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Here's Obama's exit strategy: "He (Obama) has pledged to push for new measures in his State of the Union address."
Obama is going to wail and cry because the meanies in Congress just won't do what he wants.
Sketching out details of the plan Thursday, Vice President Joe Biden said he would give President Barack Obama a set of recommendations by next Tuesday. The NRA, one of the pro-gun groups that met with Biden during the day, rejected the effort to limit ammunition and dug in on its opposition to an assault weapons ban, which Obama has previously said he will propose to Congress.
"The vice president made it clear, made it explicitly clear, that the president had already made up his mind on those issues," NRA president David Keene said following the meeting. "We made it clear that we disagree
Opposition from the well-funded and politically powerful NRA underscores the challenges that await the White House if it seeks congressional approval for limiting guns and ammunition. Obama can use his executive powers to act alone on some gun measures, but his options on the proposals opposed by the NRA are limited without Congress' cooperation. with them."White House officials said the vice president didn't expect to win over the NRA and other gun groups on those key issues. But the administration was hoping to soften their opposition in order to rally support from pro-gun lawmakers on Capitol Hill.
Biden also talked about holes in NICS — the National Instant Criminal Background Check System — when states don't relay information to the database used by dealers to check purchasers. Advocates blame Congress for not fully funding a law that provides money to help states send records to the database.
For example, advocates say Obama could order the Justice Department to prosecute more people flagged by background checks as prohibited purchasers when they try to buy guns; expand a rule that requires dealers to notify the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms and Explosives when someone tries to buy multiple semiautomatic rifles, a program now confined to Mexico border states, and increase enforcement actions at gun shows.
The group Mayors Against Illegal Guns has sent the White House 40 steps it says would save lives and dramatically improve enforcement of existing laws without any action by Congress.
The president hopes to announce his administration's next steps to tackle gun violence shortly after he is sworn in for a second term. He has pledged to push for new measures in his State of the Union address.
Biden, NRA clash over new gun control proposals - Yahoo! News
Associated Press – 6 mins ago Jan 102013<<<<<More here, way more
Looks Like Obama is going to push the issue anyways with his State of the Union. Biden admits this is not going anywhere but that is the downplay. As they are going to try and push gun legislation. Anyone notice the part about how Obama could use some EP on some measures? Thoughts?
Here's Obama's exit strategy: "He (Obama) has pledged to push for new measures in his State of the Union address."
Obama is going to wail and cry because the meanies in Congress just won't do what he wants.
I'm all for a push to notify ATF when a prohibited person fills out a 4473 and I have no problem with punishing such a person if they are, in fact, prohibited but another AWB and and a restriction on ammunition (both of which, it seems, Obama has decided on) is wholly unacceptable.
Biden also talked about holes in NICS — the National Instant Criminal Background Check System — when states don't relay information to the database used by dealers to check purchasers. Advocates blame Congress for not fully funding a law that provides money to help states send records to the database.....snip
What solution do you see for this issue with the states? Why would the Fed need a National Registry for those who owned weapons?
NICS isn't a national registry. It's an FBI check of criminal violations for the individual and it's not supposed to be recorded. As far as states submitting information to NICS I believe what they are talking about is mental health services are not regularly sending information in to the system with regard to someone who has been found to be a likely danger to themselves or to others.
Well I think they want money since the states don't relay information to dealers in order to check purchases. But then Why should they even be seeking money from the Fed. That is their own state and they should be able to send out info to any gun dealers within their own state.
This is going off a bit fuzzy memory, but IIRC there are legal requirements for how long that response take before the check must be waived in favor of the purchaser. Which makes uptime a lot more important.I'm not sure what you're getting at.
NICS isn't a State level operation. The reason they want more money is to beef up the availability of the service. A NICS check shouldn't take more than a couple of minutes but I have heard all kinds of stories about the system getting overwhelmed in the past few years when everybody and their uncle decides to go to the local gun store at the same time.
This is going off a bit fuzzy memory, but IIRC there are legal requirements for how long that response take before the check must be waived in favor of the purchaser. Which makes uptime a lot more important.
Also, if turn-around time is greatly lowered and system availability is improved it could allow removing the “gun show” exemption without actual impact on [otherwise legitimate] sales, providing that the booth operator employs appropriate tech whose cost has been dropping.
I did not mean to turn it into a completely open, public hotline. As you say there are important privacy concerns. What I mean to get these guys with $100K merchandise on display to stop pretending they are not established, “pro” retailers. I understand at least some of the rationale behind the gun show exemption, and am sympathetic to allowing commerce to occur. But there has to be a better compromise.I had to check to be sure but it's 3 days.
I really don't think that NICS should be available to the public. There is just too much room for abuse. Imagine calling up just to see if the person you're dating is a psycho or something.
I had to check to be sure but it's 3 days.
I really don't think that NICS should be available to the public. There is just too much room for abuse. Imagine calling up just to see if the person you're dating is a psycho or something.
The Constitution power of the VP is exactly equal to how good he is at convincing the President, plus the tie-breaker [that hardly comes up in these times of procedural filibuster].What makes it interesting is the constitutional power of the VP is only as backup prez and casting a tie breaking vote if that happens. Otherwise, he's exactly nobody with less power than our local elected mesquito control officer.
IMO it is all smoke screen knowing he really cant go after guns and hurting many Democrats for their upcoming elections, they would not get voted in. As he knows Republicans can agree with looking at the mental health issue and getting the guns out of the criminals hands as they say. But then at the same time Obama picks Hagel as SOD which cause flak amongst Republicans within their own ranks. Then he Nominates Lew as Treasury Sec. Knowing Lew doesn't negotiate with Republicans and that the GOP will certainly be in an uproar.
Obama knows Lew is a D.C. insider and has been since Clinton years. Always in Washington working for some Democrat somewhere. So more controversy for the MS.Media to pick up on.. Obama knows how to play divisions. This was his specialty as a Community organizer and Activist. All of this is done to avoid the real issue. The Economy and that what Obama is doing isn't working. It is real simple.....The US Cannot Spend More Than what we are bringing in.
Even the Independent Gun Peeps asked Biden.....was there No Wiggle Room. Due to the tone and stance that Biden used. I would be more concerned about what those EP measures are that Obama can take without Congressional Approval.
The Bush White House was most adept at using weapons grade propaganda on the citizens of the United States to gain public approval to needless invade Iraq and cost the lives of hundreds of thousands of people and commit the American taxpayer to fund astronomical expenditures. It could not have happened if the public had not been duped by mass media and bought the lies hook, line, and sinker. The Bush White House was absolutely masterful at doing that. Goebbels would have been in awe. I'm serious.
Once that genie was out of the bottle and played so well there was no chance in hell the presidents succeeding Bush, no matter whom they were and whom they will be, would/will not study it, improve it and use even better each administration.
If the Bush White House could, via a very well conducted propaganda campaign, manipulate the American people to support the invasion and occupation of Iraq, the Obama White House can certainly use an well planned propaganda campaign to manipulate a significant number of Americans to support (what will later prove to be incremental) gun control measures. I have no doubt whatsoever.
FYI, it is against the law for the federal government to use propaganda on the people of the United States. Or is has been. Mainstream media which has long been Washington's sock puppet (non-partisan in that regard) has failed to ring the bell on this one, but as of the last time I check The National Defense Authorization Act of 2013 will negate the Smith-Mundt Act of 1948 which prohibits the federal government from using propaganda on US citizens.
That's strong stuff. Why the hell would Washington want authorize the use of government propaganda on Americans? I can't think of any good reasons, unless you were all orgasmic over the invasion of Iraq. Washington is very capable of doing the same with gun control or damn near any other measure requiring public support. Don't be surprised.
Μολὼν λαβέ;1061340629 said:And none of Biden's proposals would have prevented the two mass killings of the past year. The Obama administration is attempting to infringe on the Bill of Rights as most people expected would happen if he was reelected. What part of "shall not be infringed" do they not understand?
Well since it is not Bush's Watch and it is Obama's......that's where it is at. So that's where one has to start looking from. As there is nothing that is illegal in the political strategy that has been put into play. Not unless someone could prove so anyways.
Moreover you can't deny that the MS media cycles thru certain news pieces within a 3 day period.
Yeah and subliminal messaging use to be illegal too. We saw how long that lasted even tho the law has been in place for how long now?
What did you think that due to Obama being President that such should be swept aside and there should be no concern? Especially when there is favorable media bias in favor for him.
What now that this guy is a President.....so all things common sense should be swept aside cuz he has thought about it or something?
I expect that's right. Four more years of this turkey...
We don't know yet the degree to which the government is using the press to manipulate the people. Hell, most of America isn't aware it was the victim of weapons grade propaganda during the run up to Iraq. Books have been written about, college classes are taught about it, papers have been written about, statistics and research and all of that is available, but most people still don't know. You don't know if what is being done is illegal or not. What we do know is that even if it is no one in government is going to jail for it. It will soon be legal anyway. Washington, both parties, want it to be legal to use propaganda on Americans. Why not use it to influence the masses and take guns away?
I'm not certain I understand your point or why it might be relevant.
It wasn't all that effective and has long since been replaced by more sophisticated methods.
The media was favorable to Bush until well after the nation became involved in a political/humanitarian/international disaster in Iraq. It was the media who sold Bush's war, if you remember. Bush could never have invaded Iraq without the media creating a groundswell of patriot fever for invading a country that had nothing to do with 9/11.
That power now belongs to the Obama administration, only this administration having gone to school on success of the Bush administration will fine tune it and improved as will the president who one replaces Obama. Americans will continue to be duped until the nation figures it out. I don't have a great deal of hope for that happening.
We live in the Age of Information and one hell of a lot of people are completely clueless as to what that means. Common sense is rare in a nation that argues over whether Fox is more biased than CNN. They've already accepted the fact that one or the other or another must be a valid news source. How about none? Television news isn't really news. It's spoon fed, easily digested, tiny bits of information that has very little value. People, however, can't or refuse to consider that and they keep on watching - and believing. Nothing is more ripe for abuse and manipulation!
It would seem that the public is being whipped into a frenzy but the media, media which is largely a sock puppet of the presiding administration. It's not subliminal (that's old school), it's much more complex than that. The point is it works and works well. Would the current administration use it to influence public opinion, suppress rational public consideration of facts to achieve its goal? Oh, hell yes. Every administration would and will. There's a reason it has been against the law since 1948.
Is happening now under the current administration regarding gun control? I suspect it, yes. No one has proven it at this point. We do know that the growing public hysteria does not match the perceived risks. Why the public hysteria? It is being ratcheted up by the media. If the White House really wants to try this issue in the press - and I think it may - the only defense citizens have are rational thinking and a healthy disregard for everything the see and hear. Guess what? America is no longer capable of doing that.
And then comes Hillary. You know this right?
I'm all for a push to notify ATF when a prohibited person fills out a 4473 and I have no problem with punishing such a person if they are, in fact, prohibited but another AWB and and a restriction on ammunition (both of which, it seems, Obama has decided on) is wholly unacceptable.
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