Biden lied when denied he ever advocated cutting Social Security/Medicare/veterans

[Craig234]

I guess he thought it would be too damaging to his campaign to admit the truth, counting on it being less damaging for it to come out after the debate, which is dubious.

Joe Biden Has Advocated Cutting Social Security for 40 Years

 

[Integrityrespec]

I guess he thought it would be too damaging to his campaign to admit the truth, counting on it being less damaging for it to come out after the debate, which is dubious.

Joe Biden Has Advocated Cutting Social Security for 40 Years

So you are surprised Joe lies? Get ready because you will see that commercial ad all over the networks when he faces Trump. As I have always said, Democrats have no positions they hold dear in the face of a campaign. Lying is just how you do it.

 

[Craig234]

So you are surprised Joe lies? Get ready because you will see that commercial ad all over the networks when he faces Trump. As I have always said, Democrats have no positions they hold dear in the face of a campaign. Lying is just how you do it.

No one who supports trump can say a word about lies.

 

[Praxas]

I guess he thought it would be too damaging to his campaign to admit the truth, counting on it being less damaging for it to come out after the debate, which is dubious.

Joe Biden Has Advocated Cutting Social Security for 40 Years

Again, who do you think would cut social security more, Trump admin or Biden admin? So does that mean if Biden is nominated you will throw your vote away to allow 4 more years of trump stacking the federal courts with unqualified people, making a mockery of our laws, Embracing anti science nonsense, setting back the LGBTQ movement by decades and nominating two more conservative scotus members to replace two left leaning ones?

I will support whomever the dem nominee is, Bernie or Biden, to not allow trump to do that. Are you telling me you want Trump to be able to do this? If so, you are not a progressive by any means. Whomever the dem nominee is needs to be supported if you dislike trumps and Moscow mitchs actions.

 

[Slavister]

I guess he thought it would be too damaging to his campaign to admit the truth, counting on it being less damaging for it to come out after the debate, which is dubious.

Joe Biden Has Advocated Cutting Social Security for 40 Years

Can you quote the exact lie?

As I understand it, Biden had voted to freeze increases for a year or other such measures. So, no cuts to nominal amounts. But yes, I understand how he was ready to consider less-than-COLA-increases at various points or maybe even increase eligibility age to help with survival of this popular program.

I personally find it encouraging to see someone who has at least some history of seemingly(?) caring about national debt or sustainability of such programs.

 

[Craig234]

Can you quote the exact lie?

Yes. Repeatedly in the debate tonight, Bernie asked him if he had ever advocated cuts to Social Security and other programs on the Senate floor. Biden said no every time.

 

[mike2810]

I guess he thought it would be too damaging to his campaign to admit the truth, counting on it being less damaging for it to come out after the debate, which is dubious.

Joe Biden Has Advocated Cutting Social Security for 40 Years

I wonder if the author of your linked article knows the difference between a "freeze" and a "cut". My impression is the answer is no they do not. Since BS approved an add with Biden's quote, I can conclude Sanders does not understand the differences either.

 

[Slavister]

Yes. Repeatedly in the debate tonight, Bernie asked him if he had ever advocated cuts to Social Security and other programs on the Senate floor. Biden said no every time.

"Cuts" normally means cuts in nominal amounts, which I think Biden never advocated. Lesser increases or even freezing amount for a year does not mean "cuts" by most.

For example, when people get 1% raise in their work pay, they don't normally talk about getting a 1.5% cut, because inflation is 2.5% that year. Maybe they should, but they never do... At most, people talk about a "small increase". Usually they are happy to get an increase at all.

 

[Integrityrespec]

No one who supports trump can say a word about lies.

LOL... so this is the you did it first defense. How far back to we do with that, Hillary? Well if she was talking she was lying.

 

[iguanaman]

I guess he thought it would be too damaging to his campaign to admit the truth, counting on it being less damaging for it to come out after the debate, which is dubious.

Joe Biden Has Advocated Cutting Social Security for 40 Years

Funny but with in 3 years of this "sacrilege" Bill Clinton balanced the budget and ran surpluses for 4 years and there were no cuts to SS. Joe was calling the Republicans bluff that's all. He was being a budget hawk and knew nothing like what he proposed would fly.

 

[iguanaman]

LOL... so this is the you did it first defense. How far back to we do with that, Hillary? Well if she was talking she was lying.

LOL She is a regular George Washington compared to Trump.....everybody is.

 

[Craig234]

LOL... so this is the you did it first defense. How far back to we do with that, Hillary? Well if she was talking she was lying.

It's not a "first" thing. Over 15,000 lies. Hillary probably didn't lie 1% as much, though it was too much.

 

[Craig234]

"Cuts" normally means cuts in nominal amounts, which I think Biden never advocated. Lesser increases or even freezing amount for a year does not mean "cuts" by most.

