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Big Freeze and Climate Change- Stupidity or cynicism?

What you've done is construct a straw man argument.
Most of the people on these boards will tell you that
there's been warm-up over the last century. The
disagreement is whether or not it's a problem.

Well, OF COURSE it is a problem, unless you don't mind the fact that Miami, New York City, and all major coastal cities in the world will be under water.

Sure, sure, some people deny that it is a problem.

I don't have a lot of intellectual respect for those.
 
zomg... so ridiculous.

Yet again!!! You're looking at frequency.

To make matters worse, those figures are only US landfall -- which is only a portion of the total number of hurricanes.

To make matters even worse, as ThreeGoofs noted: The line on the chart is not actually a trend line. Here's an actual trend line, same numbers:

View attachment 67249938

Maybe you ought to scrutinize your own sources. Or, y'know, actually read them.


And again, you haven't even touched:
• larger and more intense heat waves
• forest fires happening in unprecedented areas (e.g. the northern parts of Sweden... which are in the Arctic Circle, by the way)
• loss of ice/glacial masses in Greenland, Himalayas, the Arctic etc
• loss of fresh water
• rapid rise in sea levels
• acidification of oceans
• massive loss of coral reefs
• rapid increase in CO2, CH4 and other GHG concentrations in the atmosphere
• rapid increase in global temperatures
• more extreme weather events
• permafrost starting to melt

The graph I posted was severity hurricanes.
The chart you posted was severity hurricanes.
The trend lines through both were downward.
They both show why your source chose the last 36 years for their analysis.
There's no excuse for your contentment to limit it to 36 years.
You didn't wonder why and you weren't curious enough to find out.
I understand why, of course.
Conformity.
That's your failing on this entire subject.
 
The graph I posted was severity hurricanes.
The chart you posted was severity hurricanes.
The trend lines through both were downward.
They both show why your source chose the last 36 years for their analysis.
There's no excuse for your contentment to limit it to 36 years.
You didn't wonder why and you weren't curious enough to find out.
I understand why, of course.
Conformity.
That's your failing on this entire subject.

The trend line was downward.

LOL
 
Well, OF COURSE it is a problem, unless you don't mind the fact that Miami, New York City, and all major coastal cities in the world will be under water.

Sure, sure, some people deny that it is a problem.

I don't have a lot of intellectual respect for those.

No it's not a problem. NYC, Miami, et al, are still doing just fine. At best we're talking about a possible future problem. And considering the track record of the AGW'ers, the suggestion and the consequences and the cause and the solution are very much in doubt.
 
Well, OF COURSE it is a problem, unless you don't mind the fact that Miami, New York City, and all major coastal cities in the world will be under water.

Sure, sure, some people deny that it is a problem.

I don't have a lot of intellectual respect for those.

Sea level has been going up ever since tide gauges started measuring it early in the 19th century

190-091_meantrend.png


Doesn't have anything to do with a warm-up. Of course the water has to be coming from somewhere,
probably the ice caps in Greenland and Antarctica. And you know what? it's so cold in those places
that it never gets above freezing hardly anywhere hardly ever. Ice loss is a function of snow fall and
calving of bergs. The cause and effect of those two events are separated in time by years, decades,
centuries maybe even millennia.

Hardly ever doesn't mean never. Here's link to Nansen Falls in Antarctica The link says it's an
impressive 130 meters wide. But the IPCC tells us that the surface ice mass balance in Antarctica
contributes negatively to sea level rise. Here's Table 10.7

image.png


from the IPCC's AR4 report page 820 that shows that negative contribution for all scenarios. That doesn't mean
Antarctica isn't losing ice, it's just not from surface melting. Climate scientists are telling us that it's melting because
warm ocean water flows beneath the cooler surface water, flows beneath the sea ice, flows beneath shelf ice and then
melts the ice at the grounding line and then flows upwards and back to the ocean. Here's a graphic of that:

PIG.ai_-768x440.jpg


And Web Page

And of course that "circumpolar deep water" is warm due to CO2 blah blah blah...

My B.S. meter started beeping on that explanation about the time they talk about deep water warm enough
to melt fresh water ice.

I'm not saying that ice bergs calving into the sea don't exceed the amount of snow that falls; I'm saying that
temperature doesn't have anything to do with it. And banning fossil fuels isn't going to stop the trend.
 
Using the big freeze to deny climate change... stupidity or cynicism?

Using the big freeze to deny climate change... stupidity or cynicism? | Michael M Mann | Opinion | The Guardian



Wise words from a distinguished scientist.

I always ask he folks here who post nothing but C&P from related sites (blogs), especially if the people who own those sites(blogs) haven't been corrupted by librul college edumacations.

