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Biden Unveils Plan to Give 11 Million Illegals Citizenship

jonny5 said:
You did assume. You didnt mention anyone but single mothers and farm jobs. When there are other people on welfare and other forms of assistance, and other types of jobs that could be filled. And Im not trying to solve the proble with people on welfare. Im asking where the logic is in importing workers when we are paying millions of people NOT to work. That goes for farm jobs to tech jobs. Theres 700k job openings in retail for example. Now there will be millions of illegals, migrants, refugees competing for those jobs?
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I mentioned single mothers, immigrants and children because that makes up the majority of who gets welfare in this country. There are a small amount of handicapped, and those who are injured but why would I mention them in relation to the question? I put a link. I also mentioned just because they get welfare doesn't mean they don't work.

So, we aren't paying millions of people not to work. I've already explained that we do not pay unemployment with our taxes. I own a business, and that is not how it works. We are paying people a living wage, if they do not make it from their employer. We are helping businesses keep employees despite NOT paying a living wage, not the people we are helping.

Also, are you using pandemic numbers or pre pandemic numbers? Could you provide links?

We aren't normally paying millions of people not to work. We are normally making up wages for people who already work, so that people can eat and go to the doctor and afford rent which is wise to do.

I also will add, that immigrants make up a lot of small businesses and create more jobs for everyone. Which is impressive since they only make up a small % of people here. They contribute.

Now migrant workers are paid so little, that I believe we end up supplementing them or those Americans who would be willing with more welfare. That said, we can not just PUT people in jobs we want to put them into. Not many will willingly take 10 dollars an hour to gut fish, or pick fruit under harsh conditions but, the farms still need people to do this. But, since it's cheaper to hire migrants, and they are used to working in harsh conditions for less, this will be hard to fill.

Tech jobs, well, that has more to do with American companies, and their desire to make more profit. I do believe in regulating this area.

I work in construction and see many illegal hires for jobs Americans could do but aren't hired for because citizens can't be threatened or taken advantage of, or have pay withheld or never paid.
They can and do simply hire them for jobs and never pay them, or pay them way less than min. an hour because they have little recourse, so they make profit off them. So, a good legal system for immigration and green cards would benefit everyone. Including Americans trying to compete.

They won't avoid all the other costs that go with hiring a legal citizen, and those who don't get paid will have recourse if they don't. We need certain job experience in this country, so it would be nice if we could recruit immigrants in those fields. I have a hard time finding plumbers for instance. I would gladly hire a plumber who had experience who wanted to immigrate.
 
Ginger Ale said:
I mentioned single mothers, immigrants and children because that makes up the majority of who gets welfare in this country. There are a small amount of handicapped, and those who are injured but why would I mention them in relation to the question? I put a link. I also mentioned just because they get welfare doesn't mean they don't work.

So, we aren't paying millions of people not to work. I've already explained that we do not pay unemployment with our taxes. I own a business, and that is not how it works. We are paying people a living wage, if they do not make it from their employer. We are helping businesses keep employees despite NOT paying a living wage, not the people we are helping.

Also, are you using pandemic numbers or pre pandemic numbers? Could you provide links?

We aren't normally paying millions of people not to work. We are normally making up wages for people who already work, so that people can eat and go to the doctor and afford rent which is wise to do.

I also will add, that immigrants make up a lot of small businesses and create more jobs for everyone. Which is impressive since they only make up a small % of people here. They contribute.

Now migrant workers are paid so little, that I believe we end up supplementing them or those Americans who would be willing with more welfare. That said, we can not just PUT people in jobs we want to put them into. Not many will willingly take 10 dollars an hour to gut fish, or pick fruit under harsh conditions but, the farms still need people to do this. But, since it's cheaper to hire migrants, and they are used to working in harsh conditions for less, this will be hard to fill.

Tech jobs, well, that has more to do with American companies, and their desire to make more profit. I do believe in regulating this area.

I work in construction and see many illegal hires for jobs Americans could do but aren't hired for because citizens can't be threatened or taken advantage of, or have pay withheld or never paid.
They can and do simply hire them for jobs and never pay them, or pay them way less than min. an hour because they have little recourse, so they make profit off them. So, a good legal system for immigration and green cards would benefit everyone. Including Americans trying to compete.

They won't avoid all the other costs that go with hiring a legal citizen, and those who don't get paid will have recourse if they don't. We need certain job experience in this country, so it would be nice if we could recruit immigrants in those fields. I have a hard time finding plumbers for instance. I would gladly hire a plumber who had experience who wanted to immigrate.
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Wouldnt you rather hire your neighbor?
 
Paradoxical said:
Just FYI, this is in the rules of this site:



Very few of you do this. You slap up a link and expect ME, a busy person, to go to your link and try to glean what the hell you are talking about. Some of you don't read your own links. You just slap it up because the headline (which is phony) seems to portray your beliefs. You and others here can keep slapping up links and I won't read them. I have better things to do. You need to quote the part(s) that tend to confirm what it is you are claiming is the truth.
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I see, when you start a thread?(LOL)
 
Luckyone said:
That is what I call a person with no heart. The hell with them, they are ILLEGAL!

No fault of their own but............Oh my gosh, that is unforgivable, isn't it?

Let me ask you something. Did you EVER do something illegal in your life? Did you ever do something illegal in your life without meaning to do so, like when you were under 18 years old? Smoked weed or drank beer before 18 years of age?

