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Biden $2 trillion infrastructure jobs plan funded by corporate tax hike

The Baron

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MTAtech

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Corporations don't pay taxes. End-users do.
That's nonsense.
I've answered this before:

The reality is that a business always charges the most it can charge to maximize revenue and profits. Economist call this the peak of the price demand curve. If they raise prices too much, demand falls enough to reduce revenues and profits. If they lower prices, demand increases but total revenue falls because of lower pricing.

Let's say Apple charges nearly a thousand dollars for an iPhone, even though it costs less ~$200 to manufacture an iPhone. Demand dictates the price. Does anyone really think Apple would drop the price of iPhones if manufacturing costs were lower or they got a tax break? Of course not. They already have customers willing to pay nearly $1,000 for their product. If Apple's tax bill was lower, the savings would go to Apple and its shareholders, not consumers.

Moreover, taxes aren’t a factor a company uses to determine prices, since taxes are on profits and not a direct cost, that are calculated after the profits were made.

Likewise, taxes are not passed onto the consumer in the form of higher prices. As proof, General Electric hasn't paid federal income taxes in at least a decade. Are GE's prices to their customer's any less expensive compared to their competition that pays taxes? No.
David Cay Johnston explains :
Taxes are on profits, and profits are calculated at the end of a tax year by adding up all the revenue and subtracting all the costs. When a product or service is sold the company doesn't really know yet how much profit, if any, it will have at the end of the year, so it doesn't know what the tax will be, so how can it adjust prices? But if a company was able to just raise prices based on anticipation of profits, then the result would be that profits would be higher because of the higher price charged, which means taxes would be even higher, so the company should have raised prices even more, but that means the profit would be even higher, so they have to go back and charge more, but then ... I think you are starting to see how silly this idea of raising prices to cover taxes can get.
The reality is that a business always charges the most it can charge to maximize revenue and profits. Economist call this the peak of the price demand curve. If they raise prices too much, demand falls enough to reduce revenues and profits. If they lower prices, demand increases but total revenue falls because of lower pricing.

Let's say Apple charges nearly a thousand dollars for an iPhone, even though it costs less ~$200 to manufacture an iPhone. Demand dictates the price. Does anyone really think Apple would drop the price of iPhones if manufacturing costs were lower or they got a tax break? Of course not. They already have customers willing to pay nearly $1,000 for their product. If Apple's tax bill was lower, the savings would go to Apple and its shareholders, not consumers.
 

tacomancer

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This sounds like a good idea. I'm sure the anti-taxers will disagree. But, let's face it. 28% is more than fair.



What's interesting is that the tax hike made the bill even more popular. Attitudes seem to be changing in this country.
 

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Hamish Howl

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The people with a history of crashing the economy over the past 20 years are the GOP. You may want to look into that.

The last crash is on both Newt Gringrich's crowd for eliminating the Glass/Steagall Act, and Clinton for signing off on it.
 

nvflash

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President Biden knows he's just robbing Peter to pay Paul, he just doesn't care.

We have to be competitive in the global economy with other nations corporate tax rates, or our corporations will just uproot and move, and last time I checked 28% of nothing is still nothing.

Sure lots of corporations will still have US subsidiaries, and they will pay whatever their effective tax rate is, because the US is a wealthy market for their goods and services, but it will be us, their customers, they pass the costs of their effective tax rate on to.

If Biden were honest, he'd be pushing for a national sales tax or a VAT, at least that way he would not be hiding the fact that his increases is an effective tax on everyone, and cooperations would not be incentivized to move out of the US, harming our economy.

Look, there is nothing wrong with a national sales tax or a VAT to pay for infrastructure spending, because we all pay our part, and we all get use of the public works.

Just be honest with the American people about who is going to pay for it.
 

Lord Zerg

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This sounds like a good idea. I'm sure the anti-taxers will disagree. But, let's face it. 28% is more than fair.




Trump proposed a 2 trillion dollar infrastructure bill in 2016 and in 2020. At least Biden wants to try to pay for a little of it rather than piling it all on the national debt.
 

Yes_Minister

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Hmmmm! Were have I heard that idiocy before. The term “shovel ready jobs” keeps buzzing around in my head. Taxing prosperity is a sure way of building the economy. :rolleyes:

Yeah, if you tax Jeff Bezos, how will he put more money into his Cayman Island accounts?
 

Northern Light

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This sounds like a good idea. I'm sure the anti-taxers will disagree. But, let's face it. 28% is more than fair.




Excellent. It's about time that corporations paid their fair share. They use our national infrastructure to rake in obscene profits and then pay nothing about to the community. The tax hike will force them to reframe their fiduciary responsibility a little. Not that it's going to do a huge amount, since these companies are experts at using tax loopholes to avoid paying anything.

The idea that taxing the wealthiest corporations will increase end-user prices is a popular lie foisted by the right. The companies don't want to lose their strongly procured markets so they're not going to raise prices to punish consumers. They will just have to swallow the loss like anyone does.

More taxes on the super wealthy. It's time they pay up.
 

Bullseye

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Yeah, if you tax Jeff Bezos, how will he put more money into his Cayman Island accounts?
Sure. :rolleyes: But since most of his wealth is tied up in Amazon stock there probably isn’t much in the Islands.
 

