Biden has handled the Ukraine horror magnificently but, at the end of the day, absent boots on the ground, there's nothing to be done

[Shrink726]

And that, my friends, is the ultimate question we're eventually going to have to come to grips with. Do we let the implicit, or explicit, threat of nuclear weapons immobilize us to the point that a monster like Putin can do pretty much anything he wants?

The parallels to Hitler's expansion in Europe circa 1938 are both unavoidable and accurate.

We as a nation [and a world] are going to have to decide if allowing a madman to have his way due exclusively to nuclear threats is a better or worse outcome than the threat of WW3.

The rest of this is all just noise. This is the only salient question facing this nation and the world.

 

[noonereal]

Biden has handled the Ukraine horror magnificently but, at the end of the day, absent boots on the ground, there's nothing to be done​

This is exactly right. In the end, we are all at the mercy of Putin.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

And that, my friends, is the ultimate question we're eventually going to have to come to grips with. Do we let the implicit, or explicit, threat of nuclear weapons immobilize us to the point that a monster like Putin can do pretty much anything he wants?

To me, nukes have nothing to do with it. The fact that Ukraine isnt part of the USA has EVERYTHING to do with it.

The parallels to Hitler's expansion in Europe circa 1938 are both unavoidable and accurate.

*chuckle* No they aren't, not remotely.

We as a nation [and a world] are going to have to decide if allowing a madman to have his way due exclusively to nuclear threats is a better or worse outcome than the threat of WW3.

At this time: it would be better. Again: I dont consider Ukraine to be my business. I cant even see it from my house, or from the bar on the corner. Right now my life is very pleasant. WW3 is bound to make it unpleasant. So: WW3 would be far worse than the current situation IMO.

The rest of this is all just noise

This is noise too. This post. Your post is just noise.

This is the only salient question facing this nation and the world.

OK. Easy answer: WW3 would definitely be worse than what's going on in Ukraine. By far. No comparison.

Have a great day....and as ALWAYS:

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

This is exactly right. In the end, we are all at the mercy of Putin.

LOL. Huh? How do you figure?

 

[Shrink726]

To me, nukes have nothing to do with it. The fact that Ukraine isnt part of the USA has EVERYTHING to do with it.


*chuckle* No they aren't, not remotely.


At this time: it would be better. Again: I dont consider Ukraine to be my business. I cant even see it from my house, or from the bar on the corner. Right now my life is very pleasant. WW3 is bound to make it unpleasant. So: WW3 would be far worse than the current situation IMO.


This is noise too. This post. Your post is just noise.


OK. Easy answer: WW3 would definitely be worse than what's going on in Ukraine. By far. No comparison.

Have a great day....and as ALWAYS:

View attachment 67378069

Holy crap...could you be more myopic...or wrong?
I certainly don't think so.

 

[noonereal]

LOL. Huh? How do you figure?

Because we have no control, zero, if he decides to use nukes and where.

Not sure what your LOL is about?????

 

[independentusa]

LOL. Huh? How do you figure?

It isn't just Ukraine thgt is at stake. Putin want to reunite all of the same countries that here were in the USSR. SInce Ukraine was not part of NATO, we put no boots on the ground, but if he goes for a NATO state, there will be a war and the worry is when Putin is trapped, will he use his nukes? That is why we are all at his "mercy".

 

[noonereal]

To me, nukes have nothing to do with it. The fact that Ukraine isnt part of the USA has EVERYTHING to do with it.

Mind-blowing ignorant comment.

Shocking.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

Because we have no control, zero, if he decides to use nukes and where.

OK. Well, thats the same exact scenario we've had for decades and decades.

Dont worry, when the proverbial shit hits the fan, the smart money says it will be caused by everyones favorite apartheid phony "democracy" in the Mid East.

You can stop thinking about Putin.

 

[j brown's body]

I gotta say, the Russian military has not distinguished itself so far, and the longer this goes on...

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

Mind-blowing ignorant comment.

Shocking.

very apt description of post #8 IMO.

Shockingly ignorant post IMO.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

It isn't just Ukraine thgt is at stake. Putin want to reunite all of the same countries that here were in the USSR. SInce Ukraine was not part of NATO, we put no boots on the ground, but if he goes for a NATO state, there will be a war and the worry is when Putin is trapped, will he use his nukes? That is why we are all at his "mercy".