For example, when people get 1% raise in their work pay, they don't normally talk about getting a 1.5% cut, because inflation is 2.5% that year. Maybe they should, but they never do... At most, people talk about a "small increase". Usually they are happy to get an increase at all.

No, "cuts" means reducing the current rate of increase as well. Freeze the spending, inflation and cost of living go up, it's a cut. That's an old Republican technique to say it's not a cut.

I'd have to see just what Joe said, but he called for those cuts.

 

[Slavister]

No, "cuts" means reducing the current rate of increase as well. Freeze the spending, inflation and cost of living go up, it's a cut. That's an old Republican technique to say it's not a cut.

I'd have to see just what Joe said, but he called for those cuts.

Sorry, but when retirees get 1% increase, they don't call it a cut because inflation was higher. You'd have a point if Bernie said "cuts to Social Security COLA adjustments" or "cuts to Social Security annual increases". Just saying "cuts to social security" is as much of a confusing language as Joe's statements that he never argued for [nominal] cuts.

So, did Bernie say anything to be clear in this regard? If so, Joe denying it would be a lie. Otherwise, they were both equally vague in my opinion.

 

[Craig234]

Sorry, but when retirees get 1% increase, they don't call it a cut because inflation was higher.

That's not what I said. I said, "reducing the current rate of increase". If the law says increase by X, and you say let's change the law to a lower increase than X, that's a cut.

So, did Bernie say anything to be clear in this regard? If so, Joe denying it would be a lie. Otherwise, they were both equally vague in my opinion.

Joe said he never advocated cuts, as I said, and I already linked reporting that he did. You can read it or not, but I'm not going to keep repeating.

 

[Slavister]

That's not what I said. I said, "reducing the current rate of increase". If the law says increase by X, and you say let's change the law to a lower increase than X, that's a cut.

That's what you said, but I am asking whether that's what Bernie said. If Bernie limited his attack to "cutting social security", then he left it as vague and misleading and Biden's response was correct and warranted. If Bernie was clear and explicit that he was talking about cutting INCREASES to social security, then your OP argument has a point.

 

[Craig234]

That's what you said, but I am asking whether that's what Bernie said. If Bernie limited his attack to "cutting social security", then he left it as vague and misleading and Biden's response was correct and warranted. If Bernie was clear and explicit that he was talking about cutting INCREASES to social security, then your OP argument has a point.

Bernie said cuts. And while I don't think he was quite fair in telling the fuller story of Biden's history on the issue, he's not wrong that it's happened. Here's Politifact:

In 2012, Biden promised voters in Virginia: "I guarantee you, flat guarantee you: There will be no changes in Social Security. I flat guarantee you."

But during the Obama years, Biden did have a hand in a proposal that would have reduced Social Security benefits over time. It involved a different way of calculating inflation, using something called chained CPI. According to a recent report from the Urban Institute, a Washington think tank, such a change today would reduce the mean Social Security benefit by about 4.5% over a span of 45 years.

In deficit reduction negotiations with a Republican-controlled Congress, the Obama White House said it was ready to accept a shift to the chained CPI as part of a larger budget deal.

Opposition from Democratic lawmakers killed the proposal in 2011 and 2014, and it never went forward.

 

[JoeTheEconomist]

I guess he thought it would be too damaging to his campaign to admit the truth, counting on it being less damaging for it to come out after the debate, which is dubious.

Joe Biden Has Advocated Cutting Social Security for 40 Years

Here is Krugman: “Not to sugarcoat it: The Sanders campaign has flat-out lied (PolitiFact | Did Biden laud a Paul Ryan proposal to cut Social Security as Bernie Sanders’ campaign said?) about things Biden said in 2018 about Social Security, and it has refused to admit the falsehood. This is bad; it is, indeed, almost Trumpian. The last thing we need is another president who demonizes and lies about anyone who disagrees with him, and can’t admit ever being wrong.“

It is a terrible statement about Social Security, that is it has been reduced to garden-variety pulp politics. It hasn't drawn a single question in 11 debates, while two 3 year-olds bicker about statements that are decades old. Disgraceful.

The Intercept isn't a credible source.

Try :

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...rs-versus-biden-social-security-guide-claims/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...rs-versus-biden-social-security-guide-claims/)

PolitiFact - Did Biden laud a Paul Ryan proposal to cut Social Security as Bernie Sanders’ campaign said? (PolitiFact | Did Biden laud a Paul Ryan proposal to cut Social Security as Bernie Sanders’ campaign said?)