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Sure. :rolleyes: But since most of his wealth is tied up in Amazon stock there probably isn’t much in the Islands.

His personal wealth is 188.5 billion USD, that is more than GDP of many nation states, yet he still has to treat his workers like robots?

And you know that for sure, that he doesn't put money in the Cayman ? How many rich people do that to avoid paying taxes by putting it in the Cayman Islands?



Republicans put no strings on these corporate tax cuts, what stops them from just putting the money into the Cayman Islands? Your whole trickle down argument doesn't work if they just put the money in the Cayman Islands.
 

Bullseye

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His personal wealth is 188.5 billion USD, that is more than GDP of many nation states, yet he still has to treat his workers like robots?
wealth includes stocks.
Yes_Minister said:
And you know that for sure, that he doesn't put money in the Cayman ? How many rich people do that to avoid paying taxes by putting it in the Cayman Islands?[qquote] probably fewer than you think. And financial transactions involving Amazon would be reported to IRS. And stock sale likewise.

Yes_Minister said:

Republicans put no strings on these corporate tax cuts, what stops them from just putting the money into the Cayman Islands? Your whole trickle down argument doesn't work if they just put the money in the Cayman Islands.
Got nothing to do with Republicans. Bezos is a Dem. Tax cuts? Are you serious? As I said financial transactions are tightly regulated and reporter to government.
 

upsideguy

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I posted this on another thread, but its appropriate for this discussion as well:

The foundation of the infrastructure bill is the idea that we roll back some the tax cuts, re-directing the money to fix America's decaying 20th century infrastructure, as that is what should have happened in the first place. In essence, the infrastructure bill is a do-over for much of the tax cuts we did in 2017. That said, I would be fine if the increase in corporate income tax was to 25%, likely with less aggressive expensing of capital items.

The nice thing about infrastructure is that its an investment. Investments need to be financed, but if they are good, they pay for themselves. I keenly remember the political arguments about Denver spending $2B to build a new airport in the early 90's.... there was lots of "we don't have the money", "what's wrong with Stapleton", etc. Denver was deep in a recession, that bordered on depression in the late 1980's. In this particular case, the naysayers were very wrong. The same thing with the baseball stadium (Coor's Field). It was built in the early 90's with an elected increase in sales tax. The stadium was paid off in 7 years, 13 years faster than expected (so they build another one, Mile High). Today, Denver is a model America city; one of the most vibrant in the country, largely because most of the voters (and taxpayers) of 1990 had vision, guts and a strong sense of community.

Good infrastructure spending is righteous government spending. Of course, the key is to make sure the projects are smart projects.

Corporations don't pay taxes. End-users do.

Ah, no. That is not the way it works, unless by "end-users" you include shareholders and employees. If you think it falls strictly on consumers you are mistaken. Perhaps you could pick up a economics class at the local community college. Pay attention on the day they discuss the incidence of tax.
 
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Bullseye

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Bezos has more wealth than many nation states and Amazon is a trillion dollar company, exactly how would raising their tax rates be bad thing? How much does Bezos pay now?

Sorry, I don’t support the “he’s got it, let’s tax it”. Pure jealousy and class warfare. Take it away from Bezos and give it to a host of Dem supporters. Sorry, no.
 

Yes_Minister

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Sorry, I don’t support the “he’s got it, let’s tax it”. Pure jealousy and class warfare. Take it away from Bezos and give it to a host of Dem supporters. Sorry, no.

So you are pro wealthy elite then eh? I thought conservatives claimed to be anti elitist, is that just a big lie?

The wealthy use their wealth to buy politicans and have them enact their will, Epstein uses his wealth to get away with horrible crimes, seems like their wealth is a threat to freedom and well being of others.
 

ttwtt78640

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Bezos has more wealth than many nation states and Amazon is a trillion dollar company, exactly how would raising their tax rates be bad thing? How much does Bezos pay now?


Hmm... if your “on the books” net income is zero (or less) then of course you would agree to any income tax rate (which only others would have to pay).
 

Bullseye

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So you are pro wealthy elite then eh? I thought conservatives claimed to be anti elitist, is that just a big lie?
Nope, just a big LW mantra.
Yes_Minister said:
The wealthy use their wealth to buy politicans and have them enact their will, Epstein uses his wealth to get away with horrible crimes, seems like their wealth is a threat to freedom and well being of others.
LOL, yeah, I’ve heard that rumor before.
 

Yes_Minister

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Hmm... if your “on the books” net income is zero (or less) then of course you would agree to any income tax rate (which only others would have to pay).

So Amazon actually pay something in taxes in the future? That's my argument.
 

Yes_Minister

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Nope, just a big LW mantra.


Then why are you defending big elites like Bezos? You guys talk elites in a negative way all the time and then you give Bezos a pass.

LOL, yeah, I’ve heard that rumor before.

Epstein getting a slap on the wrist for child trafficking in 2008 is a fact, not a rumor.
 

Yes_Minister

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Is that ”???“ (missing word) might, may or could?

That's what I get for typing on my phone, I meant say should Amazon actually pay taxes? Because they seem to pay nothing now.
 
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