Unnecessary hand wringing noted*

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

Holy crap...could you be more myopic...or wrong?
I certainly don't think so.

You aren't laying a very convincing case for your OP thus far.

I just dont see a cause for great concern.

 

[Shrink726]

You aren't laying a very convincing case for your OP thus far.

I just dont see a cause for great concern.

You don't see the very real risk of nuclear war as "cause for great concern?"

Noted.

Nowhere as serious as your big mac being undercooked.

You should be a national security advisor.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

You don't see the very real risk of nuclear war as "cause for great concern?"

We aren't at any greater risk of nuclear war right now than we've been for the last 50 years and more.

What good does it do you to worry about that? The missiles could literally start flying any given day, thats been true my entire lifetime.

Nowhere as serious as your big mac being undercooked

I dont eat a lot of those, but I saw a Mickey Dees the other day and thought "damn a Big Mac would be good" for some reason. Didnt get one....but I'm going to before long. Not today but soon.

You should be a national security advisor.

Yes I should, because both President Biden and I understand that it isnt necessary to get all excited about this. Theres no point in it at all.

There are sanctions and so forth, the pinch will be felt and while Putin may or may not drag this on into something that lasts for awhile, he knows that he cant attack a NATO nation without wide scale war breaking out. He has nothing to gain by doing that. I dont know why he's doing this, maybe he does want a buffer part of Ukraine.
At any rate, from the reports I've seen it doesnt look like its going all that great for Russia. I dont mean to trivialize the scene on the ground there, people are dying, but you have to just let this develop and see what is going to happen over months, not hours and days.

And if there is a larger aggression shown by attacking NATO, then go ahead and prepare for major shit then, but I still won't worry about it. No reason to.

 

[Deuce]

We aren't at any greater risk of nuclear war right now than we've been for the last 50 years and more.

Armchair general up in here.

You're wrong.

 

[RetiredUSN]

And that, my friends, is the ultimate question we're eventually going to have to come to grips with. Do we let the implicit, or explicit, threat of nuclear weapons immobilize us to the point that a monster like Putin can do pretty much anything he wants?

The parallels to Hitler's expansion in Europe circa 1938 are both unavoidable and accurate.

We as a nation [and a world] are going to have to decide if allowing a madman to have his way due exclusively to nuclear threats is a better or worse outcome than the threat of WW3.

The rest of this is all just noise. This is the only salient question facing this nation and the world.

If you lower the bar far enough, the average bag lady can look good.

 

[Craig234]

We need to understand, Kyiv is likely to be taken by Putin

We've had a lot of feel-good surprises, the huge heroism of Ukraine's resistance, Russian blunders and lack of success, the world's political unity against Putin - but unfortunately, none of it changes the likelihood that Putin can defeat Kyiv. We're likely to see the news become just more and...

debatepolitics.com

 

[Schism]

The only thing the US military has left behind in every conflict since WW2 is misery, smoldering ruins, dead civilians, and lost US weapons.

Also left behind were US allies, warlords, criminals and thieves, and destroyed nations.

US hegemony and "democracy building" are the greatest threats to the world. We have too many problems at home that need solving.

We're not very good at winning wars or building democracies.

 

[ataraxia]

We aren't at any greater risk of nuclear war right now than we've been for the last 50 years and more.

What good does it do you to worry about that? The missiles could literally start flying any given day, thats been true my entire lifetime.


I dont eat a lot of those, but I saw a Mickey Dees the other day and thought "damn a Big Mac would be good" for some reason. Didnt get one....but I'm going to before long. Not today but soon.



Yes I should, because both President Biden and I understand that it isnt necessary to get all excited about this. Theres no point in it at all.

There are sanctions and so forth, the pinch will be felt and while Putin may or may not drag this on into something that lasts for awhile, he knows that he cant attack a NATO nation without wide scale war breaking out. He has nothing to gain by doing that. I dont know why he's doing this, maybe he does want a buffer part of Ukraine.
At any rate, from the reports I've seen it doesnt look like its going all that great for Russia. I dont mean to trivialize the scene on the ground there, people are dying, but you have to just let this develop and see what is going to happen over months, not hours and days.

