• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Biden nominates Arizonians McCain and Flake to Ambassadorships

A most disappointing response.

I guess facts just don't matter when your mind is made up.

"Facts "don't matter when it's none of my business. What I care about are the 3 P's: policy, procedure and politics. Petty BS isn't one of them.

What happens in someone's marriage is their business. I just don't see the point of being some ninny henpecking about it 40+ years later.
 
"Facts "don't matter when it's none of my business. What I care about are the 3 P's: policy, procedure and politics. Petty BS isn't one of them.

What happens in someone's marriage is their business. I just don't see the point of being some ninny henpecking about it 40+ years later.

I get that.

I'll simply say that said individual had a negative impact on his party in his home state.

That isn't 40+ years later and we are still dealing with it.

McCain loyalists (like my in-laws) don't know any better.

For me it is still a present day issue.

As for Cindy McCain:

Cindy McCain is a failure in my estimation and Biden appointing her anything but kitchen dishwasher is an indication that something is wrong.

She and her family continue to bamboozle a significant number of Arizona republicans.

It only makes it more challenging for us.

She has a right to do whatever.

And so do I.

It ain't about her marriage. It's about the load of crap they've sold downhole for such a very long time.
 
I get that.

I'll simply say that said individual had a negative impact on his party in his home state.

That isn't 40+ years later and we are still dealing with it.

McCain loyalists (like my in-laws) don't know any better.

For me it is still a present day issue.

As for Cindy McCain:

Cindy McCain is a failure in my estimation and Biden appointing her anything but kitchen dishwasher is an indication that something is wrong.

She and her family continue to bamboozle a significant number of Arizona republicans.

It only makes it more challenging for us.

She has a right to do whatever.

And so do I.

It ain't about her marriage. It's about the load of crap they've sold downhole for such a very long time.

I'm with your in-laws. I'm no Republican by any means, but I would have just about walked through fire to see McCain become President in 2000. In my opinion, when people start looking for turning points since the end of the Cold War, most people point to 9/11.... whenever anyone ask me, I always cite February 19, 2000 - the day of the South Carolina primary. Nothing has seemed right since then.

I'm not saying McCain was an angel by any means.... the day he named Palin as his running mate was the last instant I ever seriously considered voting for a Republican. But he was past his "best before" date by that time. If he had won the nomination and then the election in 2000, I think we'd be in a far better position than we find ourselves today.
 
I'm with your in-laws. I'm no Republican by any means, but I would have just about walked through fire to see McCain become President in 2000. In my opinion, when people start looking for turning points since the end of the Cold War, most people point to 9/11.... whenever anyone ask me, I always cite February 19, 2000 - the day of the South Carolina primary. Nothing has seemed right since then.

I'm not saying McCain was an angel by any means.... the day he named Palin as his running mate was the last instant I ever seriously considered voting for a Republican. But he was past his "best before" date by that time. If he had won the nomination and then the election in 2000, I think we'd be in a far better position than we find ourselves today.

You don't have to agree that McCain destroyed the conservative bench in AZ. It's not something that interests you (understandably).

For me, it's an abhorrent mess.

Thanks to McCain.

With regards to 2000, I certainly wasn't a fan of GWB's. Nobody will know what things would have been like had history been different. That's the problem. We don't get to relive it.
 
You don't have to agree that McCain destroyed the conservative bench in AZ. It's not something that interests you (understandably).

For me, it's an abhorrent mess.

Thanks to McCain.

With regards to 2000, I certainly wasn't a fan of GWB's. Nobody will know what things would have been like had history been different. That's the problem. We don't get to relive it.

I'll be the first to admit that I'm no expert on Arizona GOP internal politics.... but it seems to me that if you want to blame someone for driving the party to the extreme right, it should be Jan Brewer and her immigration enforcement power grab. McCain at least put up a sensible immigration policy (that won support from the Bush Administration) that didn't have the effect of offending the 1/3 of Arizona voters of Hispanic origin right out of the gate.

That's the choice Republicans have across the country... you can be hard-right or you can be open-tent (small "d") democratic, but you can't be both.
 
I'll be the first to admit that I'm no expert on Arizona GOP internal politics.... but it seems to me that if you want to blame someone for driving the party to the extreme right, it should be Jan Brewer and her immigration enforcement power grab. McCain at least put up a sensible immigration policy (that won support from the Bush Administration) that didn't have the effect of offending the 1/3 of Arizona voters of Hispanic origin right out of the gate.

That's the choice Republicans have across the country... you can be hard-right or you can be open-tent (small "d") democratic, but you can't be both.

Let's leave it at that.

Again, I appreciate your well reasoned posts.
 
I'm not looking for appreciation, Hiker - I'm looking for a debate.
I'll be the first to admit that I'm no expert on Arizona GOP internal politics.... but it seems to me that if you want to blame someone for driving the party to the extreme right, it should be Jan Brewer and her immigration enforcement power grab. McCain at least put up a sensible immigration policy (that won support from the Bush Administration) that didn't have the effect of offending the 1/3 of Arizona voters of Hispanic origin right out of the gate.

That's the choice Republicans have across the country... you can be hard-right or you can be open-tent (small "d") democratic, but you can't be both.

There was no hard drive to the right. That is the point. You don't see AZ as a deep red state anymore because conservatives were essentially purged from the system by the person many refer to as "John McStain".

The loss of core conservatives has created (as it has in other places) a vacuum that has been filled by far-right hard-liners who tolerate no-one who has a different point of view. If Brewer helped bring them out of the woodwork....then so be it.

What I consider true conservatives (many who will have voted for Trump but don't necessarily like him and certainly don't support his post election whining) are simply in orbit, alone, and with nothing to coalesce around. They are not there to counter the shift you describe and McCain gets some of the credit for creating the very thing he cried about.
 
There was no hard drive to the right. That is the point. You don't see AZ as a deep red state anymore because conservatives were essentially purged from the system by the person many refer to as "John McStain".

The loss of core conservatives has created (as it has in other places) a vacuum that has been filled by far-right hard-liners who tolerate no-one who has a different point of view. If Brewer helped bring them out of the woodwork....then so be it.

What I consider true conservatives (many who will have voted for Trump but don't necessarily like him and certainly don't support his post election whining) are simply in orbit, alone, and with nothing to coalesce around. They are not there to counter the shift you describe and McCain gets some of the credit for creating the very thing he cried about.

I don't know what to tell you, Hiker. Maybe Arizona right-wingers will be taken more seriously once they stop using childish monikers like "John McStain"? Seriously... who wants to vote for someone who sounds like a 6th Grade playground bully every time they open their mouth?

Every time I hear a politician go there - I don't care if it's a left winger or a right winger - there's a voice in my head that goes "Grow up already, you ****ing child."
 
Who Biden picks as Ambassadors does absolutely dick for him in 2024 with voters.

There are more important things that they are concerned about, who can get those things done and how that someone will do it. THAT is how they will decide who to vote for in 2024.
But the country also has to function in between elections.
 
Back
Top Bottom