it is so funny that you want to tangent away from the OP's topic.....to trash the state you live (and I lived) in.

Weird.
 

Gimmesometruth

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Re: Big Lie: America Doesn't Have #1 Richest Middle-Class in the World...We're Ranked

I wouldn't say great knowledge, but I have read how they are more frugal and fiscally responsible.

they hold onto cars longer. They spend less on clothes and entertainment budgets (but their homes are slightly larger)
Yawn.
 

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Re: Big Lie: America Doesn't Have #1 Richest Middle-Class in the World...We're Ranked

California is 17th in total taxes, the cost of living is commensurate with the desirability of the location.

I think it is so funny that you want to tangent away from the OP's topic.....to trash the state you live (and I lived) in.

Weird.


I didn't tangent away, I cited one of an endless supply of examples of liberal/progressive policies harming the middle class.

The author of the article cited in the OP is a well know partisan progressive hack. His opinions, and selective data should be viewed within that context.

As to 17th in taxes?


Californians carried the nation's fourth highest state and local tax burden as a proportion of their personal incomes in 2010 - and that was before voters increased sales and income taxes last year - according to the latest national tax survey by the Tax Foundation.​
Read more here: Capitol Alert: California was No. 4 in tax burden before Proposition 30 passed


Any other facts you'd like to present?

The point is California is the Liberal/Progressives worst nightmare. That's why news of the massive multi-year deficits, failing education system, and withering manufacturing base is avoided like the plague by the MSM.
 

Gimmesometruth

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Re: Big Lie: America Doesn't Have #1 Richest Middle-Class in the World...We're Ranked

sorry to bother you with the minutia of why the thread premise is idiotic.
I'm sorry, where did you even mention anything about the wages of the US middle class? You seemed focused on spending.
 

ARealConservative

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Re: Big Lie: America Doesn't Have #1 Richest Middle-Class in the World...We're Ranked

I'm sorry, where did you even mention anything about the wages of the US middle class? You seemed focused on spending.

the study is based on the difference between wages and spending.

My focus is on the cultural differences that makes such a study misleading.
 
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