And if there is a larger aggression shown by attacking NATO, then go ahead and prepare for major shit then, but I still won't worry about it. No reason to.

That’s assuming that Putin remains of sound mind and is making rational decisions. That’s not at all clear right now.

US intelligence agencies make understanding Vladimir Putin's state of mind a top priority

The US intelligence community has made evaluating Russian President Vladimir Putin's state of mind a top priority in recent days as it seeks to establish how that is affecting his handling of the rapidly escalating Ukraine crisis, according to two sources familiar with the effort.

amp.cnn.com

 

[BirdinHand]

• Ukraine is not a NATO country
• Putin is highly unlikely to invade a NATO country

At this juncture, provide support to Ukraine, sanctions, and try to de-escalate the situation. Potentially have some black ops teams somewhere strategizing how they can neutralize Putin.

Past that, not interested in escalating this situation to the point where the US becomes actively involved in a war. Or entices a madman to launch nuclear weapons.

 

[CaughtInThe]

What we're going to do to Russia in the Ukraine is what the USSR did to us in Vietnam.

Not exactly but damn close.

 

[multivita-man]

To me, nukes have nothing to do with it. The fact that Ukraine isnt part of the USA has EVERYTHING to do with it.


*chuckle* No they aren't, not remotely.


At this time: it would be better. Again: I dont consider Ukraine to be my business. I cant even see it from my house, or from the bar on the corner. Right now my life is very pleasant. WW3 is bound to make it unpleasant. So: WW3 would be far worse than the current situation IMO.


This is noise too. This post. Your post is just noise.


OK. Easy answer: WW3 would definitely be worse than what's going on in Ukraine. By far. No comparison.

Have a great day....and as ALWAYS:

View attachment 67378069

I couldn't disagree more: the lesson of 1938 is that when someone threatens to build an empire, you have to recognize that it starts somewhere - usually somewhere "unimportant" at first. It starts out with parts of Czechoslovakia before it ends up in with an invasion of Paris and bombing of London.

Just as Hitler tested the rest of Europe when he started taking bits of pieces of countries in Germany's "back yard", Putin is doing much the same now, and he's using the response to determine what he can get away with. Before long, he can start remaking the map to his liking, and taking precious resources and capital with it. And by the time we say "We can't just let him take over all of Eastern Europe," it's too late.

This is not to say that I wanted U.S. boots on the ground. Ukraine has always been complicated because it was never a part of NATO or the EU and had enough of its own problems that it's not always been clear who the good guys are - which is a problem that Putin created on purpose. Regardless, it's always been clear that Putin has low regard for the sovereignty of other countries. Even if we aren't looking for trouble with him, he seems pretty intent on finding problems with us and our allies. It's past time to confront him.

 

[multivita-man]

That’s assuming that Putin remains of sound mind and is making rational decisions. That’s not at all clear right now.

US intelligence agencies make understanding Vladimir Putin's state of mind a top priority

The US intelligence community has made evaluating Russian President Vladimir Putin's state of mind a top priority in recent days as it seeks to establish how that is affecting his handling of the rapidly escalating Ukraine crisis, according to two sources familiar with the effort.

amp.cnn.com

I am convinced that Putin was of a sound mind when he invaded Ukraine more than a week ago. He was probably myopic and unwisely ignoring competent counsel, but he was otherwise thinking in ways that are vintage Putin.

But I do worry about his mental state as the conflict progresses, particularly when it's clear that there are serious problems with the supply lines and morale. The convoy in Ukraine has stalled, and I don't think it's just because they're waiting for artillery. Numerous reports seem to indicate that there are serious supply problems. This could potentially end up being a humiliating failure for Putin, and when a sociopath like Putin gets embarrassed...that's when I worry. Putin's mental image of himself is that he's the king of the jungle. Such public humiliation would be unbearable. That's when I worry about an unhinged moment.

 

[Craig234]

What we're going to do to Russia in the Ukraine is what the USSR did to us in Vietnam.

We'd hope it doesn't take 10 years and millions of Ukrainians killed.