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Biden Increased the Deficit, Not Reduced It

jonny5

jonny5

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2016 -584.7
2017 -665.4
2018 -779.1
2019 -983.6
2020 -3,132.4
2021 -2,775.3
2022 -1.4T

So, compared to prepandemic levels, the deficit is was about 500bn higher. CBOs prediction for 2023 is 1.5 trillion deficit and 2.1 trillion by 2032. And this is without passing the full BBB spending bill or Bidens latest budget which further would have increased it per their own tables.

And this is not actually Bidens fault. Sure, he signed over 5 trillion in NEW spending since he took office, which was passed without almost any Republicans in congress, but most spending is mandatory. Healthcare accounts for almost the entire deficit. Dems and Reps have both been rubber stamping continuing spending resolution bills and massive omnibus bills which increase regular spending, and doing nothing about mandatory spending which accounts for almost all of the budget.

Biden will keep saying historic deficit reduction, but this is 1666273203402.png
 
jonny5 said:
2016 -584.7
2017 -665.4
2018 -779.1
2019 -983.6
2020 -3,132.4
2021 -2,775.3
2022 -1.4T

So, compared to prepandemic levels, the deficit is was about 500bn higher. CBOs prediction for 2023 is 1.5 trillion deficit and 2.1 trillion by 2032. And this is without passing the full BBB spending bill or Bidens latest budget which further would have increased it per their own tables.

And this is not actually Bidens fault. Sure, he signed over 5 trillion in NEW spending since he took office, which was passed without almost any Republicans in congress, but most spending is mandatory. Healthcare accounts for almost the entire deficit. Dems and Reps have both been rubber stamping continuing spending resolution bills and massive omnibus bills which increase regular spending, and doing nothing about mandatory spending which accounts for almost all of the budget.

Biden will keep saying historic deficit reduction, but this is View attachment 67418919
Click to expand...

So what was Trump's excuse?

www.thedailybeast.com

Trump Added More to the National Debt Than Obama and Bush

The fiscally irresponsible 45th president somehow bloated deficits more in four years than his predecessors did in eight.
www.thedailybeast.com
 
I was up all night again, tossing and turning, absolutely worried SICK about the "deficit"...which I'm not sure if you're talking about the deficit or the national debt. I doubt you know either LMAO.
But anyway....I am worried sick about the deficit and the debt. Cant sleep a wink.

This is me worrying:

sound-of-music.jpg
 
jonny5 said:
2016 -584.7
2017 -665.4
2018 -779.1
2019 -983.6
2020 -3,132.4
2021 -2,775.3
2022 -1.4T

So, compared to prepandemic levels, the deficit is was about 500bn higher. CBOs prediction for 2023 is 1.5 trillion deficit and 2.1 trillion by 2032. And this is without passing the full BBB spending bill or Bidens latest budget which further would have increased it per their own tables.

And this is not actually Bidens fault. Sure, he signed over 5 trillion in NEW spending since he took office, which was passed without almost any Republicans in congress, but most spending is mandatory. Healthcare accounts for almost the entire deficit. Dems and Reps have both been rubber stamping continuing spending resolution bills and massive omnibus bills which increase regular spending, and doing nothing about mandatory spending which accounts for almost all of the budget.

Biden will keep saying historic deficit reduction, but this is View attachment 67418919
Click to expand...

2020 -3,132.4
2021 -2,775.3

Biden reduced the deficit. Literally.

You're struggling with the idea of systemic deficit, and you're on the right track distinguishing mandatory spending from discretionary spending.

But you're not looking realistically at the future: the next time Republicans get elected they won't have the tax cut lever to pull (firstly because it never worked that well, secondly because only taxes on the poor remain to be cut) so to stimulate the economy and make some pretense of trying for 3-4% GDP growth instead of 2-3%, they will spend. I don't even care what populist argument they will make for it, but they will likely concentrate on Defense and subsidies for high tech.

Deficit spending is one thing the two parties agree on. Pretending Democrats are qualitatively worse, overlooks that Republicans do lasting damage to revenues, while Democrats only try to do lasting damage to spending.

Trumpists simply don't care. They like tax cuts, they like spending increases, they don't give a damn about deficit. If they ever control the Senate they will abolish the filibuster, and free themselves from the Byrd Rule so they can commission Space Battleships or whatever. I can't even exaggerate on how profligate a Trump Presidency with today's "Republican" party in control of Congress would be. Inconvenient rules like "the validity of the public debt of the United States ... shall not be questioned" will be slight impediment to them buying more votes. And their Supreme Court might just let them get away with it.
 
WillyPete said:
Isn't a couple trillion of it for the infrastructure bill?

To some extent, it's just finally paying for things we've been putting off for decades.
Click to expand...

And which the Republicans have been promising to spend on ... soon ... when there isn't some reason not to ... not just yet.

Republicans don't want Biden to get credit for anything, even a bipartisan bill. What the educated people would give them credit for, doesn't matter. They just assume those are Democrat voters already.

Actually, in economic recovery is the BEST time to invest in infrastructure. For one thing, it encourages private sector investment. For another, it's a direct stimulus. Though yes it does look bad if you take a short term view of the deficit: 2020 cut government revenues implicitly (forced unemployment, business downturn) and explicitly (many companies were allowed to delay paying taxes). At the same time there was a burst of individual and business welfare spending. This began under Trump and tailed off under Biden, but as Truman said "the buck stops here." For better or worse, Presidents get the blame for what happened on their watch.

The right time for infrastructure spending to start, would have been February 2021. Bearing in mind that there is always a planning and funding delay.

Another thing. Democrats could have had a 4 year plan for $10 minimum wage (or even $11 or $12) but they wouldn't compromise with Manchin on that. It's impossible now, with inflation. The most disempowered workers in the country have no protection against inflation, and that's not Manchin's fault. It's the Democrats who couldn't see that indexation of the minimum wage is worth a few dollars off the headline rate.
 
Ug make hammer said:
2020 -3,132.4
2021 -2,775.3

Biden reduced the deficit. Literally.

You're struggling with the idea of systemic deficit, and you're on the right track distinguishing mandatory spending from discretionary spending.

But you're not looking realistically at the future: the next time Republicans get elected they won't have the tax cut lever to pull (firstly because it never worked that well, secondly because only taxes on the poor remain to be cut) so to stimulate the economy and make some pretense of trying for 3-4% GDP growth instead of 2-3%, they will spend. I don't even care what populist argument they will make for it, but they will likely concentrate on Defense and subsidies for high tech.

Deficit spending is one thing the two parties agree on. Pretending Democrats are qualitatively worse, overlooks that Republicans do lasting damage to revenues, while Democrats only try to do lasting damage to spending.

Trumpists simply don't care. They like tax cuts, they like spending increases, they don't give a damn about deficit. If they ever control the Senate they will abolish the filibuster, and free themselves from the Byrd Rule so they can commission Space Battleships or whatever. I can't even exaggerate on how profligate a Trump Presidency with today's "Republican" party in control of Congress would be. Inconvenient rules like "the validity of the public debt of the United States ... shall not be questioned" will be slight impediment to them buying more votes. And their Supreme Court might just let them get away with it.
Click to expand...

It’s very difficult to blame congress critters for adopting (and keeping) federal “budget” policy which gets them re-elected at a rate of over 90%. That level of (apparent) electorate approval is not conducive to getting congress critters to either cut federal spending or raise federal taxation.
 
WillyPete said:
Isn't a couple trillion of it for the infrastructure bill?

To some extent, it's just finally paying for things we've been putting off for decades.
Click to expand...

How so? We've spent many trillions on 'infrastructure' for decades. You think this bill will finally fix every bridge and road?
 
jonny5 said:
How so? We've spent many trillions on 'infrastructure' for decades. You think this bill will finally fix every bridge and road?
Click to expand...

A couple trillion of the spending being griped about here was for the infrastructure bill that Trump promised and Oldest Joe delivered.

It obviously can't fix everything, the GOP fought it so hard we're lucky we got anything!

Would that be preferable to you?
 
Channe79 said:
Don't deflect.
Accept that Biden has failed the country.
Trump isn't president anymore.
You're desperate and it shows.
Click to expand...
The actions and policies of previous presidents affects the one in office, good and/or bad. Affecting the current president’s ability to govern.

This means that the previous president is still relevant.

I agree that we should still judge a current president on what they do, but we can’t discount what happened before.

You don’t want to accept that Trump failed the country. So you try a very lame and dismissive argument that since Trump isn’t president anymore then it doesn’t matter.