If so, why aren't you paying for it?
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That is what I call a person with no heart. The hell with them, they are ILLEGAL!
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EMOTION out ways our LAWS

Liberal mindset
 
Nickyjo said:
And that's a good thing, keeping the Mexican economy healthier, for example. They also keep prices low on some goods and services in the US. It's a win-win for the US and Mexico both. The free market in action.
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And that's a good thing, keeping the Mexican economy healthier, for example.
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Until one day they don't need the U.S.?(wink)
They also keep prices low on some goods and services in the US.
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yes, all offset by what they take(wink)
 
Moot said:
I posted that link before you did. lol

Same link said illegals pay more taxes than they use in services.....
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Oh yes, your link(cough)

The one that said somewhere between 50% and 75%(LOL)

What accuracy!!!(LOL)

Try and keep a straight face(LOL)



Congressional Budget Office indicates that between 50 percent and 75 percent of unauthorized immigrants pay federal, state, and local taxes.
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Luther said:
EMOTION out ways our LAWS

Liberal mindset
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So, I guess that a person that steals an apple to feed his family should be punished as strongly as the person who steals a bank in order to get rich, right? After all, both are thieves.

This is not emotion, it is common sense. You punish people based on intent more so than in the the action itself. This is also why manslaughter is punished in a lesser way than a killing with purprose.

In addition, the DACA people have already paid and paid and paid to our country whatever it is their parents did.

Your answer means that not only you have no heart but also no common sense.
 
Luckyone said:
So, I guess that a person that steals an apple to feed his family should be punished as strongly as the person who steals a bank in order to get rich, right? After all, both are thieves.

This is not emotion, it is common sense. You punish people based on intent more so than in the the action itself. This is also why manslaughter is punished in a lesser way than a killing with purprose.

In addition, the DACA people have already paid and paid and paid to our country whatever it is their parents did.

Your answer means that not only you have no heart but also no common sense.
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Without getting into what should happen to DACA folks, please explain how they have "paid and paid and paid". Some may have if they served in our armed forces, but the others?
 
jonny5 said:
Why would he be if illegals just got amnesty and took all the plumbing jobs, and he can live off unemployment?
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I can't do anything about the way you feel about people or what you assume they'll do in the future.
 
Ginger Ale said:
I can't do anything about the way you feel about people or what you assume they'll do in the future.
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You can support rational immigration policy though. Stop letting in millions of immigrants when we have a pandemic, millions unemployed, and millions more on govt assistance.
 
jonny5 said:
You can support rational immigration policy though. Stop letting in millions of immigrants when we have a pandemic, millions unemployed, and millions more on govt assistance.
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I do support a rational immigration policy.

I would agree with you that we need lock downs during the pandemic if I thought you really cared about the spread of a virus, but I don't. I think you just don't want the spread of undocumented immigrants trying to apply for citizenship or work in the U.S.

I think the whole country should be locked down until we are vaccinated. Including schools. I think everyone should wear a mask, and so do most of those coming into the country just for the record.
 
washunut said:
Without getting into what should happen to DACA folks, please explain how they have "paid and paid and paid". Some may have if they served in our armed forces, but the others?
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They have all been productive individuals into our society. They have paid taxes, have purchased products, have participated in community projects, and have helped others as well.

For this, they have been tagged as DACA and have done all of this for many years under the threat of being thrown out of the country. If you throw them out you accomplish very little and lose a lot. 11 million people that have paid and helped the economy. What do you replace that with?
 
Paradoxical said:
Once again, you are wrong. WHY are far left wingers so wrong so often?
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I'm actually more Right wing than you and you don't even know it(wink)
 
Luckyone said:
So, I guess that a person that steals an apple to feed his family should be punished as strongly as the person who steals a bank in order to get rich, right? After all, both are thieves.

This is not emotion, it is common sense. You punish people based on intent more so than in the the action itself. This is also why manslaughter is punished in a lesser way than a killing with purprose.

In addition, the DACA people have already paid and paid and paid to our country whatever it is their parents did.

Your answer means that not only you have no heart but also no common sense.
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So what you're saying is that anyone can come to this country whenever they want to?

Holy guacamole!
 
Ginger Ale said:
I do support a rational immigration policy.

I would agree with you that we need lock downs during the pandemic if I thought you really cared about the spread of a virus, but I don't. I think you just don't want the spread of undocumented immigrants trying to apply for citizenship or work in the U.S.

I think the whole country should be locked down until we are vaccinated. Including schools. I think everyone should wear a mask, and so do most of those coming into the country just for the record.
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Caring is irrelevant. Counterproductive in fact. Logically if they arent coming into the country they dont need to wear a mask. Logically less people coming in, especially since they are sneaking in with no regulation, that has a greater chance to spread the virus. Logically we know the whole country CANT be locked down. So instead we need to do thing we actually can do, and that means securing the border and have a logical immigration policy. Not just for the pandemic, but to stop all the other harms.
 
Luckyone said:
They have all been productive individuals into our society. They have paid taxes, have purchased products, have participated in community projects, and have helped others as well.

For this, they have been tagged as DACA and have done all of this for many years under the threat of being thrown out of the country. If you throw them out you accomplish very little and lose a lot. 11 million people that have paid and helped the economy. What do you replace that with?
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DACA is less than a million. No one really cares about children who were brought here illegally though. Thats just a bargaining chip. The 20 million illegals that have been here, worse, the next 20 million are the ones we need to be concerened about. They have not generally paid income tax unless they stealings IDs. They work illegally, under the table, bypassing all the regulations the rest of us and business owners have to follow. Even if you assume every illegal uses an ITN, thats 4 million people. LEaving 15 million without an ITN.
 
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