That's what this subforum is full of. C&P...

For what it's worth, last summer was hotter, and this winter has been warmer, but there were fewer hurricanes than the last couple of years. That's 4 years worth of McData right there!
 
Having an extra 0.01% of a benign beneficial naturally occurring gas (thats actually a component of your natural breathing cycle) within our atmospheric envelope is not a problem, however much you'd like to demonise it and humanity for it.

To put that into context watch this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuwEHL8mG6o

Extra CO2 is net benefit not a problem as the observed greening of the earth in recent decades bears witness
Please see the consensus of virtually everyone in the scientific community around the world refuting that. Human emissions of CO2 are anything but natural, and they do cause harm. But you choose to live in conspiracy world, so I don't really see the point of engaging further.
 
Sea level has been going up ever since tide gauges started measuring it early in the 19th century

190-091_meantrend.png


Doesn't have anything to do with a warm-up. Of course the water has to be coming from somewhere,
probably the ice caps in Greenland and Antarctica. And you know what? it's so cold in those places
that it never gets above freezing hardly anywhere hardly ever. Ice loss is a function of snow fall and
calving of bergs. The cause and effect of those two events are separated in time by years, decades,
centuries maybe even millennia.

Hardly ever doesn't mean never. Here's link to Nansen Falls in Antarctica The link says it's an
impressive 130 meters wide. But the IPCC tells us that the surface ice mass balance in Antarctica
contributes negatively to sea level rise. Here's Table 10.7

image.png


from the IPCC's AR4 report page 820 that shows that negative contribution for all scenarios. That doesn't mean
Antarctica isn't losing ice, it's just not from surface melting. Climate scientists are telling us that it's melting because
warm ocean water flows beneath the cooler surface water, flows beneath the sea ice, flows beneath shelf ice and then
melts the ice at the grounding line and then flows upwards and back to the ocean. Here's a graphic of that:

PIG.ai_-768x440.jpg


And Web Page

And of course that "circumpolar deep water" is warm due to CO2 blah blah blah...

My B.S. meter started beeping on that explanation about the time they talk about deep water warm enough
to melt fresh water ice.

I'm not saying that ice bergs calving into the sea don't exceed the amount of snow that falls; I'm saying that
temperature doesn't have anything to do with it. And banning fossil fuels isn't going to stop the trend.

Oh boy, you go to a lot of trouble to refute the obvious.
What a waste of time!
Like I said, no intellectual respect for such types, and no interest.
Good bye. Have a nice and cold life.
 
Please see the consensus of virtually everyone in the scientific community around the world refuting that. Human emissions of CO2 are anything but natural, and they do cause harm. But you choose to live in conspiracy world, so I don't really see the point of engaging further.

No I just view fact as more important than opinion
 
Sea level has been going up ever since tide gauges started measuring it early in the 19th century

190-091_meantrend.png


Doesn't have anything to do with a warm-up. Of course the water has to be coming from somewhere,
probably the ice caps in Greenland and Antarctica. And you know what? it's so cold in those places
that it never gets above freezing hardly anywhere hardly ever. Ice loss is a function of snow fall and
calving of bergs. The cause and effect of those two events are separated in time by years, decades,
centuries maybe even millennia.

Hardly ever doesn't mean never. Here's link to Nansen Falls in Antarctica The link says it's an
impressive 130 meters wide. But the IPCC tells us that the surface ice mass balance in Antarctica
contributes negatively to sea level rise. Here's Table 10.7

image.png


from the IPCC's AR4 report page 820 that shows that negative contribution for all scenarios. That doesn't mean
Antarctica isn't losing ice, it's just not from surface melting. Climate scientists are telling us that it's melting because
warm ocean water flows beneath the cooler surface water, flows beneath the sea ice, flows beneath shelf ice and then
melts the ice at the grounding line and then flows upwards and back to the ocean. Here's a graphic of that:

PIG.ai_-768x440.jpg


And Web Page

And of course that "circumpolar deep water" is warm due to CO2 blah blah blah...

My B.S. meter started beeping on that explanation about the time they talk about deep water warm enough
to melt fresh water ice.

I'm not saying that ice bergs calving into the sea don't exceed the amount of snow that falls; I'm saying that
temperature doesn't have anything to do with it. And banning fossil fuels isn't going to stop the trend.

Here's a science experiment for you. Put a 3-foot long, 2" wide icicle in cup of water. Wait a couple hours. Did you need a mop?
 
Here's a science experiment for you. Put a 3-foot long, 2" wide icicle in cup of water. Wait a couple hours. Did you need a mop?