Sanders Misleads on Social Security (https://www.factcheck.org/2015/10/sanders-misleads-on-social-security/)

and the best

Opinion | Biden, Sanders, Social Security and Smears (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/20/opinion/biden-sanders-social-security.html)

 

[JoeTheEconomist]

Bernie said cuts. And while I don't think he was quite fair in telling the fuller story of Biden's history on the issue, he's not wrong that it's happened. Here's Politifact:

His campaign staff edited the video of Biden's support to make it appear that Biden agreed with Paul Ryan. Social Security should be a serious program. It is terrible that it hasn't drawn a single question in 11 Democratic Presidential Debates. Mind you none of the references in the last debate have to do with the actual program. It is about politics. FDR feared these people "damn politicians", putting their election over the needs of the elderly.

 

[humbolt]

No one who supports trump can say a word about lies.

I can. Just did, if fact. Six words. No, wait! Eight words. 10, actually. Well, 11, because numbers don't count. 18, now. 19....

 

[Craig234]

Here is Krugman: “Not to sugarcoat it: The Sanders campaign has flat-out lied (PolitiFact | Did Biden laud a Paul Ryan proposal to cut Social Security as Bernie Sanders’ campaign said?) about things Biden said in 2018 about Social Security, and it has refused to admit the falsehood. This is bad; it is, indeed, almost Trumpian. The last thing we need is another president who demonizes and lies about anyone who disagrees with him, and can’t admit ever being wrong.“

It is a terrible statement about Social Security, that is it has been reduced to garden-variety pulp politics. It hasn't drawn a single question in 11 debates, while two 3 year-olds bicker about statements that are decades old. Disgraceful.

The Intercept isn't a credible source.

Try :

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...rs-versus-biden-social-security-guide-claims/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...rs-versus-biden-social-security-guide-claims/)

PolitiFact - Did Biden laud a Paul Ryan proposal to cut Social Security as Bernie Sanders’ campaign said? (PolitiFact | Did Biden laud a Paul Ryan proposal to cut Social Security as Bernie Sanders’ campaign said?)

Sanders Misleads on Social Security (Sanders Misleads on Social Security - FactCheck.org)

and the best

Opinion | Biden, Sanders, Social Security and Smears (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/20/opinion/biden-sanders-social-security.html)

1. A Sanders aide sent out an excerpt of the video that misrepresents Biden's criticism of Medicare cuts as supporting them. That is a type of lie. Bernie needs to take the appropriate action.

2. The case Bernie has made is basically correct. He lists a number of times, as your own links show, that Biden has supported cuts. He doesn't give the whole picture, including times Biden has had other positions; he doesn't have to as long as he doesn't deny them falsely. It's like when Bernie criticizes Biden for supporting the Iraq war (which Biden isn't honest about) and doesn't mention Biden now saying that was wrong.

3. The first link you posted is a lot of excuses for Biden. Biden wasn't the only one who had the position. Biden's Medicare cuts were part of cuts to everything. Biden's advocacy for cuts were for smaller cuts than a Republican opponent. Lots of excuses, none of which changes Bernie's claims.

4. One example is when Biden joined with two Republicans and the notoriously conservative Democrat Max Baucus (same guy who screwed up the ACA). Another example Bernie is right on is when Biden agreed to the reductions as part of a Republican-desired balanced budget amendment that only ten Democrats supported and 35 opposed. Biden has a long history of supporting Republican positions in contrast to Bernie.

So, there is one problem from an aide Bernie needs to address; the rest of the issue, the claims Bernie has made, seem like a correct selective list of positions Biden has taken. Bernie is correctly pointing out that his history is more supportive of these programs, and Biden has repeatedly been less supportive.

 

[Slavister]

Bernie said cuts. And while I don't think he was quite fair in telling the fuller story of Biden's history on the issue, he's not wrong that it's happened. Here's Politifact:

Sorry, I can't get too excited about it. I get what you are saying but at the end of the day, Bernie misrepresented it by saying just "cuts". Sounds like Biden changed his tune on this issue in the past, but not nearly to the degree that Bernie would have you believe. Slower-than-CPI increases in order to keep the program solvent is a reasonable compromise IMO and the fact that Biden was willing to change his position to go there does NOT bother me. I understand your position as well and why it would bother other people more. No problem. However, I think Bernie is trying to make more out of it than there is there, and misleading on this issue is NOT a good position for Bernie to be in. He could have been accurate and still made his point effectively, but he did not.

eace

 

[mike2810]

No, "cuts" means reducing the current rate of increase as well. Freeze the spending, inflation and cost of living go up, it's a cut. That's an old Republican technique to say it's not a cut.

I'd have to see just what Joe said, but he called for those cuts.

Interesting how you spin things. Please provide a link that backs up your statement of what a "cut" means.

Employee A talks to his boss. Hey boss, why did you cut my pay. Boss, what do you mean it is the same as last year. Where is the cut?

Your misinformation is noted. :mrgreen: