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Beyond Ridiculous!

americanwoman

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I guess it depends what really happened. Some witnesses claim he was shooting kids at the bus stop and other people but the little angel claims he was in his own yard shooting targets. If he was in his yard nothing should happen but if he was shooting at kids at the bus stop he should be suspended. Hard to judge until the real facts are brought to light.
 

Aunt Spiker

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If they were on their personal property and shooting toward other children at the bus stop (not on the bus) I still don't quite see how that's the SCHOOL'S place to punish. Shouldn't that be dealt with between the kids and their parents?

Maybe - if they were shooting AT the kids on the bus THROUGH the windows would it make sense for the school to punish the student.

School should have defined lines and situations where they do NOT become involved. They are not the long arm of the law.
 

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I guess it depends what really happened. Some witnesses claim he was shooting kids at the bus stop and other people but the little angel claims he was in his own yard shooting targets. If he was in his yard nothing should happen but if he was shooting at kids at the bus stop he should be suspended. Hard to judge until the real facts are brought to light.

I agree the article seems a little ambiguous on exactly what happened. It may or may not be ridiculous
 

davidtaylorjr

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If they were on their personal property and shooting toward other children at the bus stop (not on the bus) I still don't quite see how that's the SCHOOL'S place to punish. Shouldn't that be dealt with between the kids and their parents?

Maybe - if they were shooting AT the kids on the bus THROUGH the windows would it make sense for the school to punish the student.

School should have defined lines and situations where they do NOT become involved. They are not the long arm of the law.

That was my thought on it. A lot of times a designated "bus stop" is nothing more than the kids front yard.
 

Black Dog

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Airsoft guns hurt and can put out an eye with little effort. If he was shooting kids at the bus stop then that is the schools jurisdiction. My brother got suspended fur building a fire to keep warm at the bus stop, lol. If he was not shooting kids at the bus stop it would be wrong.
 

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I guess it depends what really happened. Some witnesses claim he was shooting kids at the bus stop and other people but the little angel claims he was in his own yard shooting targets. If he was in his yard nothing should happen but if he was shooting at kids at the bus stop he should be suspended. Hard to judge until the real facts are brought to light.

+1 Polite golf clap
 

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Aunt Spiker

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That was my thought on it. A lot of times a designated "bus stop" is nothing more than the kids front yard.

Yeah - my kid's bus stop is at the corner of our yard. We have other children come around, too. :shrug: If something happens it's between the kids/parents - not the school/kids. :shrug:

Thanks, but I can punish my own dang kids when they do something wrong on my own dang lawn.
 

davidtaylorjr

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Yeah - my kid's bus stop is at the corner of our yard. We have other children come around, too. :shrug: If something happens it's between the kids/parents - not the school/kids. :shrug:

Thanks, but I can punish my own dang kids when they do something wrong on my own dang lawn.

Exactly. School should only get involved once that kid sets foot on the bus, period!

I've also heard of schools punishing kids for facebook posts, not the school's role.
 

CRUE CAB

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Sounds like a total over reaction by neighbors, school and police.
 

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Not to mention stupidity. Theres no fire, thus its not a firearm. So how can one be in posession of a firearm?
 

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If they were shooting at kids at the bus stop (and it sounds like they were), then the school gets involved. If a kid doesn't know that he shouldn't shoot BBs at other kids, he deserves a good swift kick in the ass. But, as I read it, mom's stepped up and defended him. "He was on his own property." That's the real problem here.

Do schools regulate bus stops? I could see them regulating the busses themselves. But Im pretty sure they dont have control over where someone stands to get on the bus. Thats the jurisdiction of the city.
 

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Do schools regulate bus stops? I could see them regulating the busses themselves. But Im pretty sure they dont have control over where someone stands to get on the bus. Thats the jurisdiction of the city.

So. Let's exaggerate to the absurd. Kid gets real gun and tries to shoot another kid at the bus stop. Do you think he should be suspended? Or business as usual while awaiting his criminal consequences?
 

jonny5

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So. Let's exaggerate to the absurd. Kid gets real gun and tries to shoot another kid at the bus stop. Do you think he should be suspended? Or business as usual while awaiting his criminal consequences?

I dont think the bus stop has anything to do with it. Thats my point.
 

CanadaJohn

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If they were on their personal property and shooting toward other children at the bus stop (not on the bus) I still don't quite see how that's the SCHOOL'S place to punish. Shouldn't that be dealt with between the kids and their parents?

Maybe - if they were shooting AT the kids on the bus THROUGH the windows would it make sense for the school to punish the student.

School should have defined lines and situations where they do NOT become involved. They are not the long arm of the law.

I would agree with this wholeheartedly. Schools seem to be taking this "acting in the place of parents" position they've awarded themselves a little too far. People don't want teachers, principals, superintendents, etc., acting as their child's parent - bad enough they think they are "parents" on school property - it's a whole other rotten kettle of fish when they try to expand that beyond the school's property when not on school time. I'll bet if someone tries to sue the school because of this, all the school staff will run for the hills claiming they're not responsible.

If the act was criminal, call the police. If the act was boys being boys, contact the parents to make them aware and let them take care of it.
 

CanadaJohn

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If they were shooting at kids at the bus stop (and it sounds like they were), then the school gets involved. If a kid doesn't know that he shouldn't shoot BBs at other kids, he deserves a good swift kick in the ass. But, as I read it, mom's stepped up and defended him. "He was on his own property." That's the real problem here.

You have a valid point, but in my view schools should not be suspending children for actions that are not related to their participation in school life and their responsibilities to the school. Punishing a child should always fit the crime - how is denying the child education a constructive punishment for actions unrelated to the school?
 

Harshaw

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This is the punishment for playing with a BB gun.

Two seventh-grade students in Virginia Beach, Va., were handed long-term suspensions Tuesday that will last until the end of the school year for playing with an airsoft gun in one of their front yards while waiting for the school bus.

How it would be worth more than a day, I have no idea.

Nonetheless, this is the absurd length to which the school is looking to take this:

WAVY-TV reports that 13-year-old Khalid Caraballo and Aidan Clark will face an additional hearing in January to determine if they will be expelled for "possession, handling and use of a firearm" because the guns were fired at two others playing in Caraballo's yard.

This is what they think their jurisdiction is:

The school's so-called "zero-tolerance" policy on guns extends to private property, according to the report.

This is insanity on stilts.
 

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You have a valid point, but in my view schools should not be suspending children for actions that are not related to their participation in school life and their responsibilities to the school. Punishing a child should always fit the crime - how is denying the child education a constructive punishment for actions unrelated to the school?

I guess where we're disagreeing is whether or not it had anything to do with school. I remember reading that it happened right by a school bus stop. Sans that, I would agree with you.
 

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You have a valid point, but in my view schools should not be suspending children for actions that are not related to their participation in school life and their responsibilities to the school. Punishing a child should always fit the crime - how is denying the child education a constructive punishment for actions unrelated to the school?

They SHOULD be suspending kids who might be dangerous to other students.
 

jonny5

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I guess where we're disagreeing is whether or not it had anything to do with school. I remember reading that it happened right by a school bus stop. Sans that, I would agree with you.

But again, thats got nothing to do with the school. Bus stops are not school property or a schools jursidiction. In most cases there is no signage marking it as any different place than any other peice of road. Its simply where the school tells a bus to stop. The only rules relating to it are traffic rules regarding the bus itself.
 

LaMidRighter

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I guess where we're disagreeing is whether or not it had anything to do with school. I remember reading that it happened right by a school bus stop. Sans that, I would agree with you.
The school does not have any legal claim though, they may enforce rules within their property, of which a bus stop isn't, and when the kids are on school extra curricular trips, in which a parent signs off liability for their child for the duration of that trip. If the child broke the law by firing on others, let the police handle it.
 

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What rational adult would be so gung-ho to seriously harm a kid's life over something like this? Academically, what they want to do will be a huge setback. What sense is that?
 

CanadaJohn

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I guess where we're disagreeing is whether or not it had anything to do with school. I remember reading that it happened right by a school bus stop. Sans that, I would agree with you.

I would agree the school had a role, if the child shooting the gun and the children being hit were both on the school bus at the time or one just leaving the bus. In that case, all the children involved would still be within the area of responsibility of the school, since the bus is either owned by or contracted by the school district. However, if the child shooting was not in the school's care, I don't agree that the school has a role in discipline. To think they do, would be to believe that the school should discipline a student who picks a fight with another student at the mall on the weekend. In order to be able to exercise authority, you have to be in a position to accept responsibility as well. If the school is not taking responsibility for all misdeeds of students 24/7 then they have no authority to discipline them when not their responsibility.

We can agree, no doubt, that the kids probably lacked proper supervision and the mom seems not to understand what parenting involves, but that still doesn't give the school the free hand to move in and exert its will.
 
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CanadaJohn

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They SHOULD be suspending kids who might be dangerous to other students.

Not from where I sit - should they have the authority to insist on suspension of students who aren't registered in their school? What if the child shooting wasn't one of their students? Do they just look away? No, they contact the authorities and have them deal with it and if the child is charged in some way then they could look at suspension as most every school does.

Clearly, we don't know all the issues with these children - they may be holy terrors at the school and this is just one other example and then they may be justified - but in isolation, I'm opposed to school staff trying to take the place of parents out of the school's range of authority.
 
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