Darn! Why didn't I think of that?

il_570xN.585162521_cb5z.jpg



Considering that diagram of how "warm" circumpolar water "melts" the continental
glacier at the grounding line. I've been thinking about making some colored ice
cubes with food color and mixing up some sea water (3.5% NaCl) and see if the
colored plume from the melting ice cube goes up or down. The diagram says it
flows up.

Maybe later today when I have nothing else to do.

I need a nice tall clear container - Good Will is a good place for that sort of thing.
I'll have to play with the water temperature so that it's just above freezing to see
if I can coax the melt water up instead of down like the diagram says.

Years ago when I taught 8th grade general science, I put on that little demo but
with fresh water. The colored melt plume in a 1000 ml beaker made a nice vortex.
I remember there was one girl who thought it was neat, the rest of the class was
suitably unimpressed.
 
Considering that diagram of how "warm" circumpolar water "melts" the continental
glacier at the grounding line. I've been thinking about making some colored ice
cubes with food color and mixing up some sea water (3.5% NaCl) and see if the
colored plume from the melting ice cube goes up or down. The diagram says it
flows up.

Maybe later today when I have nothing else to do.

I need a nice tall clear container - Good Will is a good place for that sort of thing.
I'll have to play with the water temperature so that it's just above freezing to see if I can coax the melt water up instead of down like the diagram says.

Sounds like fun. Are you going to simulate the ocean currents as well? Because not doing so would make your little experiment completely pointless.
 
Sea level has been going up ever since tide gauges started measuring it early in the 19th century

190-091_meantrend.png


Doesn't have anything to do with a warm-up. Of course the water has to be coming from somewhere,
probably the ice caps in Greenland and Antarctica. And you know what? it's so cold in those places
that it never gets above freezing hardly anywhere hardly ever. Ice loss is a function of snow fall and
calving of bergs. The cause and effect of those two events are separated in time by years, decades,
centuries maybe even millennia.

Hardly ever doesn't mean never. Here's link to Nansen Falls in Antarctica The link says it's an
impressive 130 meters wide. But the IPCC tells us that the surface ice mass balance in Antarctica
contributes negatively to sea level rise. Here's Table 10.7

image.png


from the IPCC's AR4 report page 820 that shows that negative contribution for all scenarios. That doesn't mean
Antarctica isn't losing ice, it's just not from surface melting. Climate scientists are telling us that it's melting because
warm ocean water flows beneath the cooler surface water, flows beneath the sea ice, flows beneath shelf ice and then
melts the ice at the grounding line and then flows upwards and back to the ocean. Here's a graphic of that:

PIG.ai_-768x440.jpg


And Web Page

And of course that "circumpolar deep water" is warm due to CO2 blah blah blah...

My B.S. meter started beeping on that explanation about the time they talk about deep water warm enough
to melt fresh water ice.
It should. There are no deep water warm currents. Warm water rises, just like warm air. The only deep water currents are cold ones.
I'm not saying that ice bergs calving into the sea don't exceed the amount of snow that falls; I'm saying that
temperature doesn't have anything to do with it.
Quite correct. Calving of a glacier has more to do with excess ice that can no longer support it's own weight.
And banning fossil fuels isn't going to stop the trend.
Fossils don't burn. We don't use them for fuel. Banning carbon based fuels, however, won't stop a glacier, but it WILL make a lot of people miserable and will even kill some of them.
 
Here's a science experiment for you. Put a 3-foot long, 2" wide icicle in cup of water. Wait a couple hours. Did you need a mop?

Irrelevant experiment.

Here's a better one:
Make a glass of icewater. The ice should be floating in the water. Fill the glass to the brim. Set it out and wait for the ice to melt. Do you need a mop?

No.
 
Irrelevant experiment.

Here's a better one:
Make a glass of icewater. The ice should be floating in the water. Fill the glass to the brim. Set it out and wait for the ice to melt. Do you need a mop?

No.

Wait a minute, you've posted the absurd statement over and over again that "Ice does not melt, only water melts". So you admit now you were just trolling all that time? ;)
 
Sounds like fun. Are you going to simulate the ocean currents as well? Because not doing so would make your little experiment completely pointless.

I did the experiment and on the first one out of the box, water temperature 37°F,
the meltwater dyed red pooled on TOP of the water. Yes, I was hoping for different
results, didn't happen. Maybe tomorrow I'll post some images.
 
Wait a minute, you've posted the absurd statement over and over again that "Ice does not melt, only water melts". So you admit now you were just trolling all that time? ;)

Well you caught me. I used a colloquialism. Ice indeed does not melt, water does.
 
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