Best of the post WWII Presidents

[faithful_servant]

I'm sorry : (

No worries.... just picking fly-specks out of the pepper...

 

[Dittohead not!]

I don't excuse Congress in all that, not at all, but Reagan pushed it hard and rode it for all it was worth. Inexcusable in my mind of today. I think it's reasonable to presume that those things would not have taken on the life they did without Reagan's advocacy.

I do give him credit for "beating" the Soviets in the Cold War. While it would have happened eventually anyway, I think, he helped speed it along and made it happen faster than it would have otherwise.

Agreed. The arms race, which is another thing Reagan supported and pushed, ran the Soviets into bankruptcy before it ran the US the same direction. That's what really brought down the Soviet Union - their shaky economic system and the strain the arms race put on it.

 

[Cyrylek]

By the method of exclusion - starting with the very worst (Nixon and LBJ), I have ended up with predictable "I like Ike", Reagan being not far behind. Strangely, this appears to be, more or less, the majority vote.

 

[Cyrylek]

Agreed. The arms race, which is another thing Reagan supported and pushed, ran the Soviets into bankruptcy before it ran the US the same direction. That's what really brought down the Soviet Union - their shaky economic system and the strain the arms race put on it.

A totalitarian system cannot be defeated by economic means. To periphrase Bill Clinton, "Economy doesn't matter, stupid". (Look at North Korea). What Reagan (and Thatcher, and John Paul II) did - each in their own way - was to present the Kremlin with a challenge the Kremlin was not ready for. The Soviet elites panicked, started "reforming" the un-reformable idiotic (economically speaking, from the Western point of view) structure, and everything quickly fell apart, and the rest is history.

Does Ronald Reagan deserve credit? Absolutely. As the Russian joke goes, if Carter were re-elected, Brezhnev would be still alive. But all he and his cohort really did was to insist on the superiority of the Western liberal constitutional democracy, as compared to the most hideous political pathology in the whole history of human race.

There are, after all, some elementary truths, "absolutes". Apparently, it takes a huge hero - or at least a "charismatic leader" - to make us remember that.

 

[Dittohead not!]

A totalitarian system cannot be defeated by economic means. To periphrase Bill Clinton, "Economy doesn't matter, stupid". (Look at North Korea). What Reagan (and Thatcher, and John Paul II) did - each in their own way - was to present the Kremlin with a challenge the Kremlin was not ready for. The Soviet elites panicked, started "reforming" the un-reformable idiotic (economically speaking, from the Western point of view) structure, and everything quickly fell apart, and the rest is history.

Does Ronald Reagan deserve credit? Absolutely. As the Russian joke goes, if Carter were re-elected, Brezhnev would be still alive. But all he and his cohort really did was to insist on the superiority of the Western liberal constitutional democracy, as compared to the most hideous political pathology in the whole history of human race.

There are, after all, some elementary truths, "absolutes". Apparently, it takes a huge hero - or at least a "charismatic leader" - to make us remember that.

I think it was defeated by economic means, and not by Reagan telling Gorbachev to "tear down that wall." Totalitarian leaders don't respond well to commands from other world leaders.

Surely, Kim Jung Un understands the superiority of liberal constitutional democracy, having attended school in Europe, but he doesn't seem anxious to bring that democracy to his people.

 

[Phys251]

Eisenhower--The last great Republican. Interstate highways. 'Nuff said.

JFK--His masterful handling of the Cuban Missile Crisis rewrote the history books. It is a real shame he didn't live a lot longer.

LBJ--One of the worst foreign policies ever and best domestic policies ever, though the latter would indeed cost the Democrats the South for more than a generation. A lot more.

Nixon--As faithful servant said, had it not been for Watergate, Nixon would have been regarded as a very solid president. But he was a founding architect of the war on drugs, an arguably greater sin than Watergate.

Ford--Not a bad president but he never really got a chance.

Carter--Modern-day Republicans' favorite punching bag, he got dealt a horrible hand and just didn't play it right.

Reagan--The most overrated president in US history, bar-none. Jacking up the national debt? Check. Gross negligence of the AIDS crisis? Check. A major scandal for which the president went unpunished? Check. Poor management of the crack cocaine epidemic and the resulting crime wave, which many people conveniently forget is worse than recent crime trends? Check. Reagan instituted the beginning of the end of the American middle class, and we have yet to undo most of the damage he caused.

H.W. Bush--Not a terrible president but way too aloof. His "How has the national debt personally affected each of your lives" debate blunder summed this up perfectly.

Clinton--Overrated but not by nearly as much as Reagan. An absolutely brilliant politician who knew how to get things done.

W. Bush--Indisputably the worst president in the last 40+ years. If his dad was aloof, then W. Bush was so far divorced from reality that he might has well been on a 24/7 acid trip.

Obama--His naive desire to work with a party that proved to be about as loathsome and vile as an opposition party can be greatly impeded the legacy of his first two years in office. His best days have been the ones where he received little to no Congressional support.

 

[Jredbaron96]

What if I think Ford was the best and Johnson the worst? How do I vote? :mrgreen:

You no vote! Leave thread! No come back!

 

[SenorXm/Sirius]

Bush was saddled with 9-11 and a dot.com bust left over by Clinton policies. The wars which the American people first supported was a bust and continues today.
Obama is just plain clueless on just about everything. In my opinion he is the worst president of the bunch with Carter a close second.

Funny how Bush gets a pass because he was 'saddled' with Clintons policies, wars and economic bubble bursting, but Obama doesn't get a pass for being saddled with Bush's policies, failed wars and economy bursting.

Strange how that worked out.

Anyway my vote for the best is Ike. 2nd best... Bush 1. 3rd... Clinton

Worse, by far... Bush 2

 

[SenorXm/Sirius]

Reagan is a tough one to rate.

He was a great leader, which this country needed at the time. After Vietnam, and Watergate, and the oil crisis, and hostages taken in Iran, and on and on the country needed a good, strong leader. And that's what Reagan was.

Many of his policies though, especially economic policies were brutally bad. Some of his policies have almost destroyed the Middle Class. They were truly 'VooDoo economics'. Supply side economics has been proven not to work over and over. But the GOP still holds onto those failed policies, and that is now Reagan's true legacy.

 

[radcen]

Reagan is a tough one to rate.

He was a great leader, which this country needed at the time. After Vietnam, and Watergate, and the oil crisis, and hostages taken in Iran, and on and on the country needed a good, strong leader. And that's what Reagan was.

Many of his policies though, especially economic policies were brutally bad. Some of his policies have almost destroyed the Middle Class. They were truly 'VooDoo economics'. Supply side economics has been proven not to work over and over. But the GOP still holds onto those failed policies, and that is now Reagan's true legacy.

And I agree with your first point. We DID need that morale boost at the time. Desperately.

But, like you say, there are too many other legacies that we are paying deeply for now.

As far as the GOP holding onto them, that baffles me. The only think I can think of is that because he was so popular then any fall-out is worth it because being "right" and being in power is preferable to just being actually right.

 

[Van Basten]

Overall, Eisenhower.

Domestically, LBJ.

Foreign, between Truman and Eisenhower.

Carter was ****.

JFK was solid and inspiring.

Reagan is a tough one to rate.

He was a great leader, which this country needed at the time. After Vietnam, and Watergate, and the oil crisis, and hostages taken in Iran, and on and on the country needed a good, strong leader. And that's what Reagan was.

Many of his policies though, especially economic policies were brutally bad. Some of his policies have almost destroyed the Middle Class. They were truly 'VooDoo economics'. Supply side economics has been proven not to work over and over. But the GOP still holds onto those failed policies, and that is now Reagan's true legacy.

Always nice when people view Reagan as more than one-dimensional.

I have a lot respect for his avowed anti-communism.

But yeah, his economics sucked. And he only further enabled the religious right.

 

[DA60]

Simple...none.

They were all failures...just to different extents.

For example, GWB was one of the worst and his Dad was one of the least worst.

 

[Abbazorkzog]

 

[DA60]

It both amazes and saddens me that he gave that incredible military industrial complex warning. And, despite him being such a celebrated general, nobody seemed to hear it...or the powers that be are trying desperately to forget it.

 

[Crovax]

It both amazes and saddens me that he gave that incredible military industrial complex warning. And, despite him being such a celebrated general, nobody seemed to hear it...or the powers that be are trying desperately to forget it.

Our military has been getting smaller and smaller

Maybe Ike should have warned out about the dangers of entitlements

 

[DA60]

Our military has been getting smaller and smaller

Maybe Ike should have warned out about the dangers of entitlements

It should be getting smaller...much smaller.

Ike spoke during the middle of a dangerous Cold War...which is long gone.

There are no direct threats to American sovereignty now.
ISIL is nothing (no navy or Air Force) and no one would dare attack America with nukes.
There is no need for remotely the present size of the Armed Forces...it is being continued by the Military Industrial Complex.

The Founding Fathers wanted a military that was based in a small, regular army and a large militia. That is the way it should be now.

I will not debate this for the Founding Fathers were strongly against large, standing armies...and they were dead right.

'And it was this fear of standing armies that led the founders to prefer the citizen-soldier to the professional. “When we assumed the Soldier,” said Washington, “we did not lay aside the Citizen.” And from Jefferson: “Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case with the Greeks and Romans, and must be that of every free state.” They were not anti-military; far from it. Rather, they were anti-militaristic and anti-interventionist, preferring active, regular commercial and diplomatic engagement, not military involvement, with the rest of the world.'

Why the Founding Fathers Would Object to Today’s Military - Defense One


Good day.

 

[Dittohead not!]

Our military has been getting smaller and smaller

Maybe Ike should have warned out about the dangers of entitlements

Social security is paid for in advance, as is Medicare.
Moreover, "entitlements", however you define that term, do not encourage military adventurism.

 

[antiquity]

Funny how Bush gets a pass because he was 'saddled' with Clintons policies, wars and economic bubble bursting, but Obama doesn't get a pass for being saddled with Bush's policies, failed wars and economy bursting.

Strange how that worked out.

Even with 911 and the DOT.com bubble accruing it only took months for the economy to rebound under Bush..it has taken Obama 71/2 years even considering he had a super majority in both houses for his first two years and we still are struggling with a weak economy and no real working foreign policy.

Do you know who said the following and when?

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop WMD and missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's WMD program."

Some other quotes....

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild this chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members...It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons.' Sen Hillary Clinton (D NY), Oct 10 2002.

The first two quotes were by Bill Clinton in Feb 1998. So yes Bush was saddled with intelligence passed down from Clinton and Clinton's appointed head of the CIA..George Tenet.

Hillary just fell in line with her husband, Slick Willy.

 

[antiquity]

Eisenhower sign the SEATO treaties that committed the US to fight in Vietnam. He also directed the first military advisors to enter Vietnam to fulfill that commitment. So what he said above is a little hypocritical.

 

[SenorXm/Sirius]

Even with 911 and the DOT.com bubble accruing it only took months for the economy to rebound under Bush..it has taken Obama 71/2 years even considering he had a super majority in both houses for his first two years and we still are struggling with a weak economy and no real working foreign policy.

Do you know who said the following and when?




Some other quotes....



The first two quotes were by Bill Clinton in Feb 1998. So yes Bush was saddled with intelligence passed down from Clinton and Clinton's appointed head of the CIA..George Tenet.

Hillary just fell in line with her husband, Slick Willy.

So Bush lies and failed wars were Clinton's fault. That's where you are going here?

My God, the party of self responsibility just LOVES blaming everyone else.

Bush and Cheney HAD current intel from all sorts of agencies, from the US, and from all over the world. For YOU to blame Bush f'ups on what Bill Clinton said YEARS before 2003 is disgusting, and very sad, and very telling on why conservatives are the most hypocritical demo in the country.

Self responsibility indeed.. lol

 

[radcen]

So Bush lies and failed wars were Clinton's fault. That's where you are going here?

My God, the party of self responsibility just LOVES blaming everyone else.

Bush and Cheney HAD current intel from all sorts of agencies, from the US, and from all over the world. For YOU to blame Bush f'ups on what Bill Clinton said YEARS before 2003 is disgusting, and very sad, and very telling on why conservatives are the most hypocritical demo in the country.

Self responsibility indeed.. lol

Are you saying the Dems are NOT a party of self-responsibility?

 

[SenorXm/Sirius]

Are you saying the Dems are NOT the party a self-responsibility?

IDK, when I was growing up Republicans preached self responsibility constantly. But now? They blame the Dems. for their F'ups. Or they blame Clinton. I love that one. According to cons pointing out Bush's screw-ups is no longer allowed because he's no longer president. But they can go back to Clinton!!

And they mostly blame the media. Joe Republican politician gets caught with his pants around his ankles in a mens room, but it's the media fault for reporting it.

IDK, maybe it's me. I'm old. I just I just don't understand what has happened to the 'self responsibility' Republican Party.

 

[Abbazorkzog]

Eisenhower sign the SEATO treaties that committed the US to fight in Vietnam. He also directed the first military advisors to enter Vietnam to fulfill that commitment. So what he said above is a little hypocritical.

Well, he was part of the military-industrial complex that he ended up coming out against in the end, so no, it is not.

 

[Jredbaron96]

So I'm guessing you're a Clinton fan

 

[Abbazorkzog]

So I'm guessing you're a Clinton fan

...................................................................................I hope you're being sarcastic.