Sorry. That won’t work. It’s kind of hypocritical as well: you guys still go after Obama…
 
WillyPete said:
A couple trillion of the spending being griped about here was for the infrastructure bill that Trump promised and Oldest Joe delivered.

It obviously can't fix everything, the GOP fought it so hard we're lucky we got anything!

Would that be preferable to you?
Click to expand...

Getting nothing? Yes. We spend too much, and too much on 'infrastructure'. And Biden delivered even higher deficits with his.
 
jonny5 said:
Getting nothing? Yes. We spend too much, and too much on 'infrastructure'. And Biden delivered even higher deficits with his.
Click to expand...

So is our infrastructure in tip top shape, or is it way more expensive to maintain than expected?

I doubt either of us are economists, but my understanding is that all government spending is stimulus, and I'll take any stimulus that doesn't go to the MIC or Big Pharma and call it a win.

If you're talking about pork, talk about that. It's not a new thing.
 
WillyPete said:
So is our infrastructure in tip top shape, or is it way more expensive to maintain than expected?

I doubt either of us are economists, but my understanding is that all government spending is stimulus, and I'll take any stimulus that doesn't go to the MIC or Big Pharma and call it a win.

If you're talking about pork, talk about that. It's not a new thing.
Click to expand...

I am an economist, and my understanding is that govt stimulus is less stimulative than private spending. Im also a philosopher and my understanding is that the purpose of govt is to protect life and liberty, not to stimulate the economy, and especially not through moral politics.

However, infrastructure spending, while a big part of Bidens deficit increase due to the one bill, is a small part of the spending problem. Healthcare is far worse. Which he also contributed to. But mostly which he has just done nothing about, and nor has congress of any party.
 
jonny5 said:
I am an economist, and my understanding is that govt stimulus is less stimulative than private spending. Im also a philosopher and my understanding is that the purpose of govt is to protect life and liberty, not to stimulate the economy, and especially not through moral politics.

However, infrastructure spending, while a big part of Bidens deficit increase due to the one bill, is a small part of the spending problem. Healthcare is far worse. Which he also contributed to. But mostly which he has just done nothing about, and nor has congress of any party.
Click to expand...

We were talking infrastructure, and specifically whether you feel like we've fixed it already since you claim we spend too much on it.

You appear to be saying it was a mistake for the government to build any infrastructure in the first place "for philosophical reasons."
 
Last edited:
WillyPete said:
We were talking infrastructure, and specifically whether you feel like we've fixed it already since you claim we spend too much on it.

You appear to be saying it was a mistake for the government to build any infrastructure in the first place "for philosophical reasons."
Click to expand...

You were talking about infrastructure, and I answered, but the topic is the deficit, so Im steering back to it. Infrastructure is the least of our problems, though indeed his bill certainly is contributing to the increase. We do spend too much on it, and its not a matter of it needing to be fixed or not. And I didnt say ANY infrastrcture. If its not listed in the powers, and its not neccesary for those powers, its a mistake.

But the REAL problem is the ongoing mandatory spending, which is mainly social spending. Biden ALSO increased that, but most of it is just runaway.
 
Channe79 said:
Don't deflect.
Accept that Biden has failed the country.
Trump isn't president anymore.
You're desperate and it shows.
Click to expand...

Haha- says the guy trying to deflect from the fact that they were cheering a criminal insurrectionist to the White House because we still have some problems.
 
The US deficit has been decreasing since. FY 2020
FY 2020 $3.13T
FY 2021 $2.77T
FY 2022 $1.38T
fiscaldata.treasury.gov

Fiscal Data Explains the National Deficit

Check out @FiscalService Fiscal Data’s new national deficit page! #NationalDeficit
fiscaldata.treasury.gov fiscaldata.treasury.gov

While the President signs spending Bills it is Congress who writes and passes the Bills for the President signature or veto. Don't overlook the role of Congress in the deficit.

ps. Even under Trump the deficit increased each year.
 
jonny5 said:
Getting nothing? Yes. We spend too much, and too much on 'infrastructure'. And Biden delivered even higher deficits with his.
Click to expand...
Higher than what? It's lower than it was.
 
WillyPete said:
Isn't a couple trillion of it for the infrastructure bill?

To some extent, it's just finally paying for things we've been putting off for decades.
Click to expand...

I can't remember how many dollars are in that law, but more billions are in health care as well. President Biden adding to the deficit will take me out of the doughnut hole next year! (y